Absolute Beginner (no purchases)

[Brodius Bacchus]

As this is my first post, I should introduce myself. I'll begin by informing you that my parents saw fit to name me Brad, and as I've had 26 years of trial time with this name it has, to say the least, grown on me and acquired my liking. Thus, you may address me by this name.

All theatrics aside, I've consistently used tobacco, in all it's various forms, for some 12-13 years now. It used to be that I would consume tobacco in a cyclical fashion (e.g. three months on, one month off, two months on, etc.), until it developed into a year-round consumption cycle whilst alternating the type of tobacco I consumed (e.g. one year on "analog" cigarettes, one year on smokeless tobacco, or dip, etc.). This latter cycle has been a part of my life for about seven years now, and I've been on my dip cycle for approximately one-and-a-half years now (having given up smoking "analogs" on a regular basis - I still enjoy "analogs" from time to time).

I've only recently stumbled upon e-cigarettes/personal vaporizers and, I must say, I'm highly intrigued by the concept (from both a health and cost savings perspective). So, now that we're semi-formally introduced, allow me to jump right into things:

I'm looking into an e-cig/pv that will satisfy my cravings for both of my predominantly used forms of tobacco use (dip and "analogs"). I am a heavy "dipper" (there is, typically, not an hour in the day that I don't have a dip in my lip), so I need an e-cig/pv that is a work-horse. I've already done some of my homework, and I've ended up with my eye's on these models:

1. Mini DSE901 from VaporKings.com
2. The Rio from VaporNine.com
3. DSE901 from Totally Wicked
4. TECC-510 from Totally Wicked

I'm seeking something with decent throat-hit (not a predominant factor though), a decent draw (not too tight but not too "easy"), and good delivery of flavor (more predominant factor). I'm not too concerned with the amount of vapor production, just as long as it's there in some amount. The models I've listed seem to be up to the task and if any of you would like to affirm or deny my good suspicions about these, by all means, feel free.

I'm open to any other suggestions concerning starter kits. I'm favoring the DSE901 from VaporKings.com at the moment due to the fact that I get two atomizers and a decent selection of sample liquids. This is what I'm primarily looking for in a starter kit (two attys and my selection of liquid). If you know of any place that sounds better for me that follows that starter kit criteria, please let me know.

Lastly, I have some concerns about the future of this industry. Since Ruyan is actively pursuing protection of it's patents it would appear that stocking up on currently available items in the future may be in jeopardy. Are my doubts misguided? If I were to purchase an e-cig/pv in the near future only to have no availability of replacement parts shortly after that, I must confess, a relapse would be eminent.

I apologize if this has been an extremely long post, but I needed to get it all out there at once. I appreciate any and all feedback as I look towards making my future a healthier one.

Regards,
Brad

 

[mbolack]

VK has a good reputation, so that's not an issue.
And the 901 will give you good flavor, no question.
My only advice is to see if he can give you manual batteries instead of automatic... you'll be safer dripping that way, if you decide you want to.
You could also hardly go wrong with a 510 setup, but there are cheaper places to buy them. Look at The Widow, for one. Or dietsmokes.
Good luck in your quest, and welcome!

 

[wv2win]

As mbolack said, stay clear of the auto batteries and only get a manual battery PV. The Joye 510 or the MANUAL (not auto) DSE901 are good PV's but do have short battery life. If you are a take charge type and really want to get off the analogs, you might want to consider some of the premiere devices that have batteries that last 6-8 hours, give good consistent performance and best of all the batteries only cost $2 and will never be banned.

Here are some suppliers that are well supported for both types of PV's:

The Big Nine in Long Battery Life Manual Switch PV’s:

Screwdriver (3.7v): ecigscrewdriver.com
The Black Screwdriver Electronic Cigarette Kit
Prodigy (5v): PureSmoker.com - Home of the USA Built PV !!!
GG (6v): SmokeJuice - HOME
JantyStick (3.7v): Janty USA - Janty USA
LV/ZiMoshi (3.7 or 6v): Hardass Vapor Shop
Super T (3.7v): Super T, Innovative manufacturer of Personal Vaporizer products.
AdapteverR (6v): Home - AdapteveR Home of the ORIGINAL USA built PV
Silver Bullet (3.7v): AltSmoke | Personal Vaporizer Silver Bullet - Kit - Starter Kits
VP1/VP2 (3.7v): VaprLife


Several Joye 510 & Manual DSE901 Suppliers:

Home - Rocky Mountain Vapor you have reached the mountain top of electronic cigarettes!
Heaven-gifts.com Ruyandirect.com Best E-smoking Shop
www.eastmall.net - Eastmall International Co.,Ltd
e-Smokey Treats - Electronic Cigarette's, The healthy alternative to traditional tobacco cigarette's


Good Luck

 

[Crankyfuzz]

Cignot.com has the Joye 510 for 35.00 plus $5 shipping. I ordered last week on Wednesday and had my order on Friday.

 

[Brodius Bacchus]

Thank you both for your replies; I'll definitely look into your suggestions. One question I have off the bat is this: in both posts it was recommended that I go for manual batteries, is the manual battery the preferable way for beginners when getting into e-cig's/pv's?

I don't know how soon it'll be before I start utilizing the dripping method (I suppose others can shed light on how soon they started doing this themselves), but I'll certainly heed the recommendation to use the manual battery in this regard. As a very first buy with no immediate impulses to drip, are manual batteries still a top recommendation?

Again, thanks for the replies and I look forward to more information.

 

[Crankyfuzz]

Well my friend marg tried out a few and she along with everyone here suggested the Joye 510 with manual batteries and for me they have replaced smoking. Have had one regular smoke since Friday and it was nasty. From what I understand the manual batteries are sealed off so when dripping you do not have to worry about flooding out the battery really great thing for us newbies.

I am sure someone with more experience will post more helpful hints but if you get the chance watch spikeys video its in a sticky on top of this forum really great information in there sold me on ecigs.


Want to add that hubby was a 3 pack a day hardcore smoker and has also not smoked since Friday the joye 510 is meeting his needs also.

 

[quovadis]

Bacchus
i sincerely believe that a 510 starter kit is a great place to start.
After that, if you like the "art of vaping", you could always move on to more powerful hardware (Higher voltages) more battery power.
I also hear ecopure the liquid, is a good starting point.
Good luck, and we will be glad to help you out in any way we can.

 

[Moonflame]

Even if you are not planning to drip the manuals are a good idea. It is really easy to flood your atomizer while you are figuring out just what amount of juice works best when topping off and refilling. A manual prevents juice from getting down in the battery when this occurs.

I started off with the 901 and switched to a 510. Both are good, but I prefer the 510. I also went for one of the high end battery mods, more money spent now but savings in the long run, and I am so glad I did. It's nice not to have to worry about how long my battery is going to last and since I got a sturdy model my heart doesn't stop when it slips out of my hand and hits the floor. Good luck with this new endeavor. It seems like an overwhelming amount of information, but jump in with both feet and you'll be happily paddling around with the rest of us.

 

[Kent C]

Thank you both for your replies; I'll definitely look into your suggestions. One question I have off the bat is this: in both posts it was recommended that I go for manual batteries, is the manual battery the preferable way for beginners when getting into e-cig's/pv's?

I don't know how soon it'll be before I start utilizing the dripping method (I suppose others can shed light on how soon they started doing this themselves), but I'll certainly heed the recommendation to use the manual battery in this regard. As a very first buy with no immediate impulses to drip, are manual batteries still a top recommendation?

Again, thanks for the replies and I look forward to more information.

Regarding manual vs. auto batts:

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...g-electronic-cigarette-primer.html#post505870

As far as long term - the 510 is so popular that those parts should be around for a long time although the same could be said about the 901 and 801. There are two accessories for the 510 that become almost 'necessities' - the passthrough and the PCC. The passthrough helps save on batteries in that you're hooked up to a usb port either through the computer, a wall or car plug that has a usb port - output 5volt at 1amp is recommended. The PCC personal charger case allows you to charge the internal battery and then unhook and take it with you and you can charge your ecig batt 5 times while you're out. IOW, all day vaping at work or play.

That said, you can still start off with just the kit but there are some packages where you might save money if you intended to get those accessories anyway and of course, can afford it up front.

Some other vendors to check out:

Widows Bead Work - E-cig
For a bunch of extras and juice and passthrough and PCC check out the last package, including the wall and car plugs.
Widows Bead Work - Deals&steals
Free and fast shipping from the Widow

510 Kit:
Joye 510 with PCC
kit and passthrough
Joye 510 with Passthru
add pcc
Joye PCC
juice
Cignot your Midwest Electronic Cigarette store.

Since you're a dipper and that stuff is usually 'fire cured' tobacco, you might like an old favorite that has been discontinued but one vendor was smart enough to buy up some of the old stock when he heard Johnson Creek was changing formulas. This is a great vape and really does have a 'fire cured tobacco' flavor, imho. 'Tennessee cure' and may be much like 'Kentucky cure' too same process. If you like menthol or wintergreen you could get that those flavorings elsewhere and add a drop to each vape - wintergreen is really strong (as is menthol) so you wouldn't want to ruin the bottle by mixing it in unless you were sure. Anyway you can still get the old formula here - if he's still got any left:

Johnson Creek Tennessee Cured Smoke Juice - PG - 30mL

Another really good choice for lots of flavor and good blends of flavoring go here:
Nhale Exhale Liquids - NHaler

and get the High voltage which is like a double flavor hit. Drew has some 6ml bottles for samplers to try it out. Or you might want to go for the 24mg nic samplers - 'mint tobacco' or 'high tobacco' Nuport is a very good menthol if you like that. I haven't tried the menthol 555 but it's on order. May get it tomorrow (well, today ;-)

Nhale Exhale Liquids - NHaler

I like all their deluxe juices here:
Deluxe eLiquid - freshsmoking.com

Also check out the 510 kit and passthrough

 

[Brodius Bacchus]

I appreciate all the responses so far, I really do. I've got a lot to mull over before making my decision, but I'm glad I have more food for thought. I'll get back to you guys shortly if I have any further questions.

 

[Brodius Bacchus]

After spending some more time researching and looking around I have settled on a last batch of questions/concerns that I need answered/addressed before I buy.

First:
I mentioned in my very first post that vapor production isn't a very big issue with me. I've come to realize, and correct me if I am mistaken, that vapor production is largely attributable to the liquid that is used (as well as battery voltage, it seems). If this is the case, can (or does) the 901 perform just as well as the 510 in regards to vapor production? As an aside to this question, I've come across various people who had issues with the 510 having a harsher vapor than the 901, is this the case with the 510?

Second:
Throat-hit is something that is more of a deciding factor for me than vapor production. I've read, as well, that the 510 will produce a better throat hit. Acknowledging what I've cited in the above question, can (or does) the 901 perform just as well as the 510 in regards to throat hit?

Third:
Flavor production is right up there with throat hit, and probably more so (in terms of personal preference). Without going into the details of why I value this factor so highly, from what I've read, the 901 seems to be better at flavor production than the 510. Again, acknowledging what I've cited in the first question above (i.e. if these things depend on type and quality of liquid used), can (or does) the 510 perform just as well as the 901 in regards to flavor production?

Fourth:
This question is in regards to the technical aspect (quality of engineering) of both the 510 and 901 vaporizers. When put head-to-head, which vaporizer is likely to have more issues with it's batteries (failure and length of life) and atomizers? As an aside to this question, I'd like to point out that, from what I've researched, parts (in regards to the battery and atomizer) for the 901 tend to be cheaper - not by much, but still cheaper.

Fifth:
Since it is possible to acquire manual batteries for the 901, would you still recommend a 510 manual as the preferable choice (for those that have recommended such)?

Sixth:
From what I understand the 901 has a harder pull than the 510 (which is supposed to be surprisingly easy/light). Is this a function of the atomizer for the particular unit, or a function of cartridge design (round tip vs. whistle tip)?

I think that concludes my last round of questions. I kindly ask that you reply in an ordered, sequential manner (much as I have with my questions) that addresses each question separately. I thank all of you who have helped me in this process and I look forward to your replies.

 

[wv2win]

I will try and answer a couple of your questions. Good throat hit is the result of three things and not in any order: nicotine strength of the liguid. The higher the nic strength the better the hit. I would suggest starting out with about 24mg. You can always make it weaker, but you can't make it stronger. Next in the throat hit formula is battery power: the bigger the battery the better the throat hit. Your best throat hit comes with the 5 and 6 volt devices such as the Prodigy or the GG. After that your longer lasting 3.7 volt devices because they hold a charge longer and don't diminish as quick and fade. A good one in this category is the Screwdriver. The third requirement for good throat hit is a manual battery because it allows you to heat the atomizer as long as you want and warm vapor provides better throat hit.

If having the device be small is important to you, then the manual 510 or the manual 901 is the way to go. I think the 510 still provides a little better throat hit but I can't knock the manual 901.

Hope this helped a little.

Good Luck

 

[Kent C]

After spending some more time researching and looking around I have settled on a last batch of questions/concerns that I need answered/addressed before I buy.

First:
vapor production ...I've come across various people who had issues with the 510 having a harsher vapor than the 901, is this the case with the 510?

Almost all reports are that the 510 produces the most vapor for this size of ecig - mini. Harshness can come from various sources and one is heat and manual buttons can tend to be overused. But see below on the taste issue.

Second:
Throat-hit ...

Another heat related (and nic related) issue. You can get more throat hit from a manual - even the 510 but if throat hit has a high significance, the high volt mods are the only answer. That and high nic juice. And certain juice flavors will help - cinnamon, strong licorice/fennel/anise, curry/heavy tobacco - ie. 555 from eastmall and menthol/mint/doublemint/eucalyptus...

Third:
Flavor production ...

Imo, this is many times a matter of how the ecig is used. By virtue of the fact that most 510's are manual, there can be a tendency to overuse the button. I suspect this will be the case with the 901 as more manual batteries become available. More heat can affect some flavors (and enhance others). Auto's have a cutoff so those flavors that are reduced by heat won't get a chance to be so affected. I have both the auto and manual batts for the 510 and notice no difference in taste except the cappuccino can be stronger with more heat.

Fourth:
This question is in regards to the technical aspect (quality of engineering) of both the 510 and 901 vaporizers. When put head-to-head, which vaporizer is likely to have more issues with it's batteries (failure and length of life) and atomizers? As an aside to this question, I'd like to point out that, from what I've researched, parts (in regards to the battery and atomizer) for the 901 tend to be cheaper - not by much, but still cheaper.

No ecig is trouble free. I have the 510 and I've read some cases most recently - perhaps because the manual 901's have just come out - where people are losing buttons on the manual 901's and/or passthroughs. Also, iirc, most 901 kits have 2 batts but only one atty whereas most 510 kits have 2 batts 2 attys.

Fifth:
Since it is possible to acquire manual batteries for the 901, would you still recommend a 510 manual as the preferable choice (for those that have recommended such)?

See above but I would because the 510 also has auto batts and with the exception that I don't drip on the autos the performance is good enough to use while typing - the flat tip cartridges (0 type from dietsmokes and other places) are good for holding between the teeth. I find virtually no difference between the vapor production and flavor(unless you drip and then the vapor and flavor are better in the manual), but I actually go through the autos faster than the manuals (as far as charging goes), probably because I tend to keep them in my mouth longer and any breath will activate them. This - manuals lasting longer - is just the opposite of what is reported by many.

Sixth:
From what I understand the 901 has a harder pull than the 510 (which is supposed to be surprisingly easy/light). Is this a function of the atomizer for the particular unit, or a function of cartridge design (round tip vs. whistle tip)?

The cartridges are virtually interchangeable and I have four different types - 0 type in 510 and 901 and D type for both, and this is for the 510 only. I find no difference in draw as a result of the cartridge/mouthpiece. The main difference would be on the atomizer holes and mine are consistent. The 4081 I had, had a problem of misalignment - the holes went 'too deep' when the atty was fully snug and the manufacturer suggested backing of full snugness. That was a better draw but a severe flaw, imo - leaking became a problem.

 

[Brodius Bacchus]

I figured I should bring some closure to this post now that I've gone ahead and made a purchase. The purchase was made this afternoon at Heaven Gifts (due to it's receiving good reviews and the great prices), and the setup is as follows:

DSE901
2 manual batteries
2 atomizers (ordered an extra one on top of the one in the kit)
1 manual USB pass-through
1 AC-USB converter
1 pack of 10 empty carts for 901

For a cost of $47 (excluding shipping). I know I completely disregarded the 510 recommendations, but after looking around the forums and elsewhere I was much more sold on the 901. We'll see how it shapes up.

I haven't ordered extra liquid yet (and I know I need to soon) as I'm caught in a "mulling it over" stage. NHaler seems to have the best concept in terms of a new user being able to order samples (and supposedly has some really tasty juice), so I'll probably go through them. If anyone knows of another operating site that offers sample sizes at NHaler prices, let me know (I'm aware of E-Liquid Planet's sample packs - I'm eye'ing those as well).

I appreciate everyone's input, it has helped me immensely. As I transition into vaping I look forward to the support that this forum is known for.

Regards,
Brad

 

[isande]

One word of advice: Dip delivers a whole lot more nicotine than analogs do. You may want to go for a higher nicotine level than is typically advised.. say, 36mg. Keep in mind that if it's too much, you can always cut it and add flavor.

--K

 

[Brodius Bacchus]

Isande,

Thanks for the advice. I was wondering about that myself. I always suspected I was probably getting more, and I've not found any information regarding the mg levels of nicotine in a "pinch" of dip. Your advice is heeded and I'll probably go with the higher strength. That being said, what is the recommended procedure for cutting liquid?

 

[isande]

I use VG (glycerin, USP) to cut my liquid down to a lower nicotine level. Wal-Mart sells Humco brand glycerin in the wound care section. It's very inexpensive, about $4 for 6 oz (177 ml). I've had good luck with this brand but some people prefer Wilton brand glycerin, which is sold for use in baking.. I believe Hobby Lobby carries this brand.

In either case, you'll want to buy glycerin that says "USP" on the bottle and does not contain other ingredients. Mine says "99.5% glycerin, anhydrous".

There's a calculator for cutting liquid on the DIY forum here but I don't know the link off the top of my head and I'm at work so I don't have time to find it right now. You can cut 36mg to 24mg by mixing 2 parts 36mg liquid with 1 part glycerin.. half and half will yield 18mg. Of course this goes down slightly if you add flavorings.

Lorann's flavorings are available online and at some bakery shops, Hobby Lobby, etc. They're inexpensive and very potent, so it doesn't take much to "amp up" the flavor in your liquid. I use them indiscriminately but certain ones (those that contain oils) **MIGHT** decrease the lifespan of your atomizer so most avoid these.

--K

 

[wv2win]

Isande,

Thanks for the advice. I was wondering about that myself. I always suspected I was probably getting more, and I've not found any information regarding the mg levels of nicotine in a "pinch" of dip. Your advice is heeded and I'll probably go with the higher strength. That being said, what is the recommended procedure for cutting liquid?

The problem with cutting already flavored liquid with VG is that you lose most of the flavor, because in essense you are watering it down.

If you want to maintain the flavor but experiement with different nic strengths, then get 36 or 24mg strenth liquid in a flavor you think you will like, then get the same flavor in a lesser strength liquid such as 11mg or even 0 nic. Then you can "cut" the liquid in nic strength without sacrificing the flavor.

BTW, I use KENT flavor and RY4 from Heaven's Gifts and find them to be great.

 

[Casey C]

Lastly, I have some concerns about the future of this industry. Since Ruyan is actively pursuing protection of it's patents it would appear that stocking up on currently available items in the future may be in jeopardy. Are my doubts misguided? If I were to purchase an e-cig/pv in the near future only to have no availability of replacement parts shortly after that, I must confess, a relapse would be eminent.

I apologize if this has been an extremely long post, but I needed to get it all out there at once. I appreciate any and all feedback as I look towards making my future a healthier one.

Regards,
Brad

imminent

sorry, have to, its an OCD thing

 

[wv2win]

Lastly, I have some concerns about the future of this industry. Since Ruyan is actively pursuing protection of it's patents it would appear that stocking up on currently available items in the future may be in jeopardy. Are my doubts misguided? If I were to purchase an e-cig/pv in the near future only to have no availability of replacement parts shortly after that, I must confess, a relapse would be eminent. Brad

Your concerns are valid but not because of Ruyan but because of smoking vigilante groups like ASH and the FDA preparing to ban the sale of all devices.

If you like vaping, I would suggest you start stocking up on atomizers and liquid ASAP. If you get a bigger battery device you will at least not have to worry about battery availability. I would try to get 40-50 atomizers and 1000+ml of juice if at all possible. Oh, and some blank carts.