Antifreeze (tired of hearing this)

[Mach10X]

Ok, we all know not to drink Antifreeze right? And I'm sure we all know that young children and especially pets might be drawn to antifreeze and drink it. Copious warnings on the bottles, et cetera.

I'm just sick and tired of the media and individuals demonizing PV's because the liquid contained is a key ingredient in antifreeze.

Here's some facts about antifreeze and its ingredients.

Ingredients:
Methanol: Methanol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ethylene Glycol: Ethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Propylene Glycol: Propylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Methanol, also known as methyl alcohol, carbinol, wood alcohol, wood naphtha or wood spirits, is an extremely toxic chemical with formula CH3OH (often abbreviated MeOH). Drinking 1 ml will cause blindness, and as little as 5 ml will cause death, as many unfortunate individuals found out during the Prohibition.

This is what's going to make you drop dead within minutes of ingesting it.

Propylene Glycol lists one of its uses "As a less-toxic antifreeze".
From the Wikipedia anti-freeze article:

Propylene glycol is "generally recognized as safe" by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for use in food. However, propylene glycol-based antifreeze should not be considered safe for consumption.

Ethylene Glycol is poisonous, but if you were to drink some of this you'd have some time to get to the hospital. Antidotes are readily available. I found this interesting note in the Wikipedia article "Ethylene Glycol Poisoning":

Ethylene glycol has a low vapor pressure; it does not evaporate readily at normal temperatures and therefore high concentrations in air or intoxication are unlikely to occur following inhalational exposures.[8] There may be a slight risk of poisoning where mists or fogs are generated, although this rarely leads to poisoning as ethylene glycol causes irritation and coughing when breathed in, alerting victims to its presence.[9] Ethylene glycol is not well absorbed through skin meaning poisoning following dermal exposure is also uncommon.

Sources:
Ethylene glycol poisoning - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Antifreeze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[lvlninety9]

While I agree with you on this subject, it's not likely to be let go very easily. It's a good scare tactic to those that are uninformed about the truth and it will get abused until someone finally proves it wrong.

 

[TDM]

Wanna send a scare message. They are worried about PG being in our juice...... I wonder how they would feel about PG being in all the flavoring of all their holiday candies!! Main ingredient of Loranns candy flavoring is PG

 

[OutWest]

If you own an RV and ever use it in the winter, your freshwater holding tank (drinking water) has PG in it. That jug of non-toxic stuff to add to freshwater to prevent freezing is PG.

 

[Kelly79]

If you own an RV and ever use it in the winter, your freshwater holding tank (drinking water) has PG in it. That jug of non-toxic stuff to add to freshwater to prevent freezing is PG.

Awesome, at least know when I'm living in AK my e-liquid won't freeze up in the winter. Yea!

 

[Mach10X]

Thanks for the feedback. Good one about the holiday candy. And yes...you'd be hard pressed to get your e-liquid to freeze I would think. However I think it's the Methanol that prevents freezing. The PG or EG (ethylene glycol) are what make it hard to boil. In the southern states you can even fine anti-freezes that do freeze quite easily but have a very hard time overheating. Unfortunately here in the Gulf Coast region around Pensacola, FL it gets well below freezing (20*F low last winter in the dead of night).

Needless to say my point was that there are lots of products that contain mundane everyday even EDIBLE ingredients. It's not fair to pick out a single ingredient from a toxic mixture and conclude that every ingredient is therefore toxic. If I mix bleach with orange juice...that mixture would kill you very effectively, however it's not fair to say that it's the orange juice doing the killing. But things that have chemical-y names get a bad wrap. Perfect example follows:

Beware the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide! Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide. I got 50 signatures to petition the banning of unregulated dumping and exposure to DHMO in the span of and hour at a local grocery store using info similar to what you can find on the link above. Horrified that they had never heard of this dangerous chemical that could be killing their children, pets, and even themselves, many shoppers, some even well educated (Lawyers, Inventment bankers, Accountants...) were all too eager to sign.

Little did they know that Dihydrogen Monoxide is H2O....plain, everyday, WATER!

 

[6606j]

Thanks for the feedback. Good one about the holiday candy. And yes...you'd be hard pressed to get your e-liquid to freeze I would think. However I think it's the Methanol that prevents freezing. The PG or EG (ethylene glycol) are what make it hard to boil. In the southern states you can even fine anti-freezes that do freeze quite easily but have a very hard time overheating. Unfortunately here in the Gulf Coast region around Pensacola, FL it gets well below freezing (20*F low last winter in the dead of night).

Needless to say my point was that there are lots of products that contain mundane everyday even EDIBLE ingredients. It's not fair to pick out a single ingredient from a toxic mixture and conclude that every ingredient is therefore toxic. If I mix bleach with orange juice...that mixture would kill you very effectively, however it's not fair to say that it's the orange juice doing the killing. But things that have chemical-y names get a bad wrap. Perfect example follows:

Beware the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide! Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide. I got 50 signatures to petition the banning of unregulated dumping and exposure to DHMO in the span of and hour at a local grocery store using info similar to what you can find on the link above. Horrified that they had never heard of this dangerous chemical that could be killing their children, pets, and even themselves, many shoppers, some even well educated (Lawyers, Inventment bankers, Accountants...) were all too eager to sign.

Little did they know that Dihydrogen Monoxide is H2O....plain, everyday, WATER!

That is so awesome, lol i love spoof sites like that warning of contamination of everything by every day water lol that was great

 

[Ryle]

But things that have chemical-y names get a bad wrap. Perfect example follows:

Beware the dangers of Dihydrogen Monoxide! Facts About Dihydrogen Monoxide. I got 50 signatures to petition the banning of unregulated dumping and exposure to DHMO in the span of and hour at a local grocery store using info similar to what you can find on the link above. Horrified that they had never heard of this dangerous chemical that could be killing their children, pets, and even themselves, many shoppers, some even well educated (Lawyers, Inventment bankers, Accountants...) were all too eager to sign.

Little did they know that Dihydrogen Monoxide is H2O....plain, everyday, WATER!

Did you tell those people that it was just water??? I'd have loved to reveal that fact to people and watch their reactions when they feel utterly idiotic

 

[happily]

I just tell these people that antifreeze is also a summer coolant and enjoy the heat...........you can't reason with the unreasonable

 

[zazz]

or how about this, sodium benzoate is in nearly everything we eat and drink

"In combination with ascorbic acid (vitamin C, E300), sodium benzoate and potassium benzoate may form benzene[8], a known carcinogen."

oh snap thats right america. wake up to the truth

 

[Mach10X]

Did you know that the FDA allows for certain concentrations of Diethylene Glycol (DEG) in products as safe. I believe that the amount of DEG found in the study were withing FDA regulations.

@zazz
Or you can be like George Carlin.
Since he was such a great comedian (rest in peace), here's the bit I'm referring to:

A lot of people worry that their drinking water isn't safe, because it contains things that cause cancer. Not me. I don't care if the water is safe or not, I drink it anyway. You know why? Because I'm an American, and I expect a little cancer in my water. I'm a loyal citizen and I'm not happy unless government and industry have poisoned me a little every day.

Besides, cancer never hurt anybody. People need a little cancer. It's good for you; it keeps you on your toes. I ain't afraid of cancer, I had broccoli for lunch. Broccoli kills cancer. A lot of people don't know that. It's not out yet.

It's true. You find out you got some cancer, get yourself a f**kin' bowl of broccoli. That'll wipe it right out. Cauliflower, too. Cauliflower kills the really big cancers, the ones you can see from across the street through heavy clothing. Broccoli kills the little ones, the ones that are slowly eating you away from the inside. While your goofy, half-educated dotor keeps telling you, "You're doin' fine, Jim."

In fact, bring your doctor a bowl of broccoli, he's probably got cancer too. Probably picked it up from you. They don't know what they're doing. It's all guesswork in a white coat. What you gotta try to do is develop more than on kind of cancer, so you can turn 'em against one another. That's what you gotta hope for: that the cancers eat each other up instead of you. Fact is, the way I look at it, the more cancer you got, the healthier you are.

 

[evil1rox]

Did you tell those people that it was just water??? I'd have loved to reveal that fact to people and watch their reactions when they feel utterly idiotic

Dihydrogen Monoxide is a fun thing to train people on. I work in the water and waste water industry.

When my trainees start to get the "glazed" expression on their mugs i scare the bejezus out of them with the dihydro. (I let it stew until the end of the seminar too unless someone calls me out on it. )

All things being equal are there e-liquids that don't use propylene glycol..??

E

 

[jen28f]

Water is also an ingredient in anti freeze. So it must be bad. Everyone stop using it now until it receives FDA approval.

 

[P4C0]

Hello all,

Ethylene glycol and Diethylene glycol are both toxics and should be avoided. Regarding the wrong use of DEG there was a death sentence in China. (they were exporting DEG as PG)

Of course with anything else in low amounts it should be safe (check toxicity levels for both on wiki).

On the other hand Propylene glycol is (until now) safe and widely used.

So I supposed that if the FDA found DEG in one cart it must be due to factory issues, low quality standards, a leak during the process or something like that... Also it's possible that they mix it with PG to get more of it (I supposed DEG should be cheaper than PG).

Do we know the brand of the cart where they found DEG? if so IMHO the best is to avoid that provider (and anything that comes from their factories)...