A business question about and for ecig suppliers.

[glassmanoak]

A business question about and for ecig suppliers.

When I started vaping about a year ago, I started using a vendor, a small vendor (who will remain nameless) with good prices and excellent customer service. We became good “acquaintances” and kept in touch via email. They were very helpful and went “above and beyond” to help educate me in ecigs and ejuice.
…..I hadn’t heard from them for a while, which is unusual, then I got an email detailing a problem with their business gateway. This is the problem:
….We NEVER had a charge back, dispute, nothing in the two years with Authorize, then Boom! ( we get this notice ) ”Oh, btw, we know it says so on your application, and we put the description ‘e-cig and related’ in your account’s product description our selves, but it violates our policy, so you got 30 days.”
…..Can you imagine having your Merchant account abruptly cancelled in 30 days for NO reason. This has just got to throw a small business with NO recourse into a complete tizzy!
…..They hustled and started another account with S******* Bankcard at ****** Bank, but why should they have to?? Why are Paypal and other gateways so Anti-ecig? Maybe I’m just totally naïve, but I thought ecigs were a good part of smoking cessation. Hell, you can pay for all kinds of bogus crap using Paypal and credit cards!!
[FONT="]….. What am I missing? I know ecigs threaten Big Tobacco, is that it? I know they threaten Big Drugs (read Chantix, patches, et al), is that it? Is it Big Government? Someone, just please give me a clue![/FONT]

PS. I obscured the bank name at a moderators request

 

[zuzette]

i can't answer your question but if you made the paperweight in your avatar...its beautiful.

 

[glassmanoak]

i can't answer your question but if you made the paperweight in your avatar...its beautiful.

Thanks very much. It is a picture of a 14" platter that I made when I was doing glass

 

[steved5600]

Don't know exactly why. But if I had to guess it was a liability thing. Or some higher up is an anti-smoker fanatic and does not understand. Companies have a personality unique to them. Paypal is no different. I suppose it could also be a legal issue?.
Doesn't matter unless the Vape industry gets the same sort of lobbies like the Big tobacco concerns it will take an act of GOD to change their mind. Companies are hard headed. Paypal is a bit rigid. Remember it is a Bank. Lots of lawyers and Accountants. Not slamming those professions!!!!

 

[LongHaul]

Mostly just cryin "feel good" hippies that take the whole PC thing to disgusting levels that border on the communistic side of PC




Sent from my truck using 3 toasters a broken microwave and 6 rubber bands McGyver style......Chuck Norris aint got crap on me

 

[glassmanoak]

Mostly just cryin "feel good" hippies that take the whole PC thing to disgusting levels that border on the communistic side of PC

I don't know what you mean by "PC". Every hippie I ever met was all in favor of "free love, man" not shutting people down for doing and selling stuff like ecigs. Thanks

 

[SuziesMom]

I don't pretend to know anything about how credit card companies think, but it could be a higher fraud category that makes them averse to taking the risk. Computer dealers, adult sites, and other places have a different fee schedule because of the nature of their businesses.

Somehow, in some way, it's about the money, and protecting themselves.

 

[LongHaul]

I don't pretend to know anything about how credit card companies think, but it could be a higher fraud category that makes them averse to taking the risk. Computer dealers, adult sites, and other places have a different fee schedule because of the nature of their businesses.

Somehow, in some way, it's about the money, and protecting themselves.

Then the card company has a leak with certain parts of commerce. I used to do some things with PayPal and I NEVER saw a single card number or anything but a box marked paid and a address and this is how almost all of them work...so for them to say its a risk thing is complete crap to me..it's mostly for the same reason of not selling cigs. They don't want to be part of the lawsuit that someone brings forth hen they get sick because they can't take any responsibility in the actions that made them sick.




Sent from my truck using 3 toasters a broken microwave and 6 rubber bands McGyver style......Chuck Norris aint got crap on me

 

[RedForeman]

Can you imagine having your Merchant account abruptly cancelled in 30 days for NO reason. This has just got to throw a small busness with NO recourse into a complete tizzy![/B]

If running a small business was easy, everyone would do it.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal. Or go back on someone else's payroll.

 

[glassmanoak]

If running a small business was easy, everyone would do it.

Sometimes you just have to suck it up and deal. Or go back on someone else's payroll.

I agree, Red, but, somehow, I don't think that this is about the normal course of small business. With the actions of Paypal, then this.. it seems to be about something more (Conspiracy Theory proponent, I'm not!) But something seems to be going on.

 

[LongHaul]

I agree, Red, but, somehow, I don't think that this is about the normal course of small business. With the actions of Paypal, then this.. it seems to be about something more (Conspiracy Theory proponent, I'm not!) But something seems to be going on.

I'd just strike it up to the whole anti-smoking pseudo-intellectual brigades that pat themselves on the back each night cause they are saving the world nannyBloomburg style


Of course I'm a right wing nut job.....I believe in personal responsibility, NOT government responsibility...

 

[steved5600]

Arguing in a vacuum. Not going to get them to change. Let me accept the things I can not change. Change the things I can. Ain't going to change them. Try it you'll feel better. I had to give up beating my head against the wall. Nice thing is it feels real good when you stop. LOL
Not unless you storm the doors and take hostages. LOL
Sorry just wanting to get in some humor.

 

[RedForeman]

I'd just strike it up to the whole anti-smoking pseudo-intellectual brigades that pat themselves on the back each night cause they are saving the world nannyBloomburg style

Probably a little of that, along with a high than normal chargebacks from buyers of frequently defective, Chinese-made vaping supplies.

 

[glassmanoak]

Probably a little of that, along with a high than normal chargebacks from buyers of frequently defective, Chinese-made vaping supplies.

Maybe true, in general, but the particular supplier I started this thread about, never had a single chargeback in 2 years of business.

 

[xanderxman]

My take on the issue is that BP got inside the heads of the CC processors and "convinced" them to stop taking those types of transactions. I was never really a conspiracy theory kinda guy but the more I research and read about vaping and e-cigs, the more I start to become one. There is too much money to be made from the "smoking cessation" products that BP puts out for them to stand by while such an inexpensive and easy option is available. And they don't see one red cent of the money spent on vaping.

BP wins whether you quit smoking or not. They sell you the stuff that is supposed to make you quit and then, when you can't, they can sell you the drugs to prolong your cancer-ridden life. Those BP folks sure do have this one figured out.

 

[Kemosabe]

My take on the issue is that BP got inside the heads of the CC processors and "convinced" them to stop taking those types of transactions. I was never really a conspiracy theory kinda guy but the more I research and read about vaping and e-cigs, the more I start to become one. There is too much money to be made from the "smoking cessation" products that BP puts out for them to stand by while such an inexpensive and easy option is available. And they don't see one red cent of the money spent on vaping.

BP wins whether you quit smoking or not. They sell you the stuff that is supposed to make you quit and then, when you can't, they can sell you the drugs to prolong your cancer-ridden life. Those BP folks sure do have this one figured out.

i cant help but agree with this. its the sad but true reality. but i still think we've got a fighting chance.

one of, if not the favorite vendor of mine got the axe from Authorize in the exact fashion you speak of, OP. its bums me out to no end but all i do i just keep supporting vaping by buying tons of crap and hope the vendors can pull through.

 

[conflator]

Paypal has been a crapshoot since they started. They got traction being first, and being very easy to set up, but they've always had a reputation for freezing accounts for no apparent reason, no explanation and no recourse. I would never advise doing business with them.

Hard to know what goes on inside the credit card company's heads. They tend to shy away from anything anyone anywhere wants to paint as shady. They're number one concern is profit margins, so it's likely liability or chargeback concerns. Whether a particular vendor suffers from that or not is immaterial - it's a lot like insurance. One 18 year old driver might never have an accident. Ten thousand 18 year old drivers will have a higher than average number of accidents.

(Posted by a leftist business owner who is indifferent about hippies).

 

[glassmanoak]

My "acquaintance" contacted me recently and had this to say:


Nice thread you started there! Just to clarify (it gets SO confusing), the actual bank – S********* ....****** – is my merchant account and processor (in that they process and accept payments for me, then deposit them into my regular business checking). I’ve been with them all along, and they never had a problem with the type of business. It’s the GATEWAY processor (in this case, Authorize.net) the cancel me. In order to that credit cards online, you have to have at least two different accounts – the merchant/processor account, and a gateway account.

Oddly enough, it seems to be the GATEWAYS shutting people down. This is VERY curious because they never actually touch any money at all – nor are they at risk for any financial loses, chargebacks, nada. ALL they do is provide the secured “software” environment to accept the card information from me, then they query the cardholder’s bank for an approval code, tell me if it’s accepted, and send all that info to my merchant bank (in this case, S******** ....******). S******* ....**** collects the funds for deposit into my account.

What you hear most about are the gateways – FD***** is another big one. They thought they could take me here recently, but then came back and said “sorry.” I was skeptical to begin with because I had read to them shutting e-cig accounts too. I would definitely stay with S****** ....****** merchant services if I could, but they have to be certified by the gateways they work with, so in order to use another gateway, I need a merchant account that uses that gateway (still waiting on the word from the folks I’m working with – the longer it takes, the less hopeful I am – but I guess what I have now is better than nothing).
I agree with many of the thread posts – and I agree it’s primarily pharma pulling the strings. As someone who makes natural products using herbs and essential oils, I’ve followed FDA/Pharma antics for years. Remember when St. John’s Wort came out? Prozac sales started taking a nosedive. That’s when things got aggressive and it hasn’t stopped yet. They’ve been trying to gain control of natural products, supplements and therapies for decades (which, indecently, are often considered “high risk” merchant accounts as well …hmmm). You know anti groups, American Heart Assc and many of these other groups are largely funded by pharma?

Big Tobacco isn’t fighting this – they are watching and waiting. The e-cig is their golden egg in that it will ultimately save their industry, and they know it. When they jump on board, they have a whole new market, and get to keep their old customers. Pharama losses on every count – including their previously repeat life-long customers to BT.
Some years back, I ran across some documents published by one of the big pharmas – relative to their marketing strategies for the upcoming decade. I downloaded it, and I’m glad I did because it wasn’t available long after that. I was just looking for it, but my computer is organized chaos, so I’ll have to dig around for it some more. It’s a dry read, but if you get through it - it will curl your hair.

Incidently, it was ECF that suggested I not use names of banks, gateways, etc

 

[THE]

PayPal Complaints, PayPal Customer Service & eBay Suspension Complaints
https://www.zombaio.com/ (Not sure if they do billing for hard goods)
Merchant account alternative: CCNow (used them years ago.. high fees, but solid)

 

[rolygate]

The basic problem is that ecigs will change the direction of income streams totalling billions of dollars. It's not that the ecig industry will take that money but rather that they will prevent others earning it. The cost to pharma, tobacco and government tax departments will be immense, and unfortunately it's all enemies being created instead of friends being made.

This constitutes a huge change that some aren't happy about and are resisting strongly. The situation is unusual because a new industry is coming into existence that has a financial effect way beyond its power and control, and others still have that control. Ecigs will cost others billions and they are hardly likely to take that lying down. We don't yet know what all the implications are, but if you want to hurt an industry then cutting off its source of income is a good way to start.