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  1. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. There are actually three different studies being discussed in this thread. 1. Wang et al, who heated pg, vg, e-liquid in a steel tube reactor, and detected volatile compounds beginning around 450F and spiking above 470F. 2. Evolv collected data from...
  2. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    This is entirely a guess but, at some point the rate at which you're vaporizing liquid will surpass the rate at which your wick can supply the liquid. Maybe at that point the temperature spikes so high that you bypass the boiling point and reach the thermal breakdown point?
  3. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    If they would just run the same tests that Kurt discussed in the second video, but with tc mods at various temperatures, we'd have a lot more answers.
  4. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    PG boils at ~370F, but you're saying that unlike water, it will heat up to 500F before vaporizing? How does that work? Is the pot/water mass ratio much different from the coil/liquid surrounding the coil ratio? I'm not a scientist, but that doesn't sound right.
  5. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    Right. And we kind of assume that's how our devices work right, we're taking the liquid to the boiling point and it turns to vapor then condenses back into an aerosol, though there may be more going on there. I don't know the boiling point of a 50/50 pg/vg mix but let's say it's somewhere...
  6. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    Which part?
  7. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    Please don't panic just yet. It's really not as if we don't have ANY information with kanthal. We have a number of studies, all using devices running either kanthal or nichrome, all saying(when you get down to the actual data) that the compounds we're concerned with aren't created until you...
  8. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    There was a test where vg was heated, in a steel tube, and at 470F we see the big spike in compounds produced. Then there's separate data showing that vapers routinely get their coils above 470F in certain situations. These two separate things together form the theory that vapers are heating the...
  9. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    From the second video, Kurt says that VG with 10% distilled water lowers the boiling point of the solution to something like 180C(can't remember exactly), so, my guess is that unless you're actually vaping pure VG with nothing in it at all, the boiling point is lower than 290C.
  10. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    My question isn't whether or not the coil reaches 410F, or rather ~470F, it's if the coil reaches 470F during regular use(not dry hit conditions) does the liquid itself reach 470F where it would spike in production of formaldehyde, etc.
  11. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    It seems like the range from the start of #2 to the start of #1 is very small.
  12. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    Either there are a whole lot of vapers routinely inhaling significant levels of some pretty nasty stuff without noticing it, or there is a disconnect between what a tc mod says is 500F(or whatever) and the actual temperature the liquid is reaching, or some other possibility that I haven't...
  13. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    I finally got around to watching the second video, the one with Kurt. What I take from it is, CE4's are really bad to test with. One, they're becoming less and less popular, two, they don't perform all that well in optimal conditions(probably the reason for One), three, they perform even worse...
  14. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    What would be fantastic as a follow up study, would be to actually measure the presence of the aldehydes using a tc mod running at say 500F. And run it through a range of temps.
  15. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    You're probably right, I just hope that there will be enough variety to satisfy as many people as possible.
  16. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    My fear is that people will take this information and start jumping to conclusions, as people are wont to do. It's already come up a few times in this thread. "Oh no! How do I know if I'm safe?!" Of course, the actual answer is you don't REALLY know, however, you can make a pretty good...
  17. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    Keep in mind that just because your TC mod tells you the coil temperature is 500F, that doesn't necessarily mean that you are heating all, or any, of your liquid to 500F.
  18. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    You are right, but the two studies are not completely separate. What can be interpreted from the subtank study is that that particular tank, with that coil and at that wattage is not reaching the temperatures necessary to create the compounds being measured at meaningful levels, in spite of the...
  19. Lessifer

    New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers

    I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm upset that this exists, or that you've shared this information, or that I'm dismissing it. Information like this is the kind of information we need. What I will have a problem with is how this information may be used, especially given that it is far...
  20. Lessifer

    Some common sense words from Dr Farsalinos

    I'll admit that I didn't think about this until you brought it up. It would appear that Dr. F has though, he didn't call for the labels to be changed. "Besides the regulators, who will do their job, the responsible part of the e-cigarette industry must immediately target and expel these members...
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