Alternating Current, the next evolution in Vaping?

[bobbavet]

GDay all

Being a Boilermaker / Welder I am aware of the advantages of AC current in a thermal process. In particular "high frequency" AC. It got me thinking.......... (Uh-oh)

AC would be an advantage in increasing the life of a coil. 2/3 of the heat in a DC circuit always resides at the positive side of the resistance. This would mean the + side of the coil will always be heated more.
With an AC the + is always swapping, so even distribution of heat /wear / flavor on the coil.

Most people are familiar with frequency or Hz (back and forth cycle) of AC. Most appliances operate at the stock 50Hz some appliances increase it to 120Hz plus depending on the use.

In welding, machines can increase the frequencies to up to 3000Hz plus creating an intense, concentrated area of heating, helping to lift oxides and impurities. Making difficult to weld metal such as Aluminium or Stainless much easier.

I thought the for practicality for a vaping application ACHF would be an easier vape of %100 VG and maintenance of the flavor which is currently diminished by %100VG. It may also prevent "caking" of the coil.

SO...........

Sound feasible, Could this be done?

Cheers Bob

 

[ckone180]

It certainly can be done, but the costs may out weigh the benefits. You would likely see larger APVs and prices.

 

[cozzicon]

GDay all

Being a Boilermaker / Welder I am aware of the advantages of AC current in a thermal process. In particular "high frequency" AC. It got me thinking.......... (Uh-oh)

AC would be an advantage in increasing the life of a coil. 2/3 of the heat in a DC circuit always resides at the positive side of the resistance. This would mean the + side of the coil will always be heated more.
With an AC the + is always swapping, so even distribution of heat /wear / flavor on the coil.

Most people are familiar with frequency or Hz (back and forth cycle) of AC. Most appliances operate at the stock 50Hz some appliances increase it to 120Hz plus depending on the use.

In welding, machines can increase the frequencies to up to 3000Hz plus creating an intense, concentrated area of heating, helping to lift oxides and impurities. Making difficult to weld metal such as Aluminium or Stainless much easier.

I thought the for practicality for a vaping application ACHF would be an easier vape of %100 VG and maintenance of the flavor which is currently diminished by %100VG. It may also prevent "caking" of the coil.

SO...........

Sound feasible, Could this be done?

Cheers Bob

Boy I hope not.

I don't want to have to teach Ohm's Law and THEN follow it up with an extended diatribe on inductive reactance.

Yeesh.

 

[rwechsler]

WOW! I had to re-read this over to fully take in everything you mentioned. I think I need to do some more research before I can formulate an opinionated stance on the topic, but in theory, I think you're onto something VERY interesting. I think this would be especially practical in the context of genesis atomizers.

GDay all

Being a Boilermaker / Welder I am aware of the advantages of AC current in a thermal process. In particular "high frequency" AC. It got me thinking.......... (Uh-oh)

AC would be an advantage in increasing the life of a coil. 2/3 of the heat in a DC circuit always resides at the positive side of the resistance. This would mean the + side of the coil will always be heated more.
With an AC the + is always swapping, so even distribution of heat /wear / flavor on the coil.

Most people are familiar with frequency or Hz (back and forth cycle) of AC. Most appliances operate at the stock 50Hz some appliances increase it to 120Hz plus depending on the use.

In welding, machines can increase the frequencies to up to 3000Hz plus creating an intense, concentrated area of heating, helping to lift oxides and impurities. Making difficult to weld metal such as Aluminium or Stainless much easier.

I thought the for practicality for a vaping application ACHF would be an easier vape of %100 VG and maintenance of the flavor which is currently diminished by %100VG. It may also prevent "caking" of the coil.

SO...........

Sound feasible, Could this be done?

Cheers Bob

 

[bobbavet]

WOW! I had to re-read this over to fully take in everything you mentioned. I think I need to do some more research before I can formulate an opinionated stance on the topic, but in theory, I think you're onto something VERY interesting. I think this would be especially practical in the context of genesis atomizers.

Thanks for your interest, I had a few sceptical glances @ my home forum AussieVapers, but is starting some inquisitive research. I think "Stoney" Is going to try and make an AC circuit to try. No High frequencey at this point.

I know ... about creating electronics, just versed in thier use, this is why I thought this arc welding tech could be of benefit at a micro vaping level.

What really made the penny drop was when I saw pulse voltage modulation being used in current mods and thought "hey us welders have known about that for decades". There are lots of tricks we use with power to improve the weldability of metals.

With AC you could have different voltages on each cycle. 5V forward, 3V back. Effectively pulse voltage with NO on off of the circuit. You could have different time lengths for each cycle. 5V for 5milsec, 3v for 1 milsec. There is just so much you could do with AC eg. sqaure wave, curved wave and who knows what the benefits could be.

Coil life meh thats no biggy, keeping coils/wicks clean untainted or vaping 100VG with flavour would have to be good.

Would be excellent to see some modders tackle this, even if it leads to nothing. You never ever know, if ya never ever go. 8)

 

[rondasherrill]

Wouldn't AC require it be plugged in, as in only a passthrough type of setup? Or do they make a feasibly small inverter to convert DC to AC?

Just based on what I know of how Edison showed that Tesla's AC current is dangerous... I don't know about putting something driven by it in my mouth...

 

[bobbavet]

It's well known that Edison conducted a "scare" campaign on AC so his own DC equipment would be used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Currents

I lost some respect for Edison, finding out he was one of he first FUD campaigners in modern history. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt

 

[rondasherrill]

It's well known that Edison conducted a "scare" campaign on AC so his own DC equipment would be used.

War of Currents - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

LOL Yea I know. That was like my favorite subject when I was younger. I always found it odd that Tesla was never mentioned in school. Still, I guess the main thing is whether or not there is a way to implement it both feasibly and safely.

 

[bobbavet]

What if you could have "coiless" vaping? With ACHF an arc could cross the poles, through a liquid or just the liquid filled wick. We are talking a distance of millimeters here not elephant frying. lols

Mega lols

Jan. 4, 1903: Edison Fries an Elephant to Prove His Point

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/01/dayintech_0104

Not funny really 8/

 

[rondasherrill]

Thinking like a spark plug or jacobs ladder kind of effect inside the atomizer? Interesting actually...

Still I think the biggest issue is going to be convincing the general public(or heck, govt agencies even) that putting something driven by AC current into their mouth is safe, regardless of whether it actually is. Alot of people are already skitish at e-cigarettes because "one blew up in some guys mouth". They don't even know or care that it was not a normal e-cig.

I remember watching that video, and a few others... Edison was a sick, ruthless man for sure.

What if you could have "coiless" vaping? With ACHF an arc could cross the poles, through a liquid or just the liquid filled wick. We are talking a distance of millimeters here not elephant frying. lols

Mega lols

Jan. 4, 1903: Edison Fries an Elephant to Prove His Point

Jan. 4, 1903: Edison Fries an Elephant to Prove His Point

Not funny really 8/

 

[bobbavet]

I just don't get it? Both AC and DC are equally dangerous. It's Voltage that kills and we vape @6V and under. Electricity always take the path of least resistance, I am sure AC or DC will travel millimeters between poles rather than through anyone's brain. lol

I think one thing that might have to be done to a mod for AC is go 12V to provide a 6V AC current. I'm only throwing this stuff out there. I have no real idea of the logistics of electronics.

 

[rondasherrill]

I just don't get it? Both AC and DC are equally dangerous.

Modders and tinkerers know this... Most people do not. When people think of DC, they think of a AA battery. When people think of AC, they think of the thing that powers their electronics that could kill them.

The whole "coil less" design sounds pretty awesome. The "forever" atomizer...

 

[bobbavet]

THe "Coiless AC ATTY"

 

[martinc]

The blob of caked Geoff's Blend on my coil is neither on the left or the right side of my coil but always encasing the middle 4 (on 6) so I dont think it would change things much in that dept

 

[bobbavet]

The blob of caked Geoff's Blend on my coil is neither on the left or the right side of my coil but always encasing the middle 4 (on 6) so I dont think it would change things much in that dept

My thought was that with a constant back and forth action of the current, caking may be minimalised, maybe lifted off the coil.

 

[Rocketman]

I'm not terrible convinced in your logic. AC arc welding might be useful in clearing contaminants but unless you get the arc going it doesn't really do anything. Other than heat. The uniform power distribution in a DC circuit is easily seen in automotive lights. One end of the filament looks about as bright as the other. If you looked at the power distribution in a DC circuit you would see that theoretically it matches what you see in a light bulb filament. Equal energy conversion from electrical to thermal per unit of resistance.
Think of a 3 ohm atty heater as 3000 little 1 milli ohm resistors in series (3 ohms total). Which one of the little resistors generates the most heat? (the coiled construction does focus heat to the inner coils).

Unless power levels get high enough to melt the heater material and cause grain migration, or arc from coil to coil, I doubt AC will do anything different than DC for a simple heater circuit.

Now, with some of the latest stack battery PWM PVs that switch full battery voltage to the heater coil, a soft start ramp might be a way to get a little more power from the heater coil without a cold start current surge burning out the coil.

I could be totally off track, but I think a better parallel to an e-cig heater would be an underdriven incandescent bulb.

 

[ckone180]

I just don't get it? Both AC and DC are equally dangerous. It's Voltage that kills and we vape @6V and under. Electricity always take the path of least resistance, I am sure AC or DC will travel millimeters between poles rather than through anyone's brain. lol

I think one thing that might have to be done to a mod for AC is go 12V to provide a 6V AC current. I'm only throwing this stuff out there. I have no real idea of the logistics of electronics.

I'm pretty sure its not voltage that kills.

 

[cozzicon]

I'm not terrible convinced in your logic. AC arc welding might be useful in clearing contaminants but unless you get the arc going it doesn't really do anything. Other than heat. The uniform power distribution in a DC circuit is easily seen in automotive lights. One end of the filament looks about as bright as the other. If you looked at the power distribution in a DC circuit you would see that theoretically it matches what you see in a light bulb filament. Equal energy conversion from electrical to thermal per unit of resistance.
Think of a 3 ohm atty heater as 3000 little 1 milli ohm resistors in series (3 ohms total). Which one of the little resistors generates the most heat? (the coiled construction does focus heat to the inner coils).

Unless power levels get high enough to melt the heater material and cause grain migration, or arc from coil to coil, I doubt AC will do anything different than DC for a simple heater circuit.

Now, with some of the latest stack battery PWM PVs that switch full battery voltage to the heater coil, a soft start ramp might be a way to get a little more power from the heater coil without a cold start current surge burning out the coil.

I could be totally off track, but I think a better parallel to an e-cig heater would be an underdriven incandescent bulb.

Dude you rock.

But I'm NOT doing any commentary on a three phase PV. Not. Gonna. Happen. We're already dealing with the solid state equivalent of a flyback transformer. That is ridiculous enough

A girl has to draw the line somewhere.

 

[NancyR]

While you may have something there, I would just soon keep my gapping to the sparkplugs in my car not my e-cig, I am quite happy with wrapping coils.

 

[Rocketman]

Could be a way to 'self heal' a burned out coil

oh, and a late edit:
anyone have any idea what the arc temperature would be?
like maybe even hotter than a burning cigarette?