Bad e-cig experience / A word of caution to musicians and audio people

[jfu222]

I don't believe the ecigs would have anything to do with your tinnitus. I see all kind of threads about health issues that people think are a result of vaping. I think it's just coincidence. It seems like these are things that would have happened anyway but since they started vaping they are blaming things on the vaping.

I've had tinnitus for years. I've been vaping for about six months and haven't noticed any change one way or the other in my tinnitus. I've had to learn to ignore the noise. If I concentrated on the noise it would drive me crazy. If I don't think about it I don't hear it. That said in a career where you're hearing is a critical part of the job I can definitely understand how it would effect you. It also seems there is very little if anything that can be done with tinnitus.

Thanks Bluesnake ... yeah I'm still working on the acceptance part of it I guess. It's only been 2 months but 24/7 high pitch frequency ringing is driving me nuts. I agree with you though and most of the work I need to do moving forward is going to be mental (and diet / exercise)

Vaping for me was awesome but yeah .. it got to the point that every single time I took a drag the ringing just came right on. Even at low doses every single drag ...bam ....wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee (that's my ringing sound ;-) )

 

[subversive]

It doesn't make sense, jfu222. I'm sorry you have this problem, but telling people to be cautious about vaping because of tinnitus just isn't logical when they are already getting nicotine from cigarettes. E-cigs do not deliver nicotine as quickly as cigarettes. If you smoke a pack a day ( smoking the cigarettes in their entirety ), you are absorbing 20-25 mg of nic per day. There are theories out there that we only absorb 20-30% of the nic in e-cigs. If that's correct and you vape 3 ml per day of 24mg liquid, you are still getting equivalent nicotine levels as a pack of smokes, but without the sudden spike that cigarettes give. Of course, if someone is getting a headache or dizziness, then they need to put the PV down for a bit, but the same thing happens when you smoke a few too many cigarettes.

One drag on a low mg e-cig should not be causing ringing in your ears. I'm very skeptical, but my intention wasn't to piss you off. My intention was to keep newbies from reading this thread and panicking.

 

[jfu222]

It doesn't make sense, jfu222. I'm sorry you have this problem, but telling people to be cautious about vaping because of tinnitus just isn't logical when they are already getting nicotine from cigarettes. E-cigs do not deliver nicotine as quickly as cigarettes. If you smoke a pack a day ( smoking the cigarettes in their entirety ), you are absorbing 20-25 mg of nic per day. There are theories out there that we only absorb 20-30% of the nic in e-cigs. If that's correct and you vape 3 ml per day of 24mg liquid, you are still getting equivalent nicotine levels as a pack of smokes, but without the sudden spike that cigarettes give. Of course, if someone is getting a headache or dizziness, then they need to put the PV down for a bit, but the same thing happens when you smoke a few too many cigarettes.

One drag on a low mg e-cig should not be causing ringing in your ears. I'm very skeptical, but my intention wasn't to piss you off. My intention was to keep newbies from reading this thread and panicking.

- No I'm not ...... at all subversive.
- I too am skeptical of the theories you described in your reply. They can be considered equally unsubstantiated.
- I definitely don't want to panic anyone, but the fact is that nobody here really knows 100% of the effects because there just hasn't been enough research. So newbies (like myself) should be aware of both sides of the e-cig coin. Fun/awesome stories as well as experiences that aren't so much fun.
- As i said before. E-cigs are awesome, This is not about bashing the integrity of vaping or the obvious health benefits to switching to e-cigs from analogs. Most people won't ever experience what I am experiencing which is also awesome.
- But if there's a newbie out there that might have occasional ear ringing and considering vaping for the first time you bet your ... i am going to share my experience and advise that they start slowly to make sure this doesn't happen to them as well.
- If they take my advice great. If not, that's cool too. Honestly either way they are still vaping and easing into it will not hurt anyone's experience or the movement to present Vaping as a much better alternative to analogs. So I don't know why anyone would be panicking or afraid by what I've shared here.

 

[Uncle Willie]

Hi Uncle Willie .. thanks for reading and responding. For me it's more of an extreme aggravator than a definite cause. So I most likely had some form of it and then after OD'ing a bunch of times (not on 6MG but on 24mg's ...then 12mgs.. then it din't matter what i vaped)

There's tons of info/links if you google nicotine/tinnitus and it basically boils down to it restricting blood flow. (like caffeine)

I guess I am still in the adjustment phase of learning to live with it. Or live with it at this level.

Anyway. Thanks again. It's always inspiring when I hear about people learning to live with it and be happy. That's my goal.

I owned and ran a mid-level outdoor concert PA system for many years before I went into semi-retirement .. in the early years, hearing protection was uncommon and many of my generation that worked within the music business suffer from partial deafness / tinnitus / total deafness / etc .. you will find many well known folks have the issue ..

In time, some of us adapt to it .. others cannot adapt and require a masking device .. there are, of course, snake oil cures available that I've tried and never had any luck with ..

It's strange, but I can be at a concert/bar/venue for a couple hours and when I leave, I have no ringing for several hours ..

As well, I don't want to be an alarmist, however, it can in some cases be an indicator of a more serious condition ..

 

[Schnarph]

I too started to notice permanent tinnitus when I started vaping. The only good thing I can tell you is that I happened to notice the ear ringing a few weeks before I stated vaping. If it had happened at the same time, I would not be vaping right now. I am pretty sure that on a few occasions while drinking a bit, I may have overdone it in regards to nicotine, kinda like a hot flash, I guess. I have not had any increase in the loudness of the ringing in regards to how much 24mg juice I vape. I am only 40, but I have spent WAY too much time listening to loud music in my car, headphones, clubs, and concerts. Using a few chainsaws to their death, years of powertools and riding a VERY loud, high pitched motorcycle never using any kind of hearing protection has taken it's toll on me.

I've read about some unpleasant reactions some people have to PG, but not tinnitus. If you think it's the vaping of nicotine that spikes the tinnitus, why not try some 0% nicotine juice? If that makes things worse, you and vaping aren't going to get along at all. Sorry man, I feel your pain. The pain part, not the nic-fit part.

 

[finland91]

I am a professional musician, to be more specific a singer. When I smoked analogs I had a problem with coughing and crap in my throat, but that has gone away now. I have never had a constant tinnitus and after gigs when I do, haven't noticed it worsening when vaping.

 

[dsy5]

OP has never said what level of nic he/she started using, but said that he/she didn't gauge correctly and overdosed. Were you mixing your own or what? 36mg is not uncommon for many - I vape it and don't have any symptoms such as headache or nausea, nor tinnitus.

 

[congaman]

I've played drums professionally for 38 years and have tinnitus. At times i can barley hear myself think! Now, I .........What was i talking about? Oh well, keep rockin'!

 

[Caridwen]

Moved to Health Safety and E-Smoking.

 

[rolygate]

There are many interesting accounts of things that show up after stopping cigarette smoking, and medical knowledge in this area is very sparse. Some serious diseases even present after smoking cessation, more often than should occur, and there is a statistical correlation between the two events.

In your case it would be interesting to see if a whole tobacco product made any difference - either Snus or WTA ecig refills. It's just a thought; the reasoning is that one or two of the active alkaloids in tobacco have a noted anti-inflammatory action, and removing them might conceivably affect a small number of persons.

It could be worth a try, anyway, in the absence of any other solution.

 

[NamVet68]

Tinnitus can manifest itself many years after exposure, and usually starts suddenly many years later as you age (sorry, you're getting older - accept it). I highly doubt that it is vaping related however, but I recommend you see an ear doctor.

I was exposed to VERY loud noises when in Vietnam in the late 60's - a full-blown rock concert is nothing compared to being on a firebase right next to 105, 155, & 8 inch guns going off all day & night! Hearing protection was never even considered back then. I never had problems with tinnitus until I QUIT smoking ten years ago. I don't know if it was related to that or not. I went to an ear doctor, and he basically said that it was a combination of the noise exposure & aging. We tried a couple of medication regimes, and testing, but nothing really helped.

I have just learned to live with it, and over time, it kind of fades into the background. Just part of getting older....

 

[jfu222]

Hi dsy5

I started on 24mg then 12mg and then 6mg ..hen I just quit altogether. Nicotine and smoke free for about 5 weeks now.

 

[jfu222]

heh heh .. i hear you man.

I am getting better each day with dealing with tinnitus full time. Sometimes it's still overbearing at times, but yeah ... sometimes you just gotta keep rockin' (with better earplugs ;-)

 

[jfu222]

There are many interesting accounts of things that show up after stopping cigarette smoking, and medical knowledge in this area is very sparse. Some serious diseases even present after smoking cessation, more often than should occur, and there is a statistical correlation between the two events.

In your case it would be interesting to see if a whole tobacco product made any difference - either Snus or WTA ecig refills. It's just a thought; the reasoning is that one or two of the active alkaloids in tobacco have a noted anti-inflammatory action, and removing them might conceivably affect a small number of persons.

It could be worth a try, anyway, in the absence of any other solution.

Thanks so much for your reply rolygate. I basically just stopped taking in any tobacco or nicotine until I can get a better handle on this thing. (tinnitus)

It's been about 4-5 weeks nic free.

I know the science is fuzzy on e-cigs and also on tinnitus.

So I just want to be clear with everyone again and say this is how e-cigs effected ME. I really don't want anyone walking away from this thread thinking that I am telling everyone that this will happen to you.

But everybody has a different body make-up, tolerance, genetics ..etc. So there is a chance that what I think happened actually did happen (that somehow the EONSMOKE juice or nicotine severely and permanently aggravated a mild case of tinnitus). I just happen to know myself and my body really well so I was able to easily pinpoint the beginning of this now permanent ringing and sensitivity to sound (hyperacusis)

So as I mentioned before (I probably wasn't clear enough that's all) I put this thread out there to hopefully influence someone to proceed with caution if you've had some hearing damage rather than jump right into e-cigs with tons of nicotine and vaping all day long from the start.

 

[Nocujo]

subversive, I too had problems with the amount of nicotine in my 1st order of ejuices having been led to believe that 24 mg would closely approximate my marlboro red analog consumption.
i immediately ordered 0 mg "cutters" for the juices i had ordered and experimented down to 8 mg. which seems to suit me fine.
You didn't mention if you had these issues when smoking analogs-it would seem logical that you would have...
Out of curosity I "wikied" tinnunitus and down the page is a list of prominent folks with this affliction MOST of whom were musicians....?
Age plays a factor as does genetics.
I'm a musician also and can only imagine how this interferes with your art.
Anyhoo, just wanted to give my on the subject as I have several friends with varying levels of it
Hope you find YOUR answer..just consider all the possibilities and vape-on

 

[BlackBirdCD]

Just chiming in with my experience with tinnitus - I've had it as well, although I'm not a musician. I have been around a lot of loud things, enough to contribute to my condition in my 45 years.

I can attest that in my case the tinnitus has been present when I was smoking analog cigarettes, when I've quit, and still now when I'm on e-cigs. It does get worse when I've had too much nicotine, but it never goes way. The unfortunate part of tinnitus is that its onset can be gradual, but once present it's nearly impossible to treat. I'm no expert on the matter, granted, but I've been tested for it and the only recommendations I've received to date are to consider hearing devices that offset the sound range I'm experiencing - similar to noise reduction earphones.

Good luck!

 

[Koman]

Damn, I know tinnitus. I've had it for a while. It sucks

 

[Hoofhearted62]

I have Tinnitus as well , former Bass player in several bands, Country, Classic Rock, and a Pink Floyd Tribute band. I am able to control the severity of my Tinnitus symptoms very easily with an over the counter product that you can find at almost any Wal Mart and local drug store.. its called Lipoflavanoid. there are also generic versions from walgreens and other pharmacies. ask your local drug store for any tinnitus medications. its normally found right on the shelf. no prescription needed..it has worked wonders for me. good luck

 

[Bliss Doubt]

I'm still a DJ on radio, not in clubs, but in my younger days I did radio and night clubs, and went to lots of concerts. With my ears unprotected, I spent a lot of time surrounded by loud music. I'd probably kill myself with self loathing over the tinnitus except for one thing. It started before I took up DJ work and the resulting night club work and concert attendance, and it never got any worse because of those things. You never know if or when tinnitus will kick in. Our ears are more delicate than we think. Mine isn't bad, compared to what others have described, but it does bug me sometimes. I think you get used to it somewhat. I remember having brief bouts of it as a kid. I thought it was just the sound of the universe that you sometimes pick up in a very quiet, still situation. Then it would go away. Now it never goes away. Vaping hasn't made it increase or decrease. My two cents.

 

[JimSmith94]

I am also a 40+ year musician with tinnitus and high frequency hearing loss. I've only been vaping for about six months but I didn't notice any change in the tinnitus one way or the other.

What has made a huge difference was getting hearing aids a couple months ago. As long as they are in, I hardly notice any ringing at all. If I wait to take them out just before going to bed, I can fall asleep before it starts again.