Atf?

[JustMeAgain]

Does anyone know where the ATF stands in respect to the tobacco bill?

It's always been my experience that - although it means less work - in reality when it's related to business, people rarely sit still while something is taken out from under the reign of their control. Not to mention that AF doesn't sound nearly as cool as ATF...

I've not heard anything about their stance on the issue, but if this already been discussed and I missed it, could someone point me in the direction of the thread?

 

[balldope]

ATF - Alcohol, tobacco, Firearms.

 

[happily]

Does anyone know where the ATF stands in respect to the tobacco bill?

It's always been my experience that - although it means less work - in reality when it's related to, people rarely sit still while something is taken out from under the reign of their control. Not to mention that AF doesn't sound nearly as cool as ATF...

I've not heard anything about their stance on the issue, but if this already been discussed and I missed it, could someone point me in the direction of the thread?

They're probably sitting around the office drinking our booze and shooting at the moon.............lucky bass turds

 

[jburns]

They're probably sitting around the office drinking our booze and shooting at the moon.............lucky bass turds

There it is. ATF will now be known as LBT

 

[LaceyUnderall]

JustMe - I have had this very same question. I have wondered why they have made no statements... it is curious.

What most concerns me is that the FDA appears to be gaining complete control over everything, and in being given so much control (which is bad in and of itself, one agency having full control over anything and everything and even Dodd said it himself in the Senate debate the other day that the FDA controls everything) has even been quoted as stating that they are so busy, they cannot do their due diligence on ensuring that US based companies are being checked for cleanliness but every two years, relying on the already overworked (and progressively underfunded states to do a job that should be done by the FDA. (ie the recent Peanut Butter fiasco).

It would definitely be nice if the ATF would stand up for themselves. It would have been nice if since day one, they had accepted that these "alternatives to cigarettes" could be in their jurisdiction and fight for their right to control it.

Another interesting thought I have pondered is what is the FCC here for? Aren't they the ones who should be investigating health claims and protecting the consumer from such claims, not the FDA?

There is a place for the FDA, the FCC and the ATF and I believe that with the inception of the ecig and other "recreational drugs" like Red Bull and all of these other "energy" pills and drinks, there should almost be another agency that deals with only these items and I can only imagine that the ATF itself has it's hands full as well.

 

[SS109]

ATFE - yes, they are called the ATFE now - Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives

Personally, I would be damn happy if the ATFE just ceased to exist. We have plenty of other government agencies that can do the same job and do it better.

 

[eric]

You know, I almost agree with you, Lacey, but at the same time introducing a new department of government would just increase government spending and that's just something we can't afford to do at this time (and in my opinion should avoid even when we can). If these guys were doing their damned jobs, stopped worrying about lining their pockets with the fruits of our labors, and start considering the will of the American citizens, I think all of these regulatory matters could easily be handled by two or three (much smaller) departments, perhaps having one in charge of the regulation of consumer goods (non-consumables), the other being in charge of the regulation of food and drugs (imports and exports both).

Of course the members of both departments should be voted in by the citizens, which is NOT currently the case. The current system of the departments of government just doesn't make sense. Why would these departments even consider what the people want if there are no means for us to pass judgment upon them? If they do a crummy job, we can't vote someone else in their position the next year. There's no incentive to abide by our wishes. Or even make an effort to establish what our wishes are in the first place! It needs fixing. If Obama really condones change for the better, he needs to get on the ball, consarnit!

 

[LaceyUnderall]

Eric - I completely agree. Very well thought out argument there. While another department would solve some issues... what makes us think that creating something new would fix the real issues at hand? It wouldn't. It would make the problem bigger. In fantasy land though, a new department would be brilliant... but we have to fix what's broken before spending more.

We have to figure out a way to pull some of the power away from the FDA because honestly, the FDA is getting large enough now that there should be great concern that the FDA actually IS the government. And as you have pointed out, the "government" running this country is not elected by the people and that is definitely a problem.

 

[MrBrown]

The ATF is about enforcement, not regulation. They don't get into making the laws or deciding what is right or wrong, they just enforce what has been set forth by others.

The ATF doesn't care if ecigs are legal or not, nor do they really have an opinion of weather or not they should be. If ecigs become illegal it may fall under to ATF to enforce smuggling and illegal sale, until then, they just don't care.

It's up there with the highway patrol does not set the speed limits, they just write the tickets.

 

[JustMeAgain]

The ATF is about enforcement, not regulation. They don't get into making the laws or deciding what is right or wrong, they just enforce what has been set forth by others.

Yes, but isn't enforcement what's missing that has allowed this whole thing to masquerade under the guise of 'it's all about the children'?

And exactly what is the FDA going to do that isn't already being done to keep tobacco out of the hands of 'the children'. Anyone else sick of that phrase?

Seriously, there isn't anything else to do...unless you think that limiting advertising to black and white will matter. How lame.

I think the gov't. has decided they're in the business of parenting. Think about it: They take responsibility for getting kids to school, feeding them (breakfast & lunch here) educating them, babysitting them (after hours programs which also provide a snack) and there was talk a few years back about making spanking illegal.

I'm not saying any of that is good or bad as far as providing services, but what really gets me is there've been several situations here when a parent would go shopping w/their teenager and the parent has been refused the sale of liquor b/c they might give it to their kid.

A few years ago I was in WalMart & had some wine in my cart. My 11 y/o son was with me and as I was leaving the clerk said 'you'd better not let him push that cart'. I asked why and she said it was illegal b/c there was alcohol in it. I asked if she'd like to come home w/me and see who was going to carry in the groceries.

Frankly, IMHO it should be legal to teach your child to learn to drink under your supervision at home rather than wait until they're out with their friends which only makes it more taboo. And we all know taboo = fun to kids.

Thank God I'm not in politics, or we all might just run amok...

 

[Kewtsquirrel]

The ATF is about enforcement, not regulation. They don't get into making the laws or deciding what is right or wrong, they just enforce what has been set forth by others.

The ATF doesn't care if ecigs are legal or not, nor do they really have an opinion of weather or not they should be. If ecigs become illegal it may fall under to ATF to enforce smuggling and illegal sale, until then, they just don't care.

It's up there with the highway patrol does not set the speed limits, they just write the tickets.

Actually, the ATF regularly just makes up new regulations and no one has been able to call them on it, they've been overstepping their bounds for years.

Just ask the guy who had a malfunction on unmodified ar-15 that caused a slamfire, he's now in prison for possession of a machine gun.

The agency that classified a shoestring as a machine gun, and yes, you read that right, a shoestring, is NOT an agency we want regulating E-cigs.

If you had a pack of snus and a bottle of PG you'd be looking at creative intent in the ATFs eyes and sent to prison for manufacturing a controlled substance.

 

[SS109]

Actually, the ATF regularly just makes up new regulations and no one has been able to call them on it, they've been overstepping their bounds for years.

Just ask the guy who had a malfunction on unmodified ar-15 that caused a slamfire, he's now in prison for possession of a machine gun.

The agency that classified a shoestring as a machine gun, and yes, you read that right, a shoestring, is NOT an agency we want regulating E-cigs.

If you had a pack of snus and a bottle of PG you'd be looking at creative intent in the ATFs eyes and sent to prison for manufacturing a controlled substance.

+1

The ATFE is the worst government agency in existance. They make up rules and code as they see fit.

 

[Txrider]

Frankly, IMHO it should be legal to teach your child to learn to drink under your supervision at home rather than wait until they're out with their friends which only makes it more taboo. And we all know taboo = fun to kids.

As far as I know it is legal, at least here in Texas, if that changed I didn't hear about it.

So of the the FDA gets tobacco, why not alcohol as well, it is after all a drug...

This is going to get real dicey. If congress hands over tobacco to the FDA, but denies them ability to ban cigarettes, then the FDA moves from science/safety backed regulator, to a politics based regulator... Not a good move.

 

[Roadmaster]

About the FDA getting more authority with the proposed bill. Seems Homeland Security which has become this huge new goverment monilith should give them an idea of what happens when one authority gets too big! Big Brother all over again. Too big to be held accountable, even when they mess up.

 

[Cancer]

getting overworked and underfunded. They will not be able to stop the small orders and just like the drug war...us outlaws will win. Seriously if a ban is effective in importation, the modders will sell PV's underground,people will make juice themselve's and grow Tobacco, carts are reusable and easy to make or buy online. I know some member's are older,less inclined to deal with these hassles. Yet if you are here,all the information is available. Join a vaper's group near you and I know i would help a older member who couldn't help themselves. Relax, this government spent BILLIONS and never found one man{BIN LADEN}, so i think your orders are safe LOL

 

[JustMeAgain]

The agency that classified a shoestring as a machine gun, and yes, you read that right, a shoestring, is NOT an agency we want regulating E-cigs.quote]

Shoestring? I want to hear more about that one...

I swear this whole country has turned into a bunch of nuts...well, except for the vapors, of course.

 

[JustMeAgain]

us outlaws will win.

Wow, and I've never even had a speeding ticket. Now I get to be an outlaw...how cool is that?

All of a sudden the problems sound more like fun...Bring it! wheeeeee​

 

[Kewtsquirrel]

The agency that classified a shoestring as a machine gun, and yes, you read that right, a shoestring, is NOT an agency we want regulating E-cigs.quote]

Shoestring? I want to hear more about that one...

I swear this whole country has turned into a bunch of nuts...well, except for the vapors, of course.

They actually finally redacted their position in 2007, now the shoestring itself isn't a machinegun, but the rifle is. After 11 years. Heh.

Edit: With the ATFs current "once a machinegun, always a machinegun" rule, if you had video of you firing a semi-auto AK47 with a string in such a manner that it was firing without conscious manipulation of the trigger, they could charge you for possession of a machinegun at any time, or worse if you sold said rifle they could charge you with selling a machinegun, and you be going to federal pound me in the ... prison for a very long time.

 

[lordmage]

the ATF or what ever it is called is an enforcing body which would help enforce any FDA policy in regards to bans that is what one of their functions are. think of it this way FDA handles imports ATF handles domestic enforcement should that be required .