A couple beginner questions...

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buckethead

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I'm thinking of starting to dabble in DIY soon. I'm reading, creating lists, re-reading, etc.

What do you guys like your nic base to be. PG or VG? 50/50? Why? I'd like my juice to end up at 50/50 12-18mg nic. So I'm thinking of starting off with 36mg nic.

Also, are any of the DIY starter kits any good for a beginner? Or is it better to make a list and head to RTS or WL?

Thanks for any info/advice!
 

release the kraken

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The first thing i did when i started was download the ejuicemeup calculator. Then i ran a bunch of test scenarios and learned exactly what I need to mix to get to what ratios of pg\vg, and nic. Doing the dry runs makes a lot of things click. You would first need to consider if you are going to have to dilute. As most flavorings are carried in a PG base you have to add that into consideration. Having a 50/50 mix makes it much easier to either add some pg or vg to swing the ratio in the direction you want to. Of you have all pg or all vg base, you wont be able to get to a 50/50 without diluting the nic more than you intend to. SO in other words, being in the middle of the road makes it easier to tweak one way or the other. If you had 0 of something (pg or vg) you would have to go a long way to get to your final 50\50 and if you only had 36 mg, you would probably over dilute with the amount of the pg or vg added to get it back to the ratio you want. Also nothing wrong with starting at 36 mg to dilute down to 12 or 18, but going higher gives you more room to play with diluting down rather than the "lower ceiling". You could easily back yourself into a corner of having to dilute the nic below your goal.

Personally i too shoot for about a 50\50 final so i currently have about 3000 ML of 40\60 base after i add 20% flavoring that is PG based, i am close enough for horseshoes and hand grenades. I started this thread when I first started and showed where i made some mistakes in my purchases and made a little list of things i would have done then if i knew what i do now. Maybe some helpful items http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-forum/453632-my-first-diy-juice.html

I am a big WL fan and actually going there on Thursday to pick up an order. THough they almost always out of nic. You could try Nude Nictotine, ecigexpress, and myfreedomsmokes to name a couple of others. I have read and about to test that hangsen flavors (carried at ecigexpress) are the easiest to work with when starting out. LA come a close second and TFA are a little more difficult and need more steeping times. tobacco juices generally need a long steeping time. Maybe look into getting an ultrasonic jewlery cleaner to do some turbo steeping. I got one on monday and im sold it works well. I generally see people say an hour in that is like a week of steeping and i must agree with them. (search the forum for ultrasonic and you will find everything). Also get yourself some vinegar. This is a very good read and really shows whats actually under the hood of how many vendors make juices and easy ways to fix or enhance your own. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/252238-vinegar.html

as far as the kit, i think i cover my thoughts in my thread i linked, but i a month or two ago, i found that kits were way more expensive than getting things individually and i found the hobby of searching for the stuff inside the hobby of making juice was fun. But thats just me, i like to have vapemail coming all the time. Hope this helps... I am unfortunately away from the computer for the net several days so i might not be able to get back to you quickly if you have follow up questions.
 

release the kraken

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It seems like you already have a pretty good handle for the way you are asking your questions, but I wrote up and sent this tutorial to another member and she said it really helped. Probably more information than you need but maybe there are a couple items in here that may be helpful as well. The example I created for her was for a huge batch so you can substitute much smaller numbers. Im hoping you are good with math as that's a necessary item to have a firm grasp on for DIY (well it makes it a lot easier). :) I make my test batches at 5ml as it makes the math simpler. Since we are dealing with 80% nic base and 20% flavor anything divisible by 5 makes it super easy. OR just stick to the calculator, plug in the numbers and you don't have to think at all. :) :)

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You can buy unflavored nic juice in 6, 12, 18, 24, 36, 50 something and 100 mg. You can also buy it 100% pg, 100% vg and some places will premix it 50/50 for you. So for this example, we are going to buy a 500ml bottle of 100% pg 100mg nic and a 500ml bottle of 100% pg nic, then mix them together and we now have 1 liter of 50\50 100mg nic juice.
So now if you look at the first line that is exactly what we have, 50\50 100 mg nic juice. So the next line asks what we want the nic level to be in this particular recipe. In this case its 18mg. The next line asks how much you want to make and in this case its 10 ml (or you could change it to 1000 ml for a liter).
As for flavors, the general rule of thumb is 20% flavor. You have to remember that most flavor is sent pg based and the calc takes that into consideration when it states how much pg and vg you need to add to get to your desired diluted strength and desired ratio. As you can see in his example his 4 flavors add up to 19%.
Then after the flavors are in there you tell it what you want your final juice to be and in this case it’s a 40\60, then you hit calculate at the bottom. IGNORE THE DROPS, IT IS NEVER USED. As you can see you only use 1.8 ml of the nic juice gets used, then its diluted with a certain amount of pg and vg that will get you to your nic level of 18mg and the correct ratio of 40\60. This is why you always have a much higher mg concentrated nic juice so when you dilute it down with pg and vg you are able to create the final pg\vg content you need. Obviously if you were making a 100% pg or 100% vg juice you wouldn’t start with 50\50 nic. You would have to have some of the 100% pg nic and 100% vp nic sitting around.

So lets say you needed to make a liter of this recipe, you are only going to use 180 ml of the 50\50 100 mg nic juice you made. So technically if you bought 1 liter of 100 mg 50\50 nic juice you could make about 5 liters of juice once you mix in the regular pg and vg. Obviously a little less if you diluted down to 24 mg. And obviously a lot more if you diluted down to 12 or 6 mg. The point is you ALWAYS want to get the 100 mg nic and dilute. If you only bought it at the strength you wanted then you could never dilute it and you could never get your ratios right to meet your target pg\vg

The best places to buy unflavored nic is either wizardlabs.us or http://nudenicotine.com they are the cheapest and best quality. Myfreedomsmokes has good sales from time to time and they are quality as well.
At strengths of 100mg, you don’t really have any special handing requirement. If it gets on you wash your hands. Though if you wore gloves and eye goggles it would be a good idea. Where it gets dangerous is at extremely high concentrates like the 99% pure nic. Basically the stuff these labs are using to make this 100mg juice for us.

EDIT: Also breaktru that wrote this free software app is a member here and always hanging out here in the DIY. He also has his own forum with tips and tricks and all around good info. He is a great guy and always very helpful.
 
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dannyv45

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Great explenations and info there release the kraken. I've never quite looked at the ease of adjustment like that when using 50/50. I've always looked at the throat hit and vaper aspect of it. But your method makes it easier to adjust new mixes you may be working on. See you can teach an old dog new tricks:)
 

release the kraken

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Thanks Danny, its been a while since we crossed paths my friend. I think the last one was my KY Jelly thread. The final verdict on that one was I am UBER sensitive to the flavor of VG when over 40% and it not being steeped for a VERY long time (or not so long with the ultrasonic). But once its steep I am good up to an all VG ratio.

Yeah, I think I got that idea from Kellycat (though im sure many others have posted that conclusion as well) so I must give credit where credit is due.

Ha, I love your signature too. My father in law started on BLU's last month and while he is visiting I got him an itaste vv and some evods. While I was "training" him, I literally had to jump over the table 50 times as when he would change tanks he kept grabbing the tank instead of the base. :blink::laugh:
 

dannyv45

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Ha, I love your signature too. My father in law started on BLU's last month and while he is visiting I got him an itaste vv and some evods. While I was "training" him, I literally had to jump over the table 50 times as when he would change tanks he kept grabbing the tank instead of the base. :blink::laugh:

Yes we all have our moments. Glad you got your PG/VG issues worked out.
 

debkerri

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Blemast3r, thanks for starting this thread today, as I was going to do the same thing! Release the kraken, thank you so much for the wealth of information! I already use E-Juice Me program, but you gave me some tips on things I was missing. I have been slowly buying flavors, bottles, etc. as I had extra money. Today I got my PG & VG from ED. I ordered a quart of each. Now comes the question that wasn't asked. I have read several places that when buying pure VG, as I did, it must be diluted with sterile water before using it. What is the ratio of water to VG? I can't find that information anywhere.
I have a ton of family waiting impatiently for me to get going on this. We live in the middle of nowhere in Indiana. The nearest Vape Shop is either Indy or Champaign, IL, either one is 60 to 70 miles... lol I got them to quit smoking and start vaping, but they never seem to order enough at one time to keep from running out before their next order comes in.... lol
 

dannyv45

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There is no need to dilute the VG if your going to use a PG/VG mixture of 75pg/25VG or 50/50 or even 25/75. You need to dilute it if your mix is 100% VG. In most cases this is never the case as most flavoring contain at least 10% PG. The reasion you dilute pure VG mixes is because the mix will be to thick to properly wick in a carto, clearo or what ever hardware device your using. You will be able to tell your mix is to thick when you try to vape it and get nothing but air or burn taste. There will be no flavor or vapor. If you find you need to dilute it use distilled water and use no more then a few drops at a time per 10ml. But remember this would only be nessessary if your mixes are 100% VG.
 
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release the kraken

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You only add distilled water (very important item) to recipes that are 100% vg based. This is due to how thick vg is and wicking issue primarily. You will find varying opinions at which % your vg ratio is that you need to add but what I get (and you may not like this answer :)) is that you will have to test to find your own preference and what works best with your hardware. So you don't get unvapable watered down your best bet is to have about 4 or 5 5 ml test bottles laid out in a row and add a little to 1 then in the next a little more and so on. Record the amount you put in each one. But I think I usually see people say it should be about 3%.

But since you purchased pg as well I'm assuming your mixture will be at least 30% pg thus with the thinner pg it takes care of watering it down. But if still too thick you can add water. Just because you are adding pg doesn't mean you cannot add water as well, just usually not necessary.

Essential depot pg and vg are a highly recommended product so you are def getting off on the right foot. :).

Ah champaign Urbana. I've been there a few times... I originated (born :)) in se Illinois right off the wabash river.

Edit: Danny beat me to it. +1 to what he said. :)
 
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