Diethylene glycol

[jnakamura]

I read the FDA's claims that their tests on PVs detected diethylene glycol, which they say is used in engine coolant/anti-freeze and is a toxic chemical. Yet I keep hearing people say that it's propylene glycol that they're talking about as the anti-freeze ingredient.

Am I missing something? I'm willing to wait for more independent testing, but if in fact diethylene glycol is one of the components of e-cig vapor I might have to re-think this. Hopefully more testing will prove e-cigs are indeed relatively safe.

In the mean time, any science people here know the long-term effect of inhailing trace amounts of diethylene glycol?

This is what I found on wiki:

Toxicity

Diethylene glycol has moderate acute toxicity in animal experiments. The LD50 for small mammals has been tested at between 2 and 25 g/kg, less toxic than its relative ethylene glycol but still capable of causing toxicity in humans. Several epidemics of poisonings have occurred when DEG was substituted for the non-toxic naturally occurring "triol" glycerine (also called glycerol) or propylene glycol in foodstuffs and pharmaceuticals. It appears diethylene glycol is more hazardous to humans than implied by oral toxicity data in laboratory animals. Because of its adverse effects on humans, diethylene glycol is not allowed for use in food and drugs. The U.S. Code of Federal Regulations allows no more than 0.2% of diethylene glycol in polyethylene glycol when the latter is used as a food additive.

PS: mod's, feel free to relocate this to the appropriate forum.

 

[BigJimW]

Jnakamura, I can assure you, don't put to much credence in what the FDA "found". Their "report" is being attacked by many prominent doctors and health organizations as being sloppy and inconclusive. it was mainly a scare tactic that the FDA chose to route themselves with.

The DG found was very minute, and found in ONE cartridge of many tested, and at such a low level, it was determined that a 150 pound person had to vape 6,000 carts in a day to achieve that level of toxicity.

The DG found in the cart was found, by no strange cooincidence, in a Smoking Everywhere cart, a company, by the way, that has a lawsuit filed against the FDA over seized shipments. (No big surprise there that a government agency is trying to make the company suing them look as bad as possible in light of this litigation. Actually, I tend to doubt that DG was even FOUND. I'm beginning to think it was just a smear tactic)

The PV (Electronic Cigarette) has actually been around since 2004 and since then, there has not been one reported death or injury related to their use. Yet, during the time period of 2004 to present, according to present statistics as to the number of deaths per year in the US that are tobacco related, 2.4 million people have died using a conventional tobacco product.

But the bottom line is money. Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, the Government, and many anti-smoking groups stand to lose a ton of money (estimates figure the monitary losses at over $1 trillion dollars) is the driving factor to this scare tactic.

So, don't believe what the FDA us feeding you. There is an alterior motive behind it. I've been vaping since May and have had no problems. If there was any of this DG in it that the FDA claims, I figure I'd either be seriously injured, or dead, by now.

Take it with a grain of salt.

 

[jnakamura]

Jnakamura, I can assure you, don't put to much credence in what the FDA "found". Their "report" is being attacked by many prominent doctors and health organizations as being sloppy and inconclusive. it was mainly a scare tactic that the FDA chose to route themselves with.

The DG found was very minute, and found in ONE cartridge of many tested, and at such a low level, it was determined that a 150 pound person had to vape 6,000 carts in a day to achieve that level of toxicity.

The DG found in the cart was found, by no strange cooincidence, in a Smoking Everywhere cart, a company, by the way, that has a lawsuit filed against the FDA over seized shipments. (No big surprise there that a government agency is trying to make the company suing them look as bad as possible in light of this litigation)

The PV (Electronic Cigarette) has actually been around since 2004 and since then, there has not been one reported death or injury related to their use. Yet, during the time period of 2004 to present, according to present statistics as to the number of deaths per year in the US that are tobacco related, 2.4 million people have died using a conventional tobacco product.

But the bottom line is money. Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, the Government, and many anti-smoking groups stand to lose a ton of money (estimates figure the monitary losses at over $1 trillion dollars) is the driving factor to this scare tactic.

So, don't believe what the FDA us feeding you. There is an alterior motive behind it. I've been vaping since May and have had no problems. If there was any of this DG in it that the FDA claims, I figure I'd either be seriously injured, or dead, by now.

Take it with a grain of salt.

That's good to know.

Hopefully some independent unbiased testing will be done and prove once and for all that e cigs are relatively safe. Hopefully before it's too late!

 

[BigJimW]

That's good to know.

Hopefully some independent unbiased testing will be done and prove once and for all that e cigs are relatively safe. Hopefully before it's too late!

Actually, a similar study was done by Health New Zealand last year that came up with the real numbers to what the FDA found. But they determined that the amounts of these carconigens was so small, they posed no risk to the consumer. The FDA found similar numbers and decided to present it to an uneducated public. So much so that some people actually believe that the electronic cigarette is more dangerous than real ones! Which on it's face value is a preposterous assumption in of itself. But since the FDA "said so", most of the world believes it.

Now I can see how easy it was to cover up JFK's assassination. A simple lie told by a government agency, repeated a few thousand times by mass media, and it turns into "truth", even though it is still a lie. What we see here is the 21st century version of this. The modern version of the Joe McCarthy witchhunt of the 50's. No matter what we say or do to prove otherwise, we'll be crackpots, unamerican, communist, KKK lovers, you name it. To believe otherwise (the real truth) makes you an outcast.

I'd rather be a vaping outcast KKK loving Commie wearing a hammer and sickle bandana, than to a uneducated stooge smoking analogs with my head buried in the sand and believe everything big government tells me, and have an american flag drape my casket when they rid of me for getting lung cancer by smoking FDA approved cigarettes.

The choice is yours.

 

[jerrydon10]

Why not consider real studies by real scientists rather than FED flunkies who have a tax dog in this fight:

"Findings. Ruyan® e-cigarette is designed to be a safe alternative to smoking. The various test results confirm this is the case. It is very safe relative to cigarettes, and also safe in absolute terms on all measurements we have applied. Using micro-electronics it vaporizes, separately for each puff, very small quantities of nicotine dissolved in propylene glycol, two small well-known molecules with excellent safety profiles, – into a fine aerosol. Each puff contains one third to one half the nicotine in a tobacco cigarette’s puff. The cartridge liquid is tobacco-free and no combustion occurs."

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/RuyanCartridgeReport30-Oct-08.pdf

Oh the irony of it all. Now Christchurch, one of the researchers, is an avid vaper and advocating legalization of the e-cig.