Battery Pulsing Question

[ImaStarreVap3r]

I'm going to sound like a noob asking this question and maybe I'm not understanding something but what is wrong with vaping a battery over its continuous amp limit as long as its under its pulsing limit? Lets say a battery's continuous amp rating is at 20amps and its pulsing rating is at 40amps. Whats wrong with vaping that battery and pulling 30amps from it if its only 5-10 seconds at a time? I've heard that a pulse can last no longer than 60 seconds which is way longer than myself or anyone is going to take a pull for. I understand why people look at the continuous amp rating for extra safety but I don't understand why its considered not ok to do what I stated above. If I'm not understanding something, please explain.

 

[Wolfenstark]

Better safe than sorry.

 

[RCHagy74]

As Wolfenstark wrote:




http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...17-purple-efest-batteries-not-advertised.html


Continuous Discharge Ratings vs Pulse (Burst) Discharge Ratings

The "continuous discharge rating" in amps is the standard specification for amp limits within the battery industry. It is a determination made by the manufacturer and represents the amp limit a battery can be safely used before it will fail.

The "pulse or burst" discharge rating is not a specification standard within the battery industry. Every manufacturer or vendor seems to have their own definition of what the pulse rating is.

A pulse discharge rating is any use above the continuous discharge rating. It is never safe and not within the intended operating parameters of the battery. You should not operate your device above the continuous rating if you can help it. The pulse rating is a condition in which the battery is on basically a buildup to failure. It is exceeding the sustainable and intended discharge rate of the battery. It is inappropriate for a consumer device to operate in the pulse range of its battery.

Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating. Any failure, mechanical or electronic, that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode. If your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse and burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are already running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse), there is no margin of safety.

 

[Rickajho]

You gotta be kidding. Firing a battery 60 seconds continuous is a "pulse"? Who told you that?

 

[ImaStarreVap3r]

You gotta be kidding. Firing a battery 60 seconds continuous is a "pulse"? Who told you that?

I've read it in a coupe places, I'd find the links but I'm guessing that just not true ha. What IS a pulse time frame?

 

[ImaStarreVap3r]

As Wolfenstark wrote:


View attachment 417573

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...17-purple-efest-batteries-not-advertised.html


Continuous Discharge Ratings vs Pulse (Burst) Discharge Ratings

The "continuous discharge rating" in amps is the standard specification for amp limits within the battery industry. It is a determination made by the manufacturer and represents the amp limit a battery can be safely used before it will fail.

The "pulse or burst" discharge rating is not a specification standard within the battery industry. Every manufacturer or vendor seems to have their own definition of what the pulse rating is.

A pulse discharge rating is any use above the continuous discharge rating. It is never safe and not within the intended operating parameters of the battery. You should not operate your device above the continuous rating if you can help it. The pulse rating is a condition in which the battery is on basically a buildup to failure. It is exceeding the sustainable and intended discharge rate of the battery. It is inappropriate for a consumer device to operate in the pulse range of its battery.

Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating. Any failure, mechanical or electronic, that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode. If your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse and burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are already running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse), there is no margin of safety.

Thank you, sounds very professional and accurate but still why should I believe this over the 15+ other threads and articles about pulsing batteries? It hard for me to find something that I know is correct information but I do think this sounds like the most believable so far. So basically what you are saying is just because the battery CAN go beyond the maximum continuous ampage doesn't mean you SHOULD go past that maximum?

 

[VHRB2014]

There`s no "Oh crap" meter on the battery, so when its Oh Crap time, its a bit too late.

 

[Ryedan]

As Wolfenstark wrote:


View attachment 417573

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...17-purple-efest-batteries-not-advertised.html


Continuous Discharge Ratings vs Pulse (Burst) Discharge Ratings

The "continuous discharge rating" in amps is the standard specification for amp limits within the battery industry. It is a determination made by the manufacturer and represents the amp limit a battery can be safely used before it will fail.

The "pulse or burst" discharge rating is not a specification standard within the battery industry. Every manufacturer or vendor seems to have their own definition of what the pulse rating is.

A pulse discharge rating is any use above the continuous discharge rating. It is never safe and not within the intended operating parameters of the battery. You should not operate your device above the continuous rating if you can help it. The pulse rating is a condition in which the battery is on basically a buildup to failure. It is exceeding the sustainable and intended discharge rate of the battery. It is inappropriate for a consumer device to operate in the pulse range of its battery.

Which would be why we shouldn't rely on any pulse rating. Any failure, mechanical or electronic, that fires the mod will operate in the 'continuous' mode. If your setup relies on a pulse rating, it's instantly over spec.

If your amp draw is safely in the continuous discharge range, your coil could act almost like a fuse and burn out before the battery is stressed. If you are already running the battery at the edge of it's limits (pulse), there is no margin of safety.

Kudos RCHagy74, you nailed it

 

[ImaStarreVap3r]

There`s no "Oh crap" meter on the battery, so when its Oh Crap time, its a bit too late.

Yeah, not answering the question but thanks anyway.

 

[RCHagy74]

Not to sound to parent-ish... no, you should not.

Running the pulse rating is like going around an extreme bend in the road at the speed limit or faster... one day someone goes a touch to fast and goes out of control.

And your battery is much like ones vehicle. There is every day wear and tear, quality control issues and such. Ones tires on the car, the suspension, will tell how well one speeds and holds that bend... or does not hold it.

Nothing is perfect. What we may think of as three exactly the same batteries, from the same vendor, who got them from the same manufacturer, may have the slightest of differences between them.

That slight difference is all that stands between one good vape and a potential trip to the doctor.

 

[RCHagy74]

Kudos RCHagy74, you nailed it

Nope, give thanks to Baditude, where ever he may be!

 

[Ryedan]

I've read it in a coupe places, I'd find the links but I'm guessing that just not true ha. What IS a pulse time frame?

There is no standard time frame for pulse ratings and that makes sense as it all depends on the amp draw, the battery and the condition it's in. In other words, a battery may generally survive for 30 seconds at 1.5 x continuous discharge rating and it may generally survive for 1 second at 3 x continuous discharge rating, or not, it all depends. Those numbers BTW are for my example only, they are not real. Without knowing the time, we in effect know nothing.

However, if we stay within the continuous discharge rating, we are safe.

ImaStarreVap3r, you've started a few threads about this stuff lately and you've got a bunch of good information in response. What don't you get about it yet?

To recap, if you go over the continuous amp rating of your battery, you're on your own and if you vent the battery it's all on you. Hopefully the batt will not vent with flame and hurt someone.

 

[ImaStarreVap3r]

Not to sound to parent-ish... no, you should not.

Running the pulse rating is like going around an extreme bend in the road at the speed limit or faster... one day someone goes a touch to fast and goes out of control.

And your battery is much like ones vehicle. There is every day wear and tear, quality control issues and such. Ones tires on the car, the suspension, will tell how well one speeds and holds that bend... or does not hold it.

Nothing is perfect. What we may think of as three exactly the same batteries, from the same vendor, who got them from the same manufacturer, may have the slightest of differences between them.

That slight difference is all that stands between one good vape and a potential trip to the doctor.

Thank you, that was one of the better responses I've seen for this topic. I agree now that its taking an unnecessary risk to vape on the pulse rating like that when we don't even know what the pulse rating really is alot of the time. What I was trying to figure out was whether to vape my .2ohm Starre on a single or dual mod. I really really wanted to stick with a single, cylinder mod instead of buy a box mod. I think my BEC Pro cylinder mod is much better in every way in terms of looks, portability, feeling in the hands, and just style of vaping in my opinion. All that with the exception for this battery situation which I'm afraid has all the other factors beaten.

 

[crxess]

A Pulse is generally under 5 seconds.
A Burst is generally under 15 seconds.

I fly Electric RC aircraft with LiPo Power cells

 

[VHRB2014]

Yeah, not answering the question but thanks anyway.

If you can not see the answer contained within, thats on you.

Personally, Id rather light fire crackers blind folded myself.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Whenever I think about a battery blowing up, I think of Wiley E. Coyote opening the Acme box.

Not to make light of safety...

 

[VHRB2014]

Poor Wiley, all he needed was some special education.

 

[Thrasher]

1
Pulse time is usually 5-6 seconds and can be found on the date sheet of a battery. Date sheet overrules pinheads on internet.

2
it is well documented that high stress, even if kept under the continuous rating, Wears out and begins to break down the chemicals in the battery. Slowly lowering the charge it will hold, how long it will run and the maximum amount of current discharge it can safely handle.

 

[ImaStarreVap3r]

A Pulse is generally under 5 seconds.
A Burst is generally under 15 seconds.

I fly Electric RC aircraft with LiPo Power cells

Thanks!!!!

 

[ImaStarreVap3r]

If you can not see the answer contained within, thats on you.

Personally, Id rather light fire crackers blind folded myself.

You were not answering the question unlike some of the people on here that actually want to explain it to me and help me. I never said I don't agree with you but you were not explaining anything.