Alberta bill 33

[Wolffy]

Well damn, it's certainly a catch all... What does a "heated tobacco-like product" even mean exactly? At what point is something considered "heated"? A nicotine patch on my arm is heated too. It certainly is during winter...

How exactly are law enforcement going to be able to tell if my ecig has nicotine in it or not? Under these definitions, nic-free ecigs cannot be classified as a tobacco-like product.

Wasn't the first PV an ultrasonic vaporizer? That is, no heat? So to them, the vapor from a coil is somehow different than the vapor from an ultrasonic vaporizer?

Surely this also applies to incense as well. And what about Glade plug-ins? Those are heated, and surely contain extracts as well. Glade plug-in = tobacco-like product?

Hookah bars will be no more. Who goes to a hookah bar unless you want to puff on a hookah?

All this, and yet you'll still be able to go to an Indian Casino and smoke a thousand cigarettes? And they can continue selling them for a pittance?

Now you are getting the point! Lets take this a step further. If legislation used a term 'Automobile like vehicle' and they really wanted to roast the 'Radio Flyers Racing Club' they could say that a Radio Flyer Wagon is 'automobile like' because it has 4 wheels, passenger capacity and is steerable.

That Concat is the power of vaguely written legalese.

 

[Kagey K]

Well damn, it's certainly a catch all... What does a "heated tobacco-like product" even mean exactly? At what point is something considered "heated"? A nicotine patch on my arm is heated too. It certainly is during winter...

How exactly are law enforcement going to be able to tell if my ecig has nicotine in it or not? Under these definitions, nic-free ecigs cannot be classified as a tobacco-like product.

Wasn't the first PV an ultrasonic vaporizer? That is, no heat? So to them, the vapor from a coil is somehow different than the vapor from an ultrasonic vaporizer?

Surely this also applies to incense as well. And what about Glade plug-ins? Those are heated, and surely contain extracts as well. Glade plug-in = tobacco-like product?

Hookah bars will be no more. Who goes to a hookah bar unless you want to puff on a hookah?

All this, and yet you'll still be able to go to an Indian Casino and smoke a thousand cigarettes? And they can continue selling them for a pittance?

Just going by this wording and worst case scenarios....

Seems a to me that re-enacting the idea of smoking, would be 1 fine. Having nicotine would be a second fine. If you produce a smoke like vapor you could be set aside and questioned. They would obviously have to add extra money to the police to be able to test.

money that could help prove vapours are a good thing, but that's another story. You would be guilty until you could prove it, by thier scientists standards. So you would give up your juice and have them analyze it. But then you still acted like you smoked so the nic free law would get you.

no matter what we lose as people which is why I won't understand the hostility earlier.

it is called the Alberta Tobacco Harm Reduction Law.

Yet we are reducing the harm and production, and getting targeted at the same time, how much sense does this make?

 

[Wolffy]

In the US right now schools are in such an anti gun tizzy that children in primary and elementary school are being sent home for playing 'cops and robber' for pointing their finger like a gun and saying "POW".

How far is this 'anti tobacco' movement going to go? What if you go through the motions of smoking with nothing in your hand? Will that be illegal in 5 or 10 years? This is about far more than 'Tobacco Reduction' as Lorne Gunther points out. "Alberta needs to .... out"
Alberta needs to .... out | Columnists | Opinion | Toronto Sun

 

[Talyon]

Guess I won't be able to use this either, lol.

 

[Glenn_K]

Greetings; From the various bans that have come into force in Canada, we know that provinces and municipalities can prohibit smoking in public places, but is there a serious chance that a legal activity could be banned from private spaces? And, as mentioned above, can a province re-write the definition of 'smoking,' an activity which is regulated by the federal government (Health Canada)?

I wonder how the federal government will react to this.

Unfortunately we don't have a cash-rich advocacy group on our side (like the smoking lobby does) to fight this kind of legislation that invades our personal rights and freedoms.

(Though this is off topic, I can't make the comment I just did without adding that I will never fire up my Vamo when kids are around, regardless of how much I hate the idea of a ban on vaping in private spaces. When it comes to children, I treat vaping the same way I treated smoking, and try to never let them see me doing it).

Regards
Glenn

 

[Kagey K]

Greetings; From the various bans that have come into force in Canada, we know that provinces and municipalities can prohibit smoking in public places, but is there a serious chance that a legal activity could be banned from private spaces? And, as mentioned above, can a province re-write the definition of 'smoking,' an activity which is regulated by the federal government (Health Canada)?

I wonder how the federal government will react to this.

Unfortunately we don't have a cash-rich advocacy group on our side (like the smoking lobby does) to fight this kind of legislation that invades our personal rights and freedoms.

(Though this is off topic, I can't make the comment I just did without adding that I will never fire up my Vamo when kids are around, regardless of how much I hate the idea of a ban on vaping in private spaces. When it comes to children, I treat vaping the same way I treated smoking, and try to never let them see me doing it).

Regards
Glenn

Unfortunately they can and they will. They will also set precedents that other provinces will follow. The shuffling and stumbling of the feet from our federal government may get undermined by preemptive provincial rules. If the federal govt called ecig safe the day after this bill is passed, it's too late for Alberta.

If this bill goes through as it reads it is the beginning of the end for ecigs. Even more so then the previous restrictions put on them.

 

[Kagey K]

Unfortunately they can and they will. They will also set precedents that other provinces will follow. The shuffling and stumbling of the feet from our federal government may get undermined by preemptive provincial rules. If the federal govt called ecig safe the day after this bill is passed, it's too late for Alberta.

If this bill goes through as it reads it is the beginning of the end for ecigs. Even more so then the previous restrictions put on them.

I love the article and I love how the commenters seem to think that Danielle Smith is the leader. It really shows how much most of Canada knows about Ab. If people can't even figure out who to be mad at then, I guess the idea of this thread is pretty dumb. I was hoping that we could stop this bill so that ecigs were omitted from them, but Ontario will Canada. Good job guys.

 

[Wolffy]

While a bit dated, I found a great little read posted by the CEO of Zen Electronic Cigarettes. While I can not prove this true it has been on the internet for about 6 months and Health Canada most likely knows about it. If Health Canada Knows about it and it is false, why have they not taken action to have the story removed? I think it's time to get to know our enemy's. It's pretty scarey but does make sense when you think about it so I hope you enjoy the read.

The Thruth about HEALTH CANADA
The Thruth about HEALTH CANADA

 

[Kagey K]

While a bit dated, I found a great little read posted by the CEO of Zen Electronic Cigarettes. While I can not prove this true it has been on the internet for about 6 months and Health Canada most likely knows about it. If Health Canada Knows about it and it is false, why have they not taken action to have the story removed? I think it's time to get to know our enemy's. It's pretty scarey but does make sense when you think about it so I hope you enjoy the read.

The Thruth about HEALTH CANADA
The Thruth about HEALTH CANADA

I don't think I need to read what it had to say, but I already have my own assumptions. They will follow what the FDA says, and any other act will be left in its own accordance to this new ruling. It is the same as it has been since the early 70's. We play follow the leader all the time instead of being the ones pushing the buttons.

 

[Talyon]

I don't think I need to read what it had to say, but I already have my own assumptions. They will follow what the FDA says, and any other act will be left in its own accordance to this new ruling. It is the same as it has been since the early 70's. We play follow the leader all the time instead of being the ones pushing the buttons.

Historically, Canada follows both the USA and UK, when developing laws and regulations. We typically go somewhere in the middle.

The latest UK rulings although incomplete, favor ecigs and the FDA we don't know yet, so.......

 

[Talyon]

This just in, according to CAVR bill 33 has nothing to do with ecigs.

Please join CAVR on Facebook, for more info.

Canadians Advocating Vapers Rights.

 

[Concat]

Yeah, to me it's clear they weren't trying to target ecigs... but that doesn't mean it won't get swept up in the overly broad language used. As I said earlier, with the way they define everything a Judge might determine Glade Plug-ins are illegal in public places.

 

[Kagey K]

You nailed it! I've emailed my MLA as well as 3 others pointing at evidence that ecigs are a safer alternative to smoking. Bill 33.

http://www.assembly.ab.ca/ISYS/LADD...egislature_28/session_1/20120523_bill-033.pdf

This part is basically legalese for 'screw ecigs too!'

2
(d) by adding the following after clause (i):
(i.1) “smoke a tobacco-like product” means to smoke, hold or
otherwise have control over
a lit or heated tobacco-like
product;
(e) by adding the following after clause (j):
(j.1) “tobacco-like product” mean
s, subject to the regulations,
a product, other than a tobacco product, composed in
whole or in part of
(i) plants or plant products, or any extract of them, or
(ii) other substances prescribed by regulation;
4
Section 3 is amended
(a) by striking out
“smoke”
and substituting
“smoke a
tobacco product or to
bacco-like product”;


Egic safer than tobacco studies...

ECTA Informational Publications/Studies/Articles/Videos

I am not so easily appeased. It is clearly worded there and even amended from smoking to to smoke a tobacco like product, and the. To follow,it,up with any heated and and tobacco plant extract telles me they clearly want to include ecigs in this. If they amend any of this wording to exclude vapor or non plant burning materials then I might believe that this is not aimed at ecigs as well.

I have a constable that lives 2 doors down from me who I am in almost daily contact with and he believes that my ecig would be punishable under the act,even though he doesn't object to it nor mind me using it around him at this time. The way it is worded will definitely include our ecigs as they stand.

Edit: Ecigs may not be the intended target, but they will be the innocent bystander who is accidentally hit in the cross fire and punished the worst.

Edit 2 I quoted this just to reiterate the legalese, but it was a direct reply to Taylon and the post above me. I just haven't got the hang of this forum stuff yet.

 

[dahlialady]

They want all flavours removed however, the government has not yet committed to banning menthol cigarettes....Hmmm....well that's because Big Tobacco is greasing the palms of Alberta Government. I for one am a strong proponent of not smoking TOBACCO in a car while there are minors inside. Yet Vaping is NOT smoking. And I can bet that Big Tobacco greases the province of Alberta for more than the estimated $1.8 billion a year in health expenses caused by smoking TOBACCO (not vaping)...So guess what? All the big guns win. You die early from smoking. Government doesn't pay you your pension. You payed through the nose in taxes on cigarettes your entire life. Government wins. You die. You loose. Ya think they care? Not a chance. They just want your tax money and not have to pay back.

This Bill 33 reeks to me because it's not banning smoking outright, It's banning flavours.....A main factor in why give up lung darts and take up e-cigs. They don't deliver cancer, tar, gross tastes.....just nicotine and a nice flavour. E-cigs are a big threat to the government and Big Tobacco.

 

[Kagey K]

They want all flavours removed however, the government has not yet committed to banning menthol cigarettes....Hmmm....well that's because Big Tobacco is greasing the palms of Alberta Government. I for one am a strong proponent of not smoking TOBACCO in a car while there are minors inside. Yet Vaping is NOT smoking. And I can bet that Big Tobacco greases the province of Alberta for more than the estimated $1.8 billion a year in health expenses caused by smoking TOBACCO (not vaping)...So guess what? All the big guns win. You die early from smoking. Government doesn't pay you your pension. You payed through the nose in taxes on cigarettes your entire life. Government wins. You die. You loose. Ya think they care? Not a chance. They just want your tax money and not have to pay back.

This Bill 33 reeks to me because it's not banning smoking outright, It's banning flavours.....A main factor in why give up lung darts and take up e-cigs. They don't deliver cancer, tar, gross tastes.....just nicotine and a nice flavour. E-cigs are a big threat to the government and Big Tobacco.

Funny enough. Menthol was included in the flavour ban, and it was only after it's inclusion that big tobacco stepped in. It went from a sure thing to pass to now being delayed strictly on that one amendment, it's funny how that works. It passed readings in record time... Until the menthol thing came up and now it suddenly gets stalled. It proves where the minds at work are, and they are not for us.

 

[Talyon]

We might not have CASAA up here, but we do have CAVR please join them, growth can only occur if we join.

It's my understanding that CAVR well soon have its webpage up and running.

 

[Talyon]

Also please don't take me wrong, I agree 100% with y'all. I'm just trying to be as proactive as I can possibly be. This is why I alerted CAVR as they have some resources for getting info etc.

I have the same suspicions, about the language of this bill 33. But I feel a bit better knowing some entity might be able to help us with it across Canada.

Being arrested is a way different matter, and until the cops are told ecigs are a crime they are not. 2 of my personal friends are on the Toronto Police force, one a Sargent and even though they approve of ecigs, doesn't mean they all do. But until it's a crime, and it isn't I don't care what a cop says about language. A lawyer well see it his clients way.

 

[Concat]

They want all flavours removed however, the government has not yet committed to banning menthol cigarettes....Hmmm....well that's because Big Tobacco is greasing the palms of Alberta Government. I for one am a strong proponent of not smoking TOBACCO in a car while there are minors inside. Yet Vaping is NOT smoking. And I can bet that Big Tobacco greases the province of Alberta for more than the estimated $1.8 billion a year in health expenses caused by smoking TOBACCO (not vaping)...So guess what? All the big guns win. You die early from smoking. Government doesn't pay you your pension. You payed through the nose in taxes on cigarettes your entire life. Government wins. You die. You loose. Ya think they care? Not a chance. They just want your tax money and not have to pay back.

This Bill 33 reeks to me because it's not banning smoking outright, It's banning flavours.....A main factor in why give up lung darts and take up e-cigs. They don't deliver cancer, tar, gross tastes.....just nicotine and a nice flavour. E-cigs are a big threat to the government and Big Tobacco.

They can only ban the sale of it, not possession. You can still mix your own, and let's be honest... do you think it will difficult to order juice online with a flavor ban? Are they going to set up inter-provincial customs agents to sift through Albertan mail?

 

[Wolffy]

While a bit dated, I found a great little read posted by the CEO of Zen Electronic Cigarettes. While I can not prove this true it has been on the internet for about 6 months and Health Canada most likely knows about it. If Health Canada Knows about it and it is false, why have they not taken action to have the story removed? I think it's time to get to know our enemy's. It's pretty scarey but does make sense when you think about it so I hope you enjoy the read.

The Thruth about HEALTH CANADA

The Thruth about HEALTH CANADA

I do not mean to spam but it would appear that very few people have bothered to look at the article I linked to. I think the first paragraph tells a lot so here it is...

"A year ago, following the publication of Journal de Montréal’s article exposing our troubles with Health Canada, I received an anonymous phone call from someone claiming to be linked to Health Canada. That person informed me that at least one of the companies who manufacture nicotine patches and nicotine gum was putting internal pressure on Health Canada to keep electronic cigarettes containing nicotine, like the Zen eCig, from being commercialized. As I didn’t have any evidence in support of this information back then, I didn’t act on the tip. But I have now gathered enough information and evidence to expose preferential treatment and other seemingly corrupt practices within Health Canada."

I can not prove this either true or false but I'll stick with 'following the money' until it's proven otherwise.

 

[Talyon]

I do not mean to spam but it would appear that very few people have bothered to look at the article I linked to. I think the first paragraph tells a lot so here it is...

"A year ago, following the publication of Journal de Montréal’s article exposing our troubles with Health Canada, I received an anonymous phone call from someone claiming to be linked to Health Canada. That person informed me that at least one of the companies who manufacture nicotine patches and nicotine gum was putting internal pressure on Health Canada to keep electronic cigarettes containing nicotine, like the Zen eCig, from being commercialized. As I didn’t have any evidence in support of this information back then, I didn’t act on the tip. But I have now gathered enough information and evidence to expose preferential treatment and other seemingly corrupt practices within Health Canada."

I can not prove this either true or false but I'll stick with 'following the money' until it's proven otherwise.

We know it's the money, but in reality unless your related to a big big politician what can u do to get the ball rolling on this corruption? Even if we had an Editor or a hugh Paper on our side, it would take something like that to expose this.

I'll also add, we in numbers can bring lots of attention to this matter.......

Our time is approaching.