Banana Nut Bread from "Scratch"?

[lirruping]

I'm researching DIY ejuice and trying to get a general feel for what's involved in creating flavors. I've noticed that common and popular flavors seem to be able to broken down to certain elements and no further. For example, recipes for Banana Nut Bread--which I at first assumed would have at least three flavoring components--tend to have one: Banana Nut Bread flavoring

People who DIY (and vendors, from what I can tell) sometimes use a flavor like "Cinnamon Roll"--another example of what I mean-- or "Glazed Donut" or "Yellow Cake" as a base for more complex flavors, but I never see recipes for these basic, bready/cakey sorts of flavors themselves.

Does anybody have any ideas about how one might go about creating, say, a realistic flavored yeasty and fried-tasting donut flavored ejuice without using a donut flavor from a manufacturer to begin with? Or the "bread" in BNB! I had such plans for that flavor until I started getting the impression I wasn't going to find it on its own. I hope I'm wrong about this.

Thanks in advance for any tips!

 

[Soignee]

Unless you are a flavor chemist, it comes down to working out each individual flavor component as a percentage then working out combining all of the flavor components into a cohesive flavor. It boils down to compounding flavors together. For example, your Banana Nut Bread:

Basic flavor components:
Banana
Nuts
Bread
Additional flavoring (Vanilla/Cinnamon or whatever spices you like in you BNB.)

So, you need to work out your Banana flavoring and it's percentage that tastes correct to you. At the same time, Pear also shares the same flavor chemistry as Banana, so perhaps you need to work out a percentage for Pear flavor and later combine that with your Banana.

Then you need to work on your Nut flavor (let's assume Walnut). Nut flavors are a fairly straight forward but have a tendency for many to taste rancid or sour unless you can find a fresh source of natural flavoring as the natural acids degrade rapidly. Failing this, you need to find an artificial flavor and still work out the percentages.

The Bread part is really the tough one. Basic components are; flour, sugar, salt, leavening (baking powder and baking soda) which DO effect flavor, egg and fat. So now you are left with finding flavors for:

Flour, you could use Acetyl Pyrazine in very small amounts or it will taste like Frito's! So again, you are working out a percentage of flavor.
Sugar, you could use sucralose, stevia, brown sugar (extra or not), caramel, ethyl maltol etc...So again, you are working out a percentage of flavor.
Salt, you could use saline solution. So again, you are working out a percentage of flavor.
Leavening, I've got nothing here, but they are acidic in nature. So maybe citric acid... So again, you are working out a percentage of flavor.
Egg, Custard flavor bases so your Vanilla is covered. So again, you are working out a percentage of flavor.
Fat, Butter flavor bases. So again, you are working out a percentage of flavor.

Additional flavoring is more of the same...find the flavor and work your percentages out.

Sorry to be long winded here. Yes you can compound any flavor from scratch, but getting there may be a really long hard bumpy expensive road.

Flavor Chemistry and Edible Chemistry are completely different animals. After 5 months of DIY (and I'm a chef by trade) I've learned to pick my battles with which flavors I can control and which flavors I have to purchase...Kind of makes me want to go back to school for a chemistry degree

 

[lirruping]

Wow, this is a great reply - way more info here than I expected. Thank you!

Of course, it also brings up more questions for me.. lol. This is good, because it helps me to organize my research a little more, whether or not I get quick answers from the magical forum, here.


> So it is possible to use actual foods in ejuice flavorings, then? I was imagining I might find a bottle of "yeast" or even "bread" flavoring, or something like that, to make the donut taste donutty, or give the bread that aspect of breadiness. I am just guessing, but I imagine there are colossal atomizer complications possible with actual large-particle food flavors, no? In any case, I'm in no position to pound walnuts (or whatever might be required to effect a practical ejuice component from actual nuts. It's good to be reminded about the nut-oils and rancidity, though. I had a bad experience with a bag of Walnuts sitting around outside the fridge one summer. Would not want to taste that in a concentrate!

Do you think one could use (presumably non-active) yeast in a vape flavoring? hmm.

What would be most practical for me would be to do would be to find companies that do the toughest parts (and maybe the second and third toughest parts, too) but still offer basic-ish flavors. Like this bread component. I've done a lot of searching and come across nothing like that. I know there's pie crust flavor, but that's not really right for bread.

You must be having a really fascinating time doing DIY with your level of knowledge, being a chef. I would love to hear more of your insights and adventures.

 

[Soignee]

Wow, this is a great reply - way more info here than I expected. Thank you!

Of course, it also brings up more questions for me.. lol. This is good, because it helps me to organize my research a little more, whether or not I get quick answers from the magical forum, here.


> So it is possible to use actual foods in ejuice flavorings, then? I was imagining I might find a bottle of "yeast" or even "bread" flavoring, or something like that, to make the donut taste donutty, or give the bread that aspect of breadiness. I am just guessing, but I imagine there are colossal atomizer complications possible with actual large-particle food flavors, no? In any case, I'm in no position to pound walnuts (or whatever might be required to effect a practical ejuice component from actual nuts. It's good to be reminded about the nut-oils and rancidity, though. I had a bad experience with a bag of Walnuts sitting around outside the fridge one summer. Would not want to taste that in a concentrate!

Do you think one could use (presumably non-active) yeast in a vape flavoring? hmm.

What would be most practical for me would be to do would be to find companies that do the toughest parts (and maybe the second and third toughest parts, too) but still offer basic-ish flavors. Like this bread component. I've done a lot of searching and come across nothing like that. I know there's pie crust flavor, but that's not really right for bread.

You must be having a really fascinating time doing DIY with your level of knowledge, being a chef. I would love to hear more of your insights and adventures.

You did guess correctly that the issues are with the atomizer coil. If you search for the Gunky coil thread in General Vaping you can see some pics of coils that have been used for NET's. Just the small particulate matter from extracted Tobacco can get UGLY after only a few ml's. Coffee extractions are hard on coils as well. Even the sweeteners used in juice contain Fructose which are sub 1 micron build up over time.

NO you CANNOT vape yeast. Well you could, but why? I think vaping yeast in solution would just taste burnt...

Maybe for the bread portion you could use a Cake flavor or Muffin flavor and tweak it with some AP...You just have to jump in there and try it!

I'm finding that the only benefit to being a chef in DIY is that it helps me to differentiate flavors. Otherwise, I started learning at ground zero just like everyone else
One doesn't combine flavor molecules for vaping like a cook combines flavors in food. The concept of flavor pairing is the same. The process is totally different.

Spend some time reading every post you can in DIY, use the search function for specific questions and see if there are posts that already pertain to what you want to do. Research, research, research!

Good luck!!

 

[lirruping]

Wow... I stumbled onto this thread, and it's actually still open! Rhyme? Reason?

I have been to so many threads recently that have been closed for no apparent reason--even though they could be useful, ongoing topics (especially DIY topics, like say--a discussion of Flavor West flavors) that people could engage and re-engage on over time.

Yet this thread, with its highly specific nature, remains open. I just don't get it. I want to understand. But I don't.

Well, now that that's out of my system, let me give a brief, unasked for update on my DIY progress: I'm doing it! I'm doing it! I have put together several recipes--with the massive support of fellow-DIY'ers--and I'm well on my way to Superstardom.

Watch out world!

 

[Soignee]

Wow... I stumbled onto this thread, and it's actually still open! Rhyme? Reason?

I have been to so many threads recently that have been closed for no apparent reason--even though they could be useful, ongoing topics (especially DIY topics, like say--a discussion of Flavor West flavors) that people could engage and re-engage on over time.

Yet this thread, with its highly specific nature, remains open. I just don't get it. I want to understand. But I don't.

Well, now that that's out of my system, let me give a brief, unasked for update on my DIY progress: I'm doing it! I'm doing it! I have put together several recipes--with the massive support of fellow-DIY'ers--and I'm well on my way to Superstardom.

Watch out world!

Well, there is some synchronicity going on then...

I just received a like on one of my posts in this thread...to MY surprise, thread still open!

So, my question to you then young lirruping...How did the Banana Nut Bread turn out?

How did you resolve this issue? What turn did you make? What did you find? And where did it lead you?

 

[Soignee]

Well, there is some synchronicity going on then...

I just received a like on one of my posts in this thread...to MY surprise, thread still open!

So, my question to you then young lirruping...How did the Banana Nut Bread turn out?

How did you resolve this issue? What turn did you make? What did you find? And where did it lead you?

eta, thanks sketchness