Batteries Lasting FOREVER!

[Tonyrat]

I'm new to vaping, just got my 510 kit last week... loving it so far... but I see that apparently, according to these forums, that batteries completely "die" after a while, and need replaced. I find this confusing, as they're lithium ion batteries. In general... Lith-Ion batteries can last practically forever if maintained properly. The "memory" effect that happens to rechargeable batteries is completely reversable with Lith-Ion batteries by fully charging, fully discharging, and repeating that cycle once or twice more.

I've had camera batteries "die" and have revamped them with this method using a special discharging unit I put together... and made them good as brand new... so the question is, to you more experienced vapers... is there a reason why the batteries "die" per se, or are most vapers simply unaware of the renewability of lith-ion batteries? (Of course, I'm assuming a closed battery setup with a manual battery, like my 510, and therefore assuming no contaminants are at issue.) It seems to me that a simple (and very cheap) "rejuvination" device would make the batteries last friggin' forever... or at least until the button falls off!

Anyone care to comment on this? Thanks!!

 

[Mufftrix]

From Wikipedia!

A drawback of the Li-ion battery is that like other secondary cells, its service life is dependent upon aging (shelf life), and with some chemistries this aging is more rapid than with others. From time of manufacturing, regardless of whether it was charged or the number of charge/discharge cycles, the battery will decline slowly and predictably in "capacity". This means the charge in an older battery will not last as long as in a new battery due solely to its age, unlike other batteries. This is due to an increase in internal resistance, which affects its ability to deliver current, thus the problem is more pronounced in high-current applications than low

 

[Tonyrat]

Thanks for that... it's odd though... my camera batteries have seen SO much use (countless hours) over the years (one I've had for over 10 years!) and I've revamped them through the given process several times (once a year about) and they still last 10 hours or so... I wonder if the effect described there in Wikipedia is generally a fairly subtle, long term thing (at least depending on formulation (e.g. "...with some chemistries this aging is more rapid than with others...")??

As such, this still raises the important question... why should an e-cig battery only last a couple MONTHS? Has anyone kept them going strong for a good long time using the revamping process described? Or is there something unusual about the e-cig batteries that give them such unusually short life?

 

[Tonyrat]

cool avatar, btw, mufftrix!

 

[Mufftrix]

Am sure someone with more techy knowledge on subject be along to give you better answer? But I think the fact they made cheaply and not to last may be half the reason? I know what you mean about other batteries but they are larger capacity to start with so probably don`t notice the deterioration as quickly???

Glad you like the avatar thats all I seem to do walk my dogs ha-ha! And a belated welcome to the forum

 

[framitz]

Lithium batteries do not suffer from the 'memory effect'.
Lithium-ion battery

 

[Mufftrix]

Lithium batteries do not suffer from the 'memory effect'.
Lithium-ion battery

If you read further down it the deterioration part!

But why e-cig battery's die off so quickly?

I suppose with other batteries, say camera ones for example, you are not constantly recharging them every day sometimes 2 or 3 times a day!

which has to be another major factor! you may recharge other batteries once a week, but more like once a month?

 

[caesar]

E-cig batteries are drained at currents 8 times higher then their capacity. It's not a big problem, but that's what sucks the life out of them.
There is no other way to put a bigger capacity batt in a cigarette like housing.


Camera batteries are drained at currents lower then their capacity so this is a normal way to use them, allowing for a longer lifetime.

 

[wv2win]

E-cig batteries are drained at currents 8 times higher then their capacity. It's not a big problem, but that's what sucks the life out of them.
There is no other way to put a bigger capacity batt in a cigarette like housing.


Camera batteries are drained at currents lower then their capacity so this is a normal way to use them, allowing for a longer lifetime.

I agree. Using a li-on battery for a camera is not close to being the same as what we do with them vaping. The constant heating of that atomizer will kill those batteries.

That is another good reason why devices such as the Prodigy and Screwdriver are more economical. Bigger batteries that only cost $2 to replace and last 6-8 hours on a charge. It's a no-brainer.

 

[Tonyrat]

And a belated welcome to the forum

Thanks, Mufftrix!!

 

[Tonyrat]

E-cig batteries are drained at currents 8 times higher then their capacity. It's not a big problem, but that's what sucks the life out of them.
There is no other way to put a bigger capacity batt in a cigarette like housing.


Camera batteries are drained at currents lower then their capacity so this is a normal way to use them, allowing for a longer lifetime.

Caesar - Thanks for the explanation... that makes a bit of sense... I still wonder if reconditioning will extend life expectancy a good bit more than 2 or 3 months like so many people seem to say they only last for... even a year is a huge improvement. Like I said, those camera batts last friggin forever when regularly reconditioned... there may have been very minor loss over time, but still "like new" generally speaking, so I can't help wonder if it's not worth TRYING... I should just make a reconditioner curcuit for my 510 batts and try it when one of my batts is not responsive anymore.

 

[mhikl]

Hi Tonyrat,

Excellent point. I think much the same but don't have enough experience with the e-cig batteries (7 days 4hrs) to have anything but dreams, hopes and speculations.

Have 2 batteries - for the 155mm Penstyle.
However, one overheats and flashes me incessantly (though much improved after attempting the ideas outlined in urls) and the other died after it dropped out of the cartridge clamped between my teeth as I attempted to clean up a room (not a usual exercise of mine) - and I am holding on to hope that I might be able to repair it by somehow draining it and trying to recharge it. Any ideas?

But this is a good Thread as if enough users would document their usage, storage and life of their batteries, maybe some sense can be made of this. Too many people think that lithium batters act the same as Nickel Cadmium batteries.

I brought back to a bit better life, an electric toothbrush that had been stored too long without a charge. It took a few full drains and full recharges so now I am using and charging and will continue to do so for three weeks and then do a full discharge and then full recharge to see how well it works.


Here are a few urls to check out on lithium batters- easy find compliments of google:

???

This next one is kind of wordy but interesting

???

There are other site but usually refer to tools or computers saying much the same as above.

This url talks about the lithium batter and how long they will work: 3-4 hr but says nothing about charging cycles as the first two do. Still an interesting read and gives some tecki stuff guys usually like to see even if it swims over their heads.

???

Could find nothing more about lithium care under electronic cigarettes. I shall continue to watch this Thread to see if anything experience conclusive arrises.

You have an open, inquisitive mind which can, at times, be a lone experience, though fairly satisfying in the long run.

Cheers,
mhikl

Sorry, I guess I don't have enough post to post urls so I will privately post you the urls.

 

[talmadgemonroe]

Caesar - Thanks for the explanation... that makes a bit of sense... I still wonder if reconditioning will extend life expectancy a good bit more than 2 or 3 months like so many people seem to say they only last for... even a year is a huge improvement. Like I said, those camera batts last friggin forever when regularly reconditioned... there may have been very minor loss over time, but still "like new" generally speaking, so I can't help wonder if it's not worth TRYING... I should just make a reconditioner curcuit for my 510 batts and try it when one of my batts is not responsive anymore.

Yes, Try it. Please...

 

[Tonyrat]

I'll be glad to try it... once one of my batts dies, lol. I'm new to this, so it may be a month or two, right? Unless someone wants to donate a "dead" battery, I could give it a shot!

 

[Kent C]

Some more info here:

Charging lithium-ion batteries

Do and don't battery table

Lithium-ion safety concerns

Is lithium-ion the ideal battery?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cig-technical-issues/29321-washing-batteries.html

 

[tokarev]

The links to BatteryUniversity are very informative. I learned a lot there. I don't believe lithium batteries can be "conditioned", but I guess it won't hurt to try. We use lithium batteries in a number of wireless devices where I work. I'm one of the people who maintains the equipment and I can assure you that even with low current drain they only last about 2-3 years max.

TT33

 

[Tonyrat]

Interesting about the 2-3 year max... I wonder what extenuating factors have kept my L-Series 950 and 750 Sony batteries up and running REALLY WELL for 10 years? Battery size maybe?? (They're big HEAVY batteries, especially the 950.) Maybe Sony should get into the e-cig game and make batts for the various brands, lol.

This may seem like a stupid question, but has anyone tried making a mod out of 510 battery casings with replaceable cheaper batteries? Could be interesting... I'm tempted to smash one open to see how it all fits together...

 

[CrazyTerrie11]

This may seem like a stupid question, but has anyone tried making a mod out of 510 battery casings with replaceable cheaper batteries? Could be interesting... I'm tempted to smash one open to see how it all fits together...

PLEASE....smash away LOL Anything it takes to figure out how to make the batts and attys work longer would make you a hero.....: )

 

[chrisl317]

I have 4 510 batteries that I constantly rotate on a daily basis, multiple times. When it flashes it goes into the charger and I swap it for a fully charged one. I get maybe 45 minutes of constant vaping out of them each. Two are 2 months old, the other one is about 1 month and the other is only a couple of weeks old. Take my word for it, I suck these babies dry! I'll be getting a pass-through very soon. I don't know how long the original two will last, but they've definately been conditioned. When one finally won't take a charge anymore I'll let you all know! What we need are fusion batteries for our vaping!

 

[Volsfan]

I picked up a 5 pack of the Mega-Power 510 batts from TW and they are awesome. 55 bucks for the 5 pack and 2 last me all day....