200 Watt Mods Battery Safety

[Hyperspace]

There is a huge discussion about battery safety in the SXMini Q thread that really should include all 200 watts or more mods that use 2 18650 batteries, so I thought I'd start a new thread about them.

So far I have found:

Athena Hero 240W TC Mod uses 3 batteries
ijoy Asolo 200w TC Mod
iPV3 Li 200W TC Mod
iPV5 200W TC Mod
Joye Cuboid 200W TC Mod
Kanger KBOX 200W Mod
KangSiDe 200W TC Mod
Laisimo L1 200W TC Mod
Laisimo S3 200W TC Mod
Sigelei FUCHAI 200W TC Mod
smok Koopor Plus 200W TC Mod
smok R200W TC Mod
Snow Wolf 200W TC Mod
Tesla 200W TC Mod
Tesla Invader III 240W TC Mod
YIHI SXMini Q 200W TC Mod

If anyone knows of more please add them.

 

[cobalt327]

Smoktech Smok R200

 

[Hyperspace]

Smoktech Smok R200

Thanks I added it.

 

[Hyperspace]

I thought I'd include what BigEgo said about using 2 18650 batteries in a 200 watt mod to get the discussion going.

Mooch has made this clear numerous times in his posts when discussing "pulse ratings." As he says, there is no standard anywhere in the literature for a so-called "pulse rating." It can vary from manufacturer to manufacturer.

Look, I am not saying a veteran vaper who knows which batteries to buy (30A cdr) will have any issues. As was said, these batteries can safely handle a pulse higher than the cdr. The problem comes when a new vaper runs out and buys a couple of LG 3000mAh batteries with a 20A cdr and tries to use them. Or worse, they buy an Efest or another rewrap claiming to be 40A when it's in reality a 15A battery.

Oh, but the vape shop will stop that from happening, right? Nope. The vape shop employees mostly have no clue and are happy to sell whichever cheap rewrapped battery they have behind the counter.

I have no problem with 200w or 500w or 1kw as long as the mod and board are designed for it and include a built in battery (this is why Evolv went with a Lipo pack). If yihi wants to release a 200W board, they need to make it 3 18650 or a Lipo device. I expect such shenanigans from Joyetech, but not from Yihi.

 

[retird]

Mooch knows his stuff.....

Last paragraph pretty well sums it up for any 200 watt device using 2 cells.

 

[Xexist]

If anyone knows of more please add them.

Cuboid (after firmware upgrade)

 

[Hyperspace]

Cuboid (after firmware upgrade)

Thanks, I thought I read somewhere the Cuboid will go to 200W but couldn't find it.

 

[BigEgo]

I got quoted, so I'll chime in and just basically repeat what I said in that quote. 2 18650's cannot truly handle 200w safely, so either the manufacturers are lying about offering 200w or they are going to be putting their users at risk.

As I said, 2 real 30A cdr batteries could perhaps handle it, but the battery life will suck and you always have to worry about a new user buying cheap rewrap 15A batteries and throwing them in there.

A little math:

200w/8.4v = 23.8A (fully charged battery)

200w/7.4v = 27A (Nominal voltage)

200w/6.4v = 31.3A (low battery)

So, as you can see, a true 30A battery would probably be OK, but on a low battery you are still slightly above the CDR rating. And these numbers are not what will happen in reality since there's voltage sag and inefficiency, so it's probably worse than this.

 

[faeriekitsune]

I can't remember where I saw it, but there's a theory that these 200W mods, especially the ones with cheaper chips are actually pulsing to get the 200W rather than a continuous discharge. Would that affect the current opinion?

 

[WickedWicks]

I'd wish every manufacturer would offer an option to set an upper power limit like e.g. Dicodes Mods have. This way we could choose from a wider range of batteries while still be in their particular safety zone.

Ok that's slightly OT, but at least it would serve those with legitimate concerns.

 

[Hyperspace]

I can't remember where I saw it, but there's a theory that these 200W mods, especially the ones with cheaper chips are actually pulsing to get the 200W rather than a continuous discharge. Would that affect the current opinion?

I'm not a battery expert but according to them pulsing to get 200W is still not safe. There's a huge discussion about that in this thread. SXmini Q Class Powered by YiHi SX450 chip

I think the 200W option is just a rating to sell mods as I doubt many people will ever vape near that. It's kind of sad that these manufactures didn't stop at 150W and be happy with that. Or maybe they think a true 35A battery is in the works and their mods will be ready for it.

 

[Hyperspace]

I'd wish every manufacturer would offer an option to set an upper power limit like e.g. Dicodes Mods have. This way we could choose from a wider range of batteries while still be in their particular safety zone.

Ok that's slightly OT, but at least it would serve those with legitimate concerns.

I agree with you. You can still use a wide range of batteries in these 200W mods as long as you know the limitations of the batteries you're using.

 

[Vlad1]

I thought I'd include what BigEgo said about using 2 18650 batteries in a 200 watt mod to get the discussion going.

Not exactly sure what context @Mooch was discussing in that post or why he'd suggest they needed built in batteries, maybe he could chime in here. But one of the reasons Evolv went with 3 cell lipo is because that was their intended design. Being at a maximum 23A input current and unable to utilize the full potential of today's 30A+ batteries requires more than 2 series 18650 or 8.4V in order for them to achieve 200W so 3 cells in series was required.


And to add to the list?
Tesla Invader III 240W

 

[Wingsfan0310]

I'm guessing since these manufacturers thinks a 200 watt two 18650 mods are possible or a good idea. We are going to see single 18650 100 watt mods flooding the market. I'm being facetious. I think both are ridiculous. Just one more reason for the FDA to step in because of safety concerns . Can't manufacturers do simple math. If you can at most squeeze out 75 out of one. How do you decide you can get 200 out of two. I guess it's called marketing department math (2 x 75= 200). What a joke.

 

[Hyperspace]

I'm guessing since these manufacturers thinks a 200 watt two 18650 mods are possible or a good idea. We are going to see single 18650 100 watt mods flooding the market. I'm being facetious. I think both are ridiculous. Just one more reason for the FDA to step in because of safety concerns . Can't manufacturers do simple math. If you can at most squeeze out 75 out of one. How do you decide you can get 200 out of two. I guess it's called marketing department math (2 x 75= 200). What a joke.

Yeah I think these 200W or more mod manufactures are going to push the FDA to start regulating them. It's a shame because it all could be avoided if they stayed 150W max. Who needs 200 Watts anyway?

 

[BigEgo]

Not exactly sure what context @Mooch was discussing in that post or why he'd suggest they needed built in batteries, maybe he could chime in here. But one of the reasons Evolv went with 3 cell lipo is because that was their intended design. Being at a maximum 23A input current and unable to utilize the full potential of today's 30A+ batteries requires more than 2 series 18650 or 8.4V in order for them to achieve 200W so 3 cells in series was required.


And to add to the list?
Tesla Invader III 240W

It was me quoting Mooch about battery pulse ratings. Mooch has said there's no industry standard for what a "pulse" is -- some manufacturers may consider 30 seconds a "pulse" while others might be a minute, while still others might just be a few seconds. This is why he is now considering doing pulse ratings in his own tests as they relate to vaping. The problem is figuring out how long the pulse needs to be. It will be arbitrary, but perhaps it will give us a decent ballpark.

 

[skiball]

Opps forget that Athena hero 240 uses 3 batteries

 

[Hyperspace]

Athena hero 240 could be added to the list.

I looked that one up and it takes 3 18650 batteries but I can add it to the list because 240W sounds unsafe for 3 batteries.

 

[skiball]

I looked that one up and it takes 3 18650 batteries but I can add it to the list because 240W sounds unsafe for 3 batteries.

Ya i edited my post same time you posted but ya 240w is insane.

 

[edyle]

If anyone knows of more please add them.

ijoy asolo 200w