Bench Retest Results: Molicel P30B - 30A 3000mAh 18650

[Mooch]

These tests below only note my personal opinion for the ESTIMATED ratings for the batteries I tested at the time I tested them. Any battery that is not a genuine Samsung, Sony, Murata, LG, Panasonic, Molicel, EVE, Lishen, BAK, or Sanyo can change at any time! This can be one of the hazards of using “rewrapped” or batteries from other manufacturers so carefully research any battery you are considering using before purchasing.

Misusing or mishandling lithium-ion batteries can pose a SERIOUS RISK of property damage, personal injury, or even death. Never use them outside of a fully protected battery pack and you use them at your own risk. Never exceed the battery’s true continuous discharge rating (CDR), never let it get colder than 0°C or hotter than 60°C to help lower the risks and extend cell life, and keep the plastic wrap and top insulating ring in perfect condition. Never use a battery that is physically damaged in any way.

Testing batteries at their limits is dangerous and should never be attempted by anyone who has not thoroughly studied the dangers involved, understands the risks, has the proper equipment, and takes all appropriate safety precautions.

If the battery has only one current rating number, or if it only says "max", then I have to assume the battery is rated at that current level for any type of discharge, including continuous.




Test Results
It’s been a while since I last tested the Molicel P30B and it now has the China Compulsory Certification (CCC) required wrap printing showing the model number, polarity marks, minimum capacity, nominal voltage and “CCC”. This certification requires the cell to undergo additional testing if manufactured or sold in China and is a good thing to see.

These 2024-dated cells are incredible performers, doing even better than the last time I tested the P30B. The P30B is replacing the P28A (P28B was never a production cell) and is now my top choice for any use at above about 7A or so. For about 5A or lower the EVE 35V runs for a bit longer.

In the Moli spec sheet the P30B’s 30A rating is temperature-limited to an 80°C max cell temp but the cells I tested only reached about 78°C at 30A down to 2.5V. This seems to be a true continuous 30A rating.

Some other results and info…

• At 5A the P30B equals or runs for a bit longer than the VTC6, MJ1, and 30Q6.
• At 10A-30A the P30B outperforms every 18650 I have tested, sometimes by a little, sometimes by a lot.
• The Moli web site mentions a 36A max current rating and 100W max power rating. Stay under 80°C cell surface temperature!
• P30B’s do not have the laser-etched QR-style code box on the bottom like the P45B and P50B. But they do have a tiny laser-etched code on the side of the can with the last six characters seeming to match the date code on the wrap. This appears to be a great way to authenticate a cell…until counterfeiters buy laser etching printers.
• DC IR for the two cells I tested measured 9.4mOhms and 9.4mOhms. This is extraordinary consistency and is what makes Molicels so great, especially for pack building.
• Capacities for the two cells was 3007mAh and 3008mAh, also also extraordinary consistency.
• The standard charge rate is 3A and the maximum rate is 9A (temp-limited to 60°C). Like all cells I’m sure that the cycle life will be shorter if charging at the max rate a lot.

Continuous Current Discharge Graphs



Ratings and Performance Specs Graphic



18650 Ratings & Performance Table:

18650 Battery Ratings and Performance Table

You are responsible for your own safety! These batteries are designed, manufactured, and sold only for use in a battery pack with the proper protection circuitry and battery management system. They were not designed for vaping (electronic...

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20700/21700 Ratings & Performance Table:

21700 Battery Ratings and Performance Table

You are responsible for your own safety! These batteries are designed, manufactured, and sold only for use in a battery pack with the proper protection circuitry and battery management system. They were not designed for vaping (electronic...

www.e-cigarette-forum.com

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[Mudenti]

Thank you for all your work over the years Mooch, I always recheck your battery lists/tests when looking for new batteries. They're an invaluable resource!

On topic:
Should we care about that note written on the wrap "NOT FOR E-CIG OR VAPE" ?
I assume the answer is No. But then again if I remember correctly, these 18650 type batteries were never intented to be used in vape mods.

Its probably to cover their own grounds legally?

 

[Mooch]

Thank you for all your work over the years Mooch, I always recheck your battery lists/tests when looking for new batteries. They're an invaluable resource!

On topic:
Should we care about that note written on the wrap "NOT FOR E-CIG OR VAPE" ?
I assume the answer is No. But then again if I remember correctly, these 18650 type batteries were never intented to be used in vape mods.

Its probably to cover their own grounds legally?

That’s exactly why IMO.
Cells can’t know what type of device they are in, just how hard they are used.

 

[ComputerJunkie]

Hey Mooch,

I'm sorry but I am confused. Reading the label on the pic you provided, is very different than that of 18650 battery store. Their's says: Molicel 111 2N804 03 and doesn't show voltage.

Does this mean these are the older ones before the CCC specification and to be avoided?

Only place I have found the ones you are reviewing above, is AliBaba.

 

[Mooch]

Hey Mooch,

I'm sorry but I am confused. Reading the label on the pic you provided, is very different than that of 18650 battery store. Their's says: Molicel 111 2N804 03 and doesn't show voltage.

Does this mean these are the older ones before the CCC specification and to be avoided?

Only place I have found the ones you are reviewing above, is AliBaba.

There are older ones but no need to avoid them. I haven’t found any difference in performance even for two year old cells.

Also, that photo might be old but 18650BatteryStore could be selling newer cells and just kept the old photo there. If you’re still concerned I recommend contacting 18650BatteryStore and asking them about their cells.

 

[ComputerJunkie]

There are older ones but no need to avoid them. I haven’t found any difference in performance even for two year old cells.

Also, that photo might be old but 18650BatteryStore could be selling newer cells and just kept the old photo there. If you’re still concerned I recommend contacting 18650BatteryStore and asking them about their cells.

Thank you Mooch! I appreciate the help.

 

[JayEmm]

Thanks @Mooch for everything you do for all the battery-using communities!

I'm trying to help a friend who just bought a bunch of P30Bs and that's what was delivered:

As expected, there's no visible laser etching anywhere outside of the wrap (I was kinda disappointed with that, was expecting something like the P45B has).

Anyway, the concerns so far are:

1) are these batteries legit? Any way to know without cutting out the wrap to look for the manufacture date code under it?

2) even if they're legit, the date code ("2N310") decodes to 10-March-2022, ie well over 3 years old. Is that a problem?

3) I checked four of them with a Uni-T UT210E DMM and the batteries are at 4.08V, 4.09V, 4.07V and 4.09V, which AFAIK is too high for storage, so either they got charged sometime between being manufactured and being shipped to him (which, given they were manufactured in 2022, could mean they were stored at these voltages for a long time, and suffered a lot of degradation as a result), or that they are fake to begin with (as I'm pretty sure Molicel themselves would never have charged a battery that high in the factory). How much of a problem would that be?

Besides the DMM, all I have are a SkyRC MC3000 charger (which can't test-discharge at more than 3A, too little when compared to the P30B 30A discharge capacity) and electronic calipers (with 0.1mm precision) to check dimensions.

What can I do to help my friend determine whether these batteries are legit?

Thanks in advance for any tips.

 

[Mooch]

I'm trying to help a friend who just bought a bunch of P30Bs and that's what was delivered:

There’s no possible way to even begin to determine authenticity with the wrap on. Carefully remove it and check for the laser etched code and the appearance of the can. Use my original P30B photos of an N date code cell (not the retest).

Yup, those cells were charged. Left charged for a couple of years is not great but there is no way to know its effect on those particular cells without careful testing against known genuine cells.

Return them IMO. They’re old and charged…unacceptable. Plenty of reliable places sell good cells. Trying to save money by shopping elsewhere is insanity IMO.

 

[JayEmm]

Thank you very much for the great reply, @Mooch! The problem with buying from known-good places like NKON, 18650BatteryStore, Ilumn etc is that we're in South America -- and shipping from the US or Europe here is both difficult and very very expensive. So the guy got them from AliExpress (I know, I know, and I told him so, but he was really out of options), trying to select a listing with as many positive review as possible, and from a seller with reasonably good rep; here's what he ended up buying: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006816240419.html

FWIW, I used my MC3000 (I know it's not very precise, but unfortunately it's all I have) "check IR" function on these 4 cells and it gave me results reasonably close to each other and to the official datasheet specs: 10, 7, 9 and 9 milliOhms.

Examining very carefully the wrap before removing it (I'm afraid AE or the seller might create problems if/when a refund is requested if the wrap has been removed), I found something very suspicious:

It's not very easy to see, but there's a kind of "ridge" running from one end of the battery to the other, it's like 2mm wide and thick enough to not only be seen, but also sensed by touch. I've never seen that in any other battery.

Is that another red flag?

 

[Mooch]

Thank you very much for the great reply, @Mooch! The problem with buying from known-good places like NKON, 18650BatteryStore, Ilumn etc is that we're in South America -- and shipping from the US or Europe here is both difficult and very very expensive. So the guy got them from AliExpress (I know, I know, and I told him so, but he was really out of options), trying to select a listing with as many positive review as possible, and from a seller with reasonably good rep; here's what he ended up buying: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006816240419.html

FWIW, I used my MC3000 (I know it's not very precise, but unfortunately it's all I have) "check IR" function on these 4 cells and it gave me results reasonably close to each other and to the official datasheet specs: 10, 7, 9 and 9 milliOhms.

Examining very carefully the wrap before removing it (I'm afraid AE or the seller might create problems if/when a refund is requested if the wrap has been removed), I found something very suspicious:
View attachment 1029823
It's not very easy to see, but there's a kind of "ridge" running from one end of the battery to the other, it's like 2mm wide and thick enough to not only be seen, but also sensed by touch. I've never seen that in any other battery.

Is that another red flag?

No, that’s the seam created when they take a flat sheet of material, form it into a tube, and then heat seal it before inserting the cell and shrinking it tight to the cell. Several other cells also have that seam but right now I can only remember Murata’s.

 

[JayEmm]

No, that’s the seam created when they take a flat sheet of material, form it into a tube, and then heat seal it before inserting the cell and shrinking it tight to the cell. Several other cells also have that seam but right now I can only remember Murata’s.

Thanks for the detailed reply, @Mooch. This is the first time I've seen (or at least noticed) that in any of my batteries... including my own Molicels (P45Bs, I myself don't own any P30Bs),

Anyway, I'm now putting those cells through some actual tests:

0) Paired them in 2S configuration and put them into a Rekon35 drone, safely zip-tied to a couple of heavy bricks (so I could push throttle to the max and maximize current draw without having the drone going up to the moon):

In the state they came in (around 4.07-4.09V per cell, as I reported previously), the first pair managed to supply 1809mAh at an average current of 10.9A over a 588 seconds interval, starting at 4.07V and ending at 3.00V per cell, according to the drone's telemetry (I haven't calibrated its current/voltage sensors, but the values seem to be reasonable to me). Another pair started at 3.85V per cell (I did some previous testing with them) and ended at 2.45V per cell and was able to supply 1688mAh over the course of 536 seconds, with an average current drawn of 11.2A. Given the batteries started at an unknown charge state, these are highly caricatural results, will try and obtain more reliable ones after step 1 below is over.

1) On my SkyRC MC3000, I'm right now doing a batch of 5 C>D cycles according to the datasheet (CC charging up to 4.2V and then CV charging until current drops to 60mA, then discharging down to 2.5V, initially at 2A charging and 1A discharging), and so far with the first cycle completed, the batteries have registered capacities of 2.822, 2.824, 2.878 and 2.822 Ah respectively, ditto energies of 10.16, 10.17, 10.35 and 10.16 Wh. These are all below the minimuns of 2900 mAh and 10.4 Wh specified in Molicel's datasheet (and those are at a much higher 3A discharge). Let's see if the situation improves with further cycles.

2) Additionaly, following the guidance on Molicel's website, I sent them an email with photos and purchase data, and will report here if/when I hear back from them.

Will keep this thread posted, hope I'm not abusing y'all's time and patience.

 

[Mooch]

1) On my SkyRC MC3000, I'm right now doing a batch of 5 C>D cycles according to the datasheet (CC charging up to 4.2V and then CV charging until current drops to 60mA, then discharging down to 2.5V, initially at 2A charging and 1A discharging), and so far with the first cycle completed, the batteries have registered capacities of 2.822, 2.824, 2.878 and 2.822 Ah respectively, ditto energies of 10.16, 10.17, 10.35 and 10.16 Wh. These are all below the minimuns of 2900 mAh and 10.4 Wh specified in Molicel's datasheet (and those are at a much higher 3A discharge). Let's see if the situation improves with further cycles.

2) Additionaly, following the guidance on Molicel's website, I sent them an email with photos and purchase data, and will report here if/when I hear back from them.

Will keep this thread posted, hope I'm not abusing y'all's time and patience.

Looking forward to seeing your update!
How did you previously test/calibrate the MC3000? Many slot chargers are off a bit with their capacity testing.

 

[JayEmm]

Looking forward to seeing your update!
How did you previously test/calibrate the MC3000? Many slot chargers are off a bit with their capacity testing

Thanks @Mooch for pinging me back, and sorry for the delay in coming up with my report. Here it is:

0) Paired them in 2S configuration and put them into a Rekon35 drone, safely zip-tied to a couple of heavy bricks (so I could push throttle to the max and maximize current draw without having the drone going up to the moon):

In the state they came in (around 4.07-4.09V per cell, as I reported previously), the first pair managed to supply 1809mAh at an average current of 10.9A over a 588 seconds interval, starting at 4.07V and ending at 3.00V per cell, according to the drone's telemetry (I haven't calibrated its current/voltage sensors, but the values seem to be reasonable to me). Another pair started at 3.85V per cell (I did some previous testing with them) and ended at 2.45V per cell and was able to supply 1688mAh over the course of 536 seconds, with an average current drawn of 11.2A. Given the batteries started at an unknown charge state, these are highly caricatural results, will try and obtain more reliable ones after step 1 below is over.

I repeated those tests with the same batteries after putting them through the 5x D>C cycles on the MC3000 (see below) and here are the results (first frame of the OSD display from the drone when each battery pair reached 5.0V total, ie 2.5V per battery):

Pair #1 (batteries i and ii):

Pair #2 (batteries iii and iv):

So, according to the drone's voltage/current sensors, these batteries (after being fully charged to 4.2V with 60mAh residual current) were able to produce respectively 2562mAh and 2573mAh when drained all the way down to 2.5V at ~10A (current varied by half-an-amp up and down as the drone's FC did its thing, but I was able to keep an average very very close to 10A).

This is a significantly (~10%) less than the over-2750mAh at the same 10A we can interpolate from the 10A discharge graph you posted in this topic's OP.

The good news is that, even after being discharged at ~10A for almost 15 minutes straight, the batteries did not heat up too much: an IR thermometer clocked them at just 38C and the time-honored touch-with-finger test showed them only mildly warm, so it seems they should at least be safe to use.

1) On my SkyRC MC3000, I'm right now doing a batch of 5 C>D cycles according to the datasheet (CC charging up to 4.2V and then CV charging until current drops to 60mA, then discharging down to 2.5V, initially at 2A charging and 1A discharging), and so far with the first cycle completed, the batteries have registered capacities of 2.822, 2.824, 2.878 and 2.822 Ah respectively, ditto energies of 10.16, 10.17, 10.35 and 10.16 Wh. These are all below the minimuns of 2900 mAh and 10.4 Wh specified in Molicel's datasheet (and those are at a much higher 3A discharge). Let's see if the situation improves with further cycles.

The capacities didn't improve much if at all, they remained at around 2800mAh capacity, and this while being discharged at only 1A, while they should be producing at least 3000mAh. So also about ~10% capacity loss, which aligns with was seen with the 10A discharges on the anchored-drone test.

To sum it up, on my advice with these results, my friend opened a dispute on his AE purchase and managed to negotiate a partial refund which brought his cost down to the equivalent of USD 2.24 per battery, which I think is a fair price, and will be using them in their reduced capacity, given that they should at least be safe to use at 10A due to not heating too much.

How did you previously test/calibrate the MC3000? Many slot chargers are off a bit with their capacity testing.

I checked that the voltage the MC3000 displayed was the same as the one shown by my UNI-T UT210E DMM, and indeed it was exactly the same. Did not check the current as that would be far more involved (given the UT210 can only measure current using its clamp, measuring it would have meant placing a longer wire somewhere along the discharge path, and as a way to do that was not obvious and I had neither the inclination nor the time for such an endeavor, and given the voltage sensor was right on the money, I decided to just believe the current sensor was also accurate.

Now my friend managed to locally procure a couple of Murata VTC6 batteries that were imported by soneone else from NKON.NL and I'm now trying to help him test them. And I have questions about these batteries too... will be be posting them on the VTC6 thread.
EDIT: the VTC6 threads (both test and retest) are closed for comments, so I opened a new one: Murata VTC6, how to charge? Anyone that can, please help!

Thank again @Mooch for everything!