3 different coils in air flow experiment...

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MortenOen

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This might be of general interest... :)
The video is about air flow on different surface cylinders in an air flow chamber. My findings are observational and anecdotal, not scientific. But my hypothesis is slowly turning into a theory. Flow comes in from the right, vacuum cleaner sucks from the top.
Please behave and use viable arguments when commenting :)

 

Walee

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Really enjoyed the video. I was introduced to the weird world of airflow and constant velocity in the process of designing and manufacturing oxygen generators. We used a molecular sieve and pressure swing absorption technology. Many of the postulates are similar to vaping. My biggest take away was how counter intuitive everything worked to my way of thinking. Amazing discipline.
 

Alien Traveler

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This might be of general interest... :)
The video is about air flow on different surface cylinders in an air flow chamber. My findings are observational and anecdotal, not scientific. But my hypothesis is slowly turning into a theory. Flow comes in from the right, vacuum cleaner sucks from the top.
Please behave and use viable arguments when commenting :)


Sorry, I did not watch your video (I hate videos, especially long ones).
But as I understood (2 minutes of clicking at random points of recording) you are looking on empty coil, no wick. Wick will change everything.
Anyway, I like your setup.
 
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MortenOen

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alien Traveler" data-source="post: 20225737" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">
alien Traveler said:
Sorry, I did not watch your video (I hate videos, especially long ones).
But as I understood (2 minutes of clicking at random points of recording) you are looking on empty coil, no wick. Wick will change everything.
Anyway, I like your setup.
Hmmm... Sorry, but I can't see how the wick changes the surface of the coil ;-)
 

MortenOen

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Really enjoyed the video. I was introduced to the weird world of airflow and constant velocity in the process of designing and manufacturing oxygen generators. We used a molecular sieve and pressure swing absorption technology. Many of the postulates are similar to vaping. My biggest take away was how counter intuitive everything worked to my way of thinking. Amazing discipline.
Thanks for your input, Walee! It is indeed amazing!
 
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Walee

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@MortenOen A side note: Your post unlocked the secret of the Goon. Had this brass Goon for some time now and was never really impressed. Always pointed the airflow under the coils. Thought, Hmmmm... Discovered that you can simply take the coiling rod and press it down against the ledges of the build deck and the coil is directly centered in front of the air holes. Best vape I've ever had off this thing. Don't tell anybody. It's a great little secret.
 
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MortenOen

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@MortenOen A side note: Your post unlocked the secret of the Goon. Had this brass Goon for some time now and was never really impressed. Always pointed the airflow under the coils. Thought, Hmmmm... Discovered that you can simply take the coiling rod and press it down against the ledges of the build deck and the coil is directly centered in front of the air holes. Best vape I've ever had off this thing. Don't tell anybody. It's a great little secret.

I have had the same experience with several RDAs since I first saw the air flow direction. Now I never have gunk on my coils, never burned cotton, and fantastic flavor. I have tested several new RDAs, and will include air flow footage when I review them, so this will not be a secret for too long :) Enjoy!
 

Paul Mohr

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It is a cool little experiment and it sounds like he spent some quality time with his little girl teaching her about science, so my hats off to him. What a cool dad. A lot of that information is on the internet already though with computer generated models.

However I didn't see the point behind the video and how it applied to vaping. I was expecting to see some air flow tests with actual atomizers while under power. Maybe some CFM and heat numbers as well. The test didn't account for real life air flow in a particular atomizer, or take into account the heat generated by it or the fact that it is boiling off liquid while the air is flowing around it. All of these would effect the dynamics of the air flow.

And again, I never saw where the point to all of that was. Maybe he said and I missed it? Was he trying to say one type of coil has better flavor, or produces more vapor or what?

I have tested various different coil designs by actually putting them in an atomizer and vaping them. My findings were it really didn't make much difference, if any at all. All I found was the fancy coils used more wire, took more time and effort to make, used more battery and juice. Some do produce more vapor to my eye, but I have no way to actually measure vapor volume. And I can't say for sure if it was due to the coil design or just the fact that those kind of coils tend to have a lower resistance and you end up running more power through them.

I have found that the design of the atomizer has way more to do with flavor than the coil you use. With the kayfun designs being very hard to beat. And good luck getting one of those fancy coils in the deck of one of those tank designs lol.

Now if you are cloud chasing and using an RTA with a big open deck and vaping at 40 watts or more then ya, go for it. I don't know that they really work any better than a larger diameter round wire that would have equal resistance, but they sure do look pretty.
 

Paul Mohr

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I didn't realize that was actually your video Morten lol. I thought it was just something you linked to on the internet. Sorry I kept referring to you as "he". Had I known that was you in the video I would have asked you specific questions rather than making general assumptions. I also re read my post and came off as being kind of rude, that was not my intent and I apologize for the general tone of it.

And like I said, I love that you got your daughter involved with it. Very cool of you.
 
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MortenOen

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It is a cool little experiment and it sounds like he spent some quality time with his little girl teaching her about science, so my hats off to him. What a cool dad. A lot of that information is on the internet already though with computer generated models.

However I didn't see the point behind the video and how it applied to vaping. I was expecting to see some air flow tests with actual atomizers while under power. Maybe some CFM and heat numbers as well. The test didn't account for real life air flow in a particular atomizer, or take into account the heat generated by it or the fact that it is boiling off liquid while the air is flowing around it. All of these would effect the dynamics of the air flow.

And again, I never saw where the point to all of that was. Maybe he said and I missed it? Was he trying to say one type of coil has better flavor, or produces more vapor or what?

I have tested various different coil designs by actually putting them in an atomizer and vaping them. My findings were it really didn't make much difference, if any at all. All I found was the fancy coils used more wire, took more time and effort to make, used more battery and juice. Some do produce more vapor to my eye, but I have no way to actually measure vapor volume. And I can't say for sure if it was due to the coil design or just the fact that those kind of coils tend to have a lower resistance and you end up running more power through them.

I have found that the design of the atomizer has way more to do with flavor than the coil you use. With the kayfun designs being very hard to beat. And good luck getting one of those fancy coils in the deck of one of those tank designs lol.

Now if you are cloud chasing and using an RTA with a big open deck and vaping at 40 watts or more then ya, go for it. I don't know that they really work any better than a larger diameter round wire that would have equal resistance, but they sure do look pretty.

Hi Paul, and thanks for calling me a cool dad :)

This is an ongoing series. I can't repeat everything I have said in all of my videos every time I make a new one. This is a "part 2" on flat wire coils vs clapton coils. My expressed goal in all my videos is better flavor, starting with the first video "flat wire coil tutorial". I touch on every aspect of vaping, I have simulated flows in RDAs with multiple flows and coils, but this time I wanted to look at flow, drag, heat exchange at the slow speeds over different coils.
I agree that the RDA itself is most important regarding flavor, that's why most of my videos are on that subject. This last one was on the properties of the coils itself, to see how well air flow passed around the different designs. Because, the more eficient the cooling is, the hotter you can run the coil, and the more vapor and flavor you can get out of it.
All the flaws you have pointed out are commented in the video. This is purely anecdotal "evidence", indicating that clapton coils have separation points in very slow air flows (less than 20mph), but that smooth surface coils benefits from the Coanda effect.
If you have links to computer simulation that shows flow over cylinders with different surfaces or trip wires at air speeds in the 5-20 mph range, I will be extremely happy if you could post a link. I have not found such simulations myself.
Cheers!
 
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MortenOen

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I didn't realize that was actually your video Morten lol. I thought it was just something you linked to on the internet. Sorry I kept referring to you as "he". Had I known that was you in the video I would have asked you specific questions rather than making general assumptions. I also re read my post and came off as being kind of rude, that was not my intent and I apologize for the general tone of it.

And like I said, I love that you got your daughter involved with it. Very cool of you.

That's ok. No offence taken :) Look at my other answer!
 
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Paul Mohr

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Thank you for the additional information. I will have to look at the rest of your videos, sound interesting.

As for videos or computer models that specific, no I can't think of any honestly. I was talking about general airflow over a sphere or a wing, fairly basic stuff. I found some a while back while researching airsoft stuff. People looking to make a better BB or seeing how the "hop up" or back spin effects trajectory and range.

Based on your response it sounds like you know way more about this than I do lol.
 
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MortenOen

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Nov 16, 2016
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Thank you for the additional information. I will have to look at the rest of your videos, sound interesting.

As for videos or computer models that specific, no I can't think of any honestly. I was talking about general airflow over a sphere or a wing, fairly basic stuff. I found some a while back while researching airsoft stuff. People looking to make a better BB or seeing how the "hop up" or back spin effects trajectory and range.

Based on your response it sounds like you know way more about this than I do lol.

Yeah, I came up empty on such videos myself. It seems wind tunnels don't run tests below 80 km/h or 50mph. This I think is a too low of a Reynolds number (Re) to be of interest to anyone but us. And it was the only reason that I built the new chamber. I had to see if the statement "below 55 mph the surface of the cylinder has no influence on the coanda effect or separation points" was true. All the experts takes this for granted. And it is not true.

M-)
 
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Paul Mohr

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Yes you are probably correct, most of what I have seen were at much higher speeds. Airsoft bb's are going to be between 300-500 fps.

I watched some of your other videos and our vaping styles are completely opposite of each other lol. I like restricted airflow tanks at lower wattages. You are doing some very interesting stuff though. I am also impressed you do your videos in English as opposed to your native language. Sometimes it seems as if you are struggling to find the right words, don't worry about it. Your english is very good and you do a fantastic job saying what you want to say in a way anyone can understand. I love how you pronounce your V's as W's, don't change that. It is part of your character and I like it.
 

MortenOen

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Yes you are probably correct, most of what I have seen were at much higher speeds. Airsoft bb's are going to be between 300-500 fps.

I watched some of your other videos and our vaping styles are completely opposite of each other lol. I like restricted airflow tanks at lower wattages. You are doing some very interesting stuff though. I am also impressed you do your videos in English as opposed to your native language. Sometimes it seems as if you are struggling to find the right words, don't worry about it. Your english is very good and you do a fantastic job saying what you want to say in a way anyone can understand. I love how you pronounce your V's as W's, don't change that. It is part of your character and I like it.

Now you are just making me self conscious... :)

After discovering the flat wire coils I have gone down from 120W to 45-55W. And I have often reduced air flow if I have to use standard 22g-24g wire because of space restrictions. Because of the air flow discoveries, I have found out that a lot of my RDAs have to have the coils in a very specific place, and to be of a very specific outer diameter and length to fit into that place. And these restrictions often results in the need for restricted air flow. But I don't like hot or dense vapor. I build for the medium to higher taste notes, and for luke warm vapor, and lots and lots of it.
A side benefit of this wire-coil-air flow-thingy, is very long battery life, no more burnt cotton or gunk on the coils, and a much richer and slightly cooler vapor. So you are absolutely right. I am building and experimenting for myself and my own taste, and that might not be everyones cup of tea!
And yes, I find it all very interesting too :)
 
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