Before I begin...

[Affenpinscher]

I'm ready to try the eciggs but before I do I have a few questions that
I'm trying to find answers for.
I have already seen the video showing the clean appearance of the V4L manufacturing facility.
What I am asking is how do we know that Diethylene glycol which is an industrial poison used in antifreeze, but only costs half as much as the approved medical-quality Propylene Glycol is not being used?
If yopu recall there was a past issue with toothpaste from China being recalled because Diethyene glycol was substituted to save the cost of using Propylene Glycol.
I could bore you with hundreds of examples that expose the many issues with products from China.
What I really want to know is are the V4L products tested on a regular and consistant basis to ensure they are not contaminated with toxic sunstances?
Where does the Propylene Glycol come from? What are the carts made of? Do any of the pieces contain the toxic metal cadmium in any of its parts or paints?
I'm not trying to be a pest. Its just that there are so many issues with products produced in China that I want to be
certin I'm buying a SAFE product.

 

[5cardstud]

If you want to be really, really safe get some flavoring, some nic juice from extreme vaping or someone else, get some propylene glycol (you can get it from farm supply among other places) and mix your own juice. If someone was selling bad juice on ecf it would be spotted in no time as scrutinized as the products are on this forum. The amount they found was trace and was from a tainted test. Contact CASA and they have all the testing results and knowledge on the subject.

 

[Jonmo1]

How dou KNOW that Diethylene glycol is not in the Coca Cola you drink, or that slice of Cheese on your sandwich, or in that piece of chocolate cake you're eating?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a pest either...But we take risks of ingesting harmfull chemicals EVERY TIME we eat or drink ANYTHING...

Its just that there are so many issues with products produced in China that I want to be
certin I'm buying a SAFE product.

So you know for certain that those Marlboro's you've been smoking for years are Safe??

 

[Affenpinscher]

How dou KNOW that Diethylene glycol is not in the Coca Cola you drink, or that slice of Cheese on your sandwich, or in that piece of chocolate cake you're eating?

Sorry, I'm not trying to be a pest either...But we take risks of ingesting harmfull chemicals EVERY TIME we eat or drink ANYTHING...




So you know for certain that those Marlboro's you've been smoking for years are Safe??

Here is the catch, products from the US are inspected my the USDA.
However,eciggs fall into a catagory that is not regulated.
So you see, the risks are far greater for a product made in China that is not regulated or inspected.
I realize everything in life is a risk but to throw caution to the wind and minimize known issues isn't the answer....its reckless!!!
Do I know Marlboros are safe? NO! I know they are NOT safe which is exactly why I want an alternative. I want to be sure I'm not jumping from the pot into the fire though. I'm trying to change my past life choices and find healthier ways to live.

 

[5thelephant]

Buy your liquid from a USA supplier or mix your own with PG sourced from whatever supply you deem satisfactory.

You have valid concerns and I also think you have valid options. Be sure you are not trying to find ways keep smoking. I think you are on the right path. Jump in. Get yourself over to cignot.com or any of the other reputable suppliers and get it started. You will be very happy you did.

 

[keyzygirl]

Its a chance WE are willing to take,its a CHANCE that its better.We KNOW cigs are not safe at all.Its up to you.But cigarettes will definetly KILL you.

 

[Affenpinscher]

If you want to be really, really safe get some flavoring, some nic juice from extreme vaping or someone else, get some propylene glycol (you can get it from farm supply among other places) and mix your own juice. If someone was selling bad juice on ecf it would be spotted in no time as scrutinized as the products are on this forum. The amount they found was trace and was from a tainted test. Contact CASA and they have all the testing results and knowledge on the subject.

I'm not familiar with "CASA" I tried doing a search but didn't see anything that seemed related to the subject.
Wold you kindly give me a little more info?
Thanks in advance

 

[satoshi]

It's actually CASAA not CASA... CASAA.org and there are some lab reports in there

V4L does have a full-time employee in China (leaford), but I don't think any e-liquid vendor has their liquid tested by an independent lab on a regular and consistent basis.

It's a risk I'm willing to take, personally. You should think about it and see if you're comfortable with it...there are smokeless tobacco products like snus as an alternative which are subject to regulation and testing in Sweden, see the alternatives subforum on here.

 

[Upinthehills]

I think this is a valid concern for the juices that are made in China and one of the reasons I'm now using only USA made juices from reputable suppliers. As someone above mentioned, if a vendor were sending out bad juices, people here would know it quickly.

For your concerns about hardware, I've not heard one instance of someone getting sick from using a personal vaporizer. Doesn't mean it won't happen tomorrow, but so far I've not heard of it.

With that said, I have heard of, known, and witnessed many people that have sickened and in many cases died from using cigarettes. For me, it's a gamble between a known killer and something that, so far, seems safe. I do know that since I quit smoking and started vaping, I feel 100% better. For me, the gamble is paying off.

 

[Windsage]

Actually think about this for a minute. If someone got a bad batch of goods and went to a hospital, how long would it be before everyone on this forum knew about it.

The response time on this forum is extremely fast.

The alternative is to turn this function over to a government agency like the FDA. When was the last time the FDA came forward and said a single person got sick. NEVER. They consider a few random deaths normal in the pharmaceutical business.

All of those deaths associated with DEG were in regulated products. hmmm. All that regulation helped those people didn't it.

The best regulation is a connected and informed public.

 

[Affenpinscher]

Its not a "bad batch issue" that I'm concerned about.... and NO toxins do not always make you instantly sick. Some toxins cause cancer some cause kidney failure over a period of time others cause liver damage.
For years the tabacco industry did NOTHING to test the safety of their products. Hence we now have millions of people hooked on their garbage and dying from the diseases it casues.
I remember when I first started smoking they had just started to say smoking MIGHT cause heath risks...........they didn't even say what the health risks were.
I wish, back then, I would have asked more questions and been more vigilant about getting answers.
The tabacco industry should serve as a reminder to ALL of us.......especially us....ask questions and search for answers. Don't ever assume something is safe just because people aren't showing immediate signs of illness.

 

[Windsage]

True. We are just beginning to understand the long term effects of many things. You mention liver failure. Look up Tylenol.

The fact is the best alternative to smoking is to have never smoked at all. Failing that, you can quit. Everything else is going to have unknown risks. We do not know the long term effects of possibly inhaling PG for 20 years. We won't know for 20 years.

We do not have long term studies on any of the regulated nicotine therapies either. Most of the research on them was one year studies and many of the studies included some pretty horrid side effects. But, honestly you have to compare the effects to continuing to smoke, so its a pretty low bar you need to pass to be a step in the right direction.

 

[KYFlyer67]

Well stated... Perfect!

 

[fursty99]

True. We are just beginning to understand the long term effects of many things. You mention liver failure. Look up Tylenol.

The fact is the best alternative to smoking is to have never smoked at all. Failing that, you can quit. Everything else is going to have unknown risks. We do not know the long term effects of possibly inhaling PG for 20 years. We won't know for 20 years.

We do not have long term studies on any of the regulated nicotine therapies either. Most of the research on them was one year studies and many of the studies included some pretty horrid side effects. But, honestly you have to compare the effects to continuing to smoke, so its a pretty low bar you need to pass to be a step in the right direction.

could not have said it better myself

 

[Upinthehills]

Its not a "bad batch issue" that I'm concerned about.... and NO toxins do not always make you instantly sick. Some toxins cause cancer some cause kidney failure over a period of time others cause liver damage.............. Don't ever assume something is safe just because people aren't showing immediate signs of illness.

Unfortunately, there are no long term studies of e-cigarette use because they haven't been around that long. If you need to have long term studies proving their safety, this may not be for you. I hate to say that, but you have to make that decision.

As I said above, I'm willing to risk an unknown vs a known killer. You might choose differently. Good luck with whatever you decide!

 

[Affenpinscher]

Great input! I'm so glad for this forum so we can have these discussions.
.

 

[carguy50]

all I know is that after 40 years of smoking I felt like s**t and after 6 months of vaping I feel great. I'm no doctor but i do know that I can now go up a couple flights of stairs and spend 45 minutes on my treadmill. there was NO way that I could do that before.....BUT you do make a good point and I was wondering the same thing so I did a LOT of research and started making my own juice so that I know what is in it. as far as 20 years from now who knows but I think that 20 years on my treadmill will help

 

[Affenpinscher]

all I know is that after 40 years of smoking I felt like s**t and after 6 months of vaping I feel great. I'm no doctor but i do know that I can now go up a couple flights of stairs and spend 45 minutes on my treadmill. there was NO way that I could do that before.....BUT you do make a good point and I was wondering the same thing so I did a LOT of research and started making my own juice so that I know what is in it. as far as 20 years from now who knows but I think that 20 years on my treadmill will help

Well, I'm glad to hear you're feeling better! That is encouraging.

What did you find when you researched the products?

How do you make your own juice? Where do you get the supplies?

The products I've looked at all seem to have prefilled carts.

What system do you like best? Is there one that is the most popular?

 

[carguy50]

Go into the DIY juice section on this forum and start reading. you can get pg from almost any drug store. vg I got from a health food store. Nicotene I got online ...MAKE SURE everything is USP grade. flavors you can get anywhere.Be carefull handling nicotene.... do lots of reading and research, it isn't as hard as it looks at first

 

[CaptJay]

Your concerns aren't unreasonable - but they might be unattainable as far as answers go. There will always be people who will have side effects from, well everything or anything. There will always be a risk, however small that anything is going to kill you, make you sick, give you an illness.
What the drug industry do is weigh the risks - if it affects less than 25% of people is it 'acceptable'? Perhaps they go for 10% or 5%; my point is nothing they come up with is 100% risk free. Even juices you make yourself (which many many people do and love doing it) will come with risks, and some of those risks will be cross contanimation of product. Pretty easy to do in a home enviroment, which is how people end up with food poisoning lol Be very very careful handling pure nicotine as well - its marked toxic for a reason.
The question you have to ask is how much of a risk is worthwhile - to many of us the apprently (but unknown except by anecdotal evidence and some brief studies on it) lower risk of vaping versus (the known and higher risk) smoking was 'good enough'. Many of us didn't expect to LIVE another 20 years so getting sick MAYBE by then from this (as opposed to almost certainly with smoking) was an 'acceptable risk'.

If you HAD asked more questions 20, 30 or 40 years ago you wouldn't have gotten any answers btw so don't beat yourself up over that one, either the tests hadn't been done or you'd have been lied to.

DIY juices are very popular though and the forum can help you through the chemistry lessons lol.