This thread will now be closed because I need this to be the last visible post.
People can vape any strength they like, if they can get hold of the materials. ECF has no opinion on that - it is an individual decision. What we do have a very strong opinion on is that newbs or relative newbs do not try to copy things that can be safe for one person but seriously risky for another.
As we have:
1. A huge volume of beginners starting here on ECF (more than 10,000 a day who can be identified as complete beginners).
2. A problem, in that some will copy everything they see (especially the younger ones), treating it like an acceptable risk, such as bungee jumping.
3. The need for ECF, most importantly, to be the safe and respectable face of vaping - and that comes before the thousand other things it may also be.
This being the case, we stop any discussion of stronger materials, according to the specified levels in the Rules.
Individuals can do what they like, but not when beginners can copy them.
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The technical bit
We have found there is a factor-10 difference in nicotine tolerance, between individuals. As this is easily confirmed, the difference is likely to be slightly higher.
We have had plenty of reports that some individuals cannot tolerate anything over 6mg (0.6%), in a device that performs well [1].
Equally, we are aware of a couple of individuals who vape 60mg (6%), in a top-quality rig. One I've personally met is an extremely experienced individual and I believe him.
For such people I would advise this:
1. Get hold of WTA liquids, of different brands, and try them out with lower strength nic.
2. Also try Snus.
It may be the case that long-term ultra-high nic consumption has no significant effects for such people. On the other hand, once a cardiac arrythmia has developed, there may not be much you can do about it.
High-strength nic for beginners
There is a strong argument, supported by three research trials that I have seen, and one that I haven't but have been told about [2], that clearly demonstrate that naive users with sub-optimal equipment and isolated from support, will receive little or no nicotine.
In this particular case, and where any/all kinds of nic or metabolyte test (very cheap and easily done) shows no appreciable nic delivery, there is an entirely valid argument that such users can be given a much higher strength of nicotine. In fact I have recently been told of research that shows some naive users need about 48mg in order to get decent nic delivery at all. But I have not seen the evidence as yet.
So here are the conflicting issues:
1. We know that beginners with less than perfect gear need a higher nic level. Actually, nobody is arguing about that, as far as I can see.
2. We don't care if very experienced users vape any strength they like. It's their business.
But equally:
1. ECF can't publish instructions on how to vape mega strong nic, for the one in ten thousand who might need it. Too many others will see that and think it's worth trying.
2. What about the situation where a new vaper gets hold of a super-strong refilled device, and is exposed to risk? They might be a user whose head spins at 12mg - what is 60 or 100 going to do to them?
3. What about the situation where family members or children get hold of this stuff. You can face the music over that OK, maybe, but if this happens you are ...... all over the rest of us from a great height. The press will have a field day.
4. What happens when a beginner is hospitalized after following some trick they saw here? It's OK for you - you can wash your hands of it - but we have to carry the can.
This is the problem we have on ECF. Hi-strength nic is OK for a few, but likely to be risky for others, especially the innocent. Why should we all suffer for your pleasure? If you do this kind of thing - keep it to yourself.
There are plenty of people out there who would love nothing better than ECF taken down, because we are one of the biggest factors getting vaping out there, the most visible by far, and one of the easiest targets. You can do what you like - but be aware it impacts others, so don't advertise the things you do that are not suitable for public view.
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Notes
[1] Many devices sold to beginners do not perform well, so there may be an issue with faulty identification of nic levels, for beginners with sub-optimal devices.
[2] We do know that some people need more nic. This isn't the issue.
