Bait & Switch Law w/SmokeStik? Is There A Lawyer In The House?

[RebelCat62]

I started using SmokeStik in April of this year. I had gone from being a 4 pk a day smoker to 1/4 pk a day and was about to quit completely.
Then suddenly in mid to late August, I got a bad batch that were dry. Or at least that's what SmokeStik says happened. So they sent me out replacement carts.
So you'll understand a bit more, I had ordered 2/50pks of the Full Flavor to get a free Atomizer and those were the dry ones. But before I realized that, I had gone ahead and ordered an additional 2/50 pks for another atomizer as well before they stopped the offer. So there were 200 carts being dealt with here, because I had no reason to think I wouldn't use them all.
When I got the new carts, they were weak. I swore they sent me the wrong ones. My old Medium Flavor ones were stronger than these were. So I called, and was told that they had changed their chemistry. But I still thought I had maybe been sent the wrong ones because of the drastic difference. So they replaced them again. But it was the same thing, they were weak.
This time though when I called, I was being made to feel like it was "me" and not the carts. But they agreed to once again replace them, only this time they asked me to ship back what I had not used at my expense, which at the time I understood.
After getting the next batch and finding there was still an issue, I was very upset because I don't like being a problem customer. But when I called this time, I was finally told that others were also complaining and that the company was working on a stronger chemistry again. I was then told to give them 1 to 1 1/2 weeks to get the stronger ones ready and they would call me and replace what I had left, but that I should use them as best I could til then. That was a week ago, but I wasn't able too use many, because they just don't cut it. Now I know why.

If you search their site (you have to dig because it's not out in the open), they now say that their product does NOT contain Nicotine!

They did not contact their customers or their distributors ahead of time and tell them, they only find out now when they call I assume. I found out on this board.

They let me order and replace over and over 200 carts, then kept me hanging on the line with a false promise, never once telling me what they were doing. I trusted them and so while waiting spent money I might not have had too buying real cigs again waiting for them to fix their issue. I also put my health at more risk once again with those cigs (I have 2nd Stage Emphysema, COPD and Asthma). As well as the emotional effects it's had on me, making me feel it was "Me", etc. I also have Fibromyalgia and all this has caused my anxiety level to sky rocket, which if you know anything about Fibromyalgia, also caused my pain level to sky rocket too.

So my question is (sorry for such a long set up), whould I have a case against them based on Bait & Switch laws, or anything else?

 

[mach]

You should buy a 30 ml of eliquid ( try totallywicked ) and top up the SmokeStik carts with that. Buying carts is a P.I.T.A. My friend has a Stik and refills all the time. You'll then just replace each cart occasionally when it gets gross.

 

[RebelCat62]

You should buy a 30 ml of eliquid ( try totallywicked ) and top up the SmokeStik carts with that. Buying carts is a P.I.T.A. My friend has a Stik and refills all the time. You'll then just replace each cart occasionally when it gets gross.

I'm actually in the process of getting the liquid and a filler material (PTB) so I can do this, but thanks. The town I'm in is so small, I had to order the tea bags too. lol.

But that doesn't change they way the company has handled this. I just now called and demanded a refund in full for everything and they're suppose to be having their accounting dept get back to me on it. We'll see what happens there when they call...if they call.

 

[HaploVoss]

I agree with mach, and also as far as your lawsuit goes - no amount of principle is going to make up the cost it would take you to sue them vs. how much it cost you for the 200 carts. Seriously - the amount of money it will cost you to take them to court would be ridiculous compared to how much you have spent on the carts.

I would simply lodge a complaint, and inform others as best you can. If you want to hurt a company's pocketbook, you take away their customers.

I have no experience with this company so I am not going to sit here and agree with everything and yell 'Go get 'em!!' - but for sake of argument - that's my .02

Take care and I hope it all works out in the end.
- Hap

 

[RebelCat62]

I agree with mach, and also as far as your lawsuit goes - no amount of principal is going to make up the cost it would take you to sue them vs. how much it cost you for the 200 carts. Seriously - the amount of money it will cost you to take them to court would be ridiculous compared to how much you have spent on the carts.

I would simply lodge a complaint, and inform others as best you can. If you want to hurt a company's pocketbook, you take away their customers.

I have no experience with this company so I am not going to sit here and agree with everything and yell 'Go get 'em!!' - but for sake of argument - that's my .02

Take care and I hope it all works out in the end.
- Hap

I don't expect anyone to agree with me or jump on my bandwagon, and I do appreciate your input on this. And if all I wanted was to recover for the "equipment", then your right, it would be insane to go after them. But what about the emotional? That's what I'm curious about.

And just to say this. I'm not a sue happy person. I've never done it before. I'd like to think I'm a nice person. Too nice most of the time. And right now, I'm just a bit tired of being nice and getting screwed. That's all.

 

[bitey]

I don't know what state you live in (assuming that you are in the US), but most consumer protection laws are based on state statutes. You could check this out by 1) reading the appropriate section of your state's revised code and 2) going to the Web page of your state's Attorney General and finding the link for your state's consumer protection where your rights are explained in language for non-attorneys.

If you have a claim (and it's a big if at this point), your remedies would be laid out under your state's code. There are federal consumer protection laws as well; however, most state's laws mirror the federal laws and then add more protection on top of that.

I don't think "bait and switch" is probably a claim you can make because that phrase means something very specific under the law, but you might have "something." The real question is whether you are enough money to make it worth your while to actually hire a consumer law attorney and take on the costs of pursuing them or whether as the poster above suggested you should just buy some good high nic juice and refill your own cartridges.

I don't know if anyone else has cartridges that fit that particular model of e-cig; but if someone does, then you might want to shop from a different supplier. BTW, nothing in this post is meant to be legal advice and should not be taken as such. Good luck.

 

[Nuck]

Did you get all your money back?

 

[RebelCat62]

bitey, NO legal advice assumed. but thank you. that's good advice and I'll check it out. I thought about my states AG last night, then forgot all about it this morning.

Nuck, I'm waiting for their accounting dept to call me to find out how much they'll refund. I'm pretty positive I can at least get the carts refunded. But after thinking about it, I called them back and said I want refunded for everything I've bought recently, which includes 8 batteries and 5 chargers.
Yeah I had a lot of batteries and chargers, but I was rippin through them cause I'm such a heavy smoker.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

I don't expect anyone to agree with me or jump on my bandwagon, and I do appreciate your input on this. And if all I wanted was to recover for the "equipment", then your right, it would be insane to go after them. But what about the emotional? That's what I'm curious about.

And just to say this. I'm not a sue happy person. I've never done it before. I'd like to think I'm a nice person. Too nice most of the time. And right now, I'm just a bit tired of being nice and getting screwed. That's all.

Now, you're probably gonna jump down my throat, here - and I'm donning my flame-......ant suit as I type this for the battering I'm sure to get, but.........

I am glad that you describe yourself as not 'sue happy,' but when you ask this kind of question, you have been bitten by the 'sue bug,' so to speak...
The concept - of suing a company for 'emotional distress' is plain, dead wrong....invented by the trial lawyers for their profit, not the profit of the consumer.....
in short: If the concept of a monetary reward for your 'emotional anguish' is enough to get you through said anguish, then it's not that painful and you need to get over it....Shake your head, acknowledge ya got took, and accept that you learned something. Yes, expensive lessons suck, but they stick with you for a long time.

You may commence flaming, now........

 

[RebelCat62]

Now, you're probably gonna jump down my throat, here - and I'm donning my flame-......ant suit as I type this for the battering I'm sure to get, but.........

I am glad that you describe yourself as not 'sue happy,' but when you ask this kind of question, you have been bitten by the 'sue bug,' so to speak...
The concept - of suing a company for 'emotional distress' is plain, dead wrong....invented by the trial lawyers for their profit, not the profit of the consumer.....
in short: If the concept of a monetary reward for your 'emotional anguish' is enough to get you through said anguish, then it's not that painful and you need to get over it....Shake your head, acknowledge ya got took, and accept that you learned something. Yes, expensive lessons suck, but they stick with you for a long time.

You may commence flaming, now........

I don't jump down throats that easily darlin. I believe in the 1st Amendment. Now I may not agree with what you've said, but I do respect it. ;-)

 

[bitey]

Now, you're probably gonna jump down my throat, here - and I'm donning my flame-......ant suit as I type this for the battering I'm sure to get, but.........

I am glad that you describe yourself as not 'sue happy,' but when you ask this kind of question, you have been bitten by the 'sue bug,' so to speak...
The concept - of suing a company for 'emotional distress' is plain, dead wrong....invented by the trial lawyers for their profit, not the profit of the consumer.....
in short: If the concept of a monetary reward for your 'emotional anguish' is enough to get you through said anguish, then it's not that painful and you need to get over it....Shake your head, acknowledge ya got took, and accept that you learned something. Yes, expensive lessons suck, but they stick with you for a long time.

You may commence flaming, now........

No flaming here, just explaining. Usually, to sue for emotional harm, you need to be able to show physical harm. You would then also have to have months of bills from a therapist who was helping you deal with the "trauma" of the situation. You would also usually have to prove financial harm in a documented amount that is tied directly to the physical and emotional harm (after you prove them). No, the concept of emotional trauma is not "made up" by anyone, much less trial attorneys. It is a valid cause of action, but only in very specific, grievous situations.

In consumer matters it usually only occurs when a company knows that a product they are selling is horribly harming some users, but they choose not to fix the product because it is cheaper to just pay off the folks that are hurt by it or they just lie and try to cover up the defect. You should remember Pintos that Ford knew tended to turn your car into a fireball if you were rear-ended. Someone horribly disfigured for life, who endures months if not years of painful therapy, who now looks like a freak and has no use of their hands at all (or what is left of them) could also claim emotional damages. The callous actions of the company plus the person's horrible physical damage, plus the psychological depression and anxiety would all be taken into account. In this example, there would be little doubt in the minds of the jury members that the person suffered emotional pain because none of them could imagine going through the rest of life that messed up and not having emotional pain.

No offense, but lack of nicotine in a set of cartridges hardly rises to the level of harm necessary. Once again, this is not legal advise, but only explanation.

 

[RebelCat62]

No flaming here, just explaining. Usually, to sue for emotional harm, you need to be able to show physical harm. You would then also have to have months of bills from a therapist who was helping you deal with the "trauma" of the situation. You would also usually have to prove financial harm in a documented amount that is tied directly to the physical and emotional harm (after you prove them). No, the concept of emotional trauma is not "made up" by anyone, much less trial attorneys. It is a valid cause of action, but only in very specific, grievous situations.

In consumer matters it usually only occurs when a company knows that a product they are selling is horribly harming some users, but they choose not to fix the product because it is cheaper to just pay off the folks that are hurt by it or they just lie and try to cover up the defect. You should remember Pintos that Ford knew tended to turn your car into a fireball if you were rear-ended. Someone horribly disfigured for life, who endures months if not years of painful therapy, who now looks like a freak and has no use of their hands at all (or what is left of them) could also claim emotional damages. The callous actions of the company plus the person's horrible physical damage, plus the psychological depression and anxiety would all be taken into account. In this example, there would be little doubt in the minds of the jury members that the person suffered emotional pain because none of them could imagine going through the rest of life that messed up and not having emotional pain.

No offense, but lack of nicotine in a set of cartridges hardly rises to the level of harm necessary. Once again, this is not legal advise, but only explanation.

Ok, now that does make a lot of sense. And I have calmed down considerably since this morning. I'm just so dang tired of feeling like I'm bent over and passing someone a bottle of Vaseline, yanno. And I hate (excuse the pun) having smoke blown up my ....! But ya'll are probably right and I should just let it go.
The only thing that's keeping me from giving it up 100% just yet, is the fact that I never got that call from their accounting dept today. So I'm still feelin smoke being blown. So I guess I call them again tomorrow and see what excuse they have this time.

But I do thank ya'll and appreciate and respect ALL the input ya'll have given me today. I'll post after I have any new info. ;-)

 

[MrKai]

...people...don't want the likes of the FDA involved?

Funny, that. This is EXACTLY their job. You realize that, right?

See my post (thissite/forum/law-e-cigarette/31565-email-i-got-fda-10.html#post572062) as to why this is exactly why this is beginning to happen.

And this forum software is buggy; it seems to believe a link to itself qualifies as "other sites" lol.

-K

 

[AngusATAT]

And this forum software is buggy; it seems to believe a link to itself qualifies as "other sites" lol.

-K

No, the forum isn't buggy. You're just not allowed to post links on the forum until after you reach 15 posts. Part of the anti-spam controls.

 

[RebelCat62]

I finally was able to get them on the phone and the CS girl told me she had spoken to the VP who offered to reimburse me for everything minus 15% for the time I was happy with the product. I thought that was fair, but they also wanted me to ship everything back. I also understood that, but since I'm wanting to try refilling the carts, I agreed to only get reimbursed for the 200 carts that I was never happy with and forget the rest of it. That way I can keep the batteries, etc. and try re-filling.

As for pursuing any possible legal action, ya'll have given me a lot of good sensible advice and I'm taking it. Besides, after a night of thinking about ALL the other garbage I have to deal with in my life, like a husband with medical issues just to name one, the last thing I really need is to start an uphill legal battle with anyone. So as someone here posted, I'm just chalking this up to lesson learned, and moving on.

But I do thank ya'll for responding to this thread and giving me your time and opinions.

 

[halfevildruid]

I have noticed many of these sites now only offering 0 nic that used to offer all levels. I wonder if they know something we don't?

 

[SudokuGal]

Rebel, glad you got a resolution that was agreeable to you. Half, I think they're just hedging their bets until the FDA/SE & Njoy case is settled.

 

[billster88]

Please message me in private and I will help to take care of anything you may need....this is a new horizon we are approaching as far as an industry goes...we definitely don't want unhappy customers ...I am not sure if I am allowed to post what our company is doing as far as new products are concerned ...so in keeping with that I shall ask that if anyone is unhappy to please let me know and I will help alleviate the issue as best I can...again ..sorry for the mixup...you should have been notified that we no longer sell nicotine in our products ...thanks

Bill

 

[TaketheRedPill]

"If you search their site (you have to dig because it's not out in the open), they now say that their product does NOT contain Nicotine! "
Under FAQ: How do the ingredients in a SmokeStik compare to a traditional tobacco cigarette? Answer
The SmokeStik contains: propylene glycol, tobacco flavoring, along with other natural and artificial flavorings.
Under Starter Kit description:
Starter Kit Key Features:
Looks, feels and tastes like a real cigarette
Delivers all the pleasures of smoking without the social restrictions, second-hand smoke, nicotine or carcinogens.


Was this not there when you ordered initially? can you prove it? Are you aware that the FDA is attempting to ban sales of nicotine-delivery devices? If you did take this to court, and a full-on ban is in effect while you're standing before the judge pleading your case, I'm sure you can imagine how fast your case would be tossed. If you are a part of this forum for any length of time, the coming/current ban should be no new news to you.

You did get customer service in that they did replace the carts, twice (three times?) so you have, what? 400 or 600 carts now?. I'd put the nic-free carts up on the swap page, find a supplier that is still willing to sell nicotine-based carts, (or simply buy nicotine e-juices and refill the carts you have already) and call it a day. Help yourself come to the realization that in a week, or two, or three, you will most likely not be able to purchase nicotine and Smokestik will not be the only company unable to sell nicotine to you without violating federal laws.

IMO asking for ALL your batteries and atomizers to be refunded also, is a going a bit overboard, since they were not the original complaint, you did use them, and you apparently intend to continue to use them.

It's true that stress can aggravate existing medical conditions, but it seems to me, if you can sell all the carts you got for free, you'll probably end up with the cost of your batteries, etc, covered anyway, and you'll have lot less stress in your life than try to convince a judge he should award you a monetary judgement just because you can't get a supplier to sell you an item banned/about-to-be-banned. JMO I am not a lawyer and I am not affiliated in any way with Smokestik, nor am I a customer of Smokestik. Feel better.

 

[SudokuGal]

You did get customer service in that they did replace the carts, twice (three times?) so you have, what? 400 or 600 carts now?. I'd put the nic-free carts up on the swap page, find a supplier that is still willing to sell nicotine-based carts, (or simply buy nicotine e-juices and refill the carts you have already) and call it a day. Help yourself come to the realization that in a week, or two, or three, you will most likely not be able to purchase nicotine and Smokestik will not be the only company unable to sell nicotine to you without violating federal laws.

Did you not read her last post? She reached a resolution she could live with.

You were quite condescending in your post and I don't get it, especially if you had read the whole thread. Smokestik USED to sell carts with nicotine...they changed to no-nic but didn't let current users know. I had to go to their website to verify the change. At one point, the FAQ still had a question regarding the nicotine.

So, are you a troll for ASH?????