Bunch of questions. Lengthy responses preferred

[crobinson]

Hi my name is Chris. I am new to this site but have heard great things and wanted to learn from the collaborative efforts of the helpful individuals on this site.

I am a graduate student at the Colorado School of Mines in Chemical Engineering and wanted to start making e cig solutions. I understand the chemistry of these solutions but have noticed that preference is everything with e cigs. So I was wondering what the effects of different PG and VG in solutions are? Also what are some favorite amounts of PG and VG? I have seen some people do 100% VG and then there are tons of different options in between.

My next question was which base flavor is more effective. I am not sure but have guessed that flavoring is provided as a PG flavoring, a VG flavoring or possibly a water based flavoring. Which one of these usually has the strongest flavor through your experience?

Another question I had was the use of distilled water in ejuice. Does it "water down" the flavor or make the ejuice worse. What are you opinions on using water in ejuice?

Finally, my last question has to deal with steeping. After some reading of what you the ecig community calls "steeping". To me it sounds like people simply leave the ejuice out to oxidate slightly and it has effects on the flavor of the juice. What are some of the best methods of steeping and do companies pre-steep there solutions? Is steeping a preference or is it pretty universal and everyone likes steeping there ejuice?

Sorry if this post is quite long, but I wanted to learn from experienced individuals on the knowledge surrounding ejuice so I can possibly make ejuice in the future.

Thanks so much and I look forward to reading you responses and having a discussion.

 

[tayone415]

PG is a better flavor carrier and if used with nicotine amplifies the throat hit but is not a good vapor producer.

VG is sweeter thicker liquid that produces more vapor, but doesn't carry flavor as well.

There are lots of different mixtures for PG/VG depending on the juice line or person doing DIY juice. 100 VG is only possible if using 100 USP VG and no nicotine or flavoring.

Distilled water is added by just a few drops to a small mixture, to thin out liquids based on preference of the juice creator.

There is a DIY section you can browse

DIY E-Liquid

 

[BiLLi0]

Hey and welcome.

I don't like PG because I get my lips and mouth very dry so it makes the vaping experience a bit painful, specially when drinking alcohol. I now only get liquids with 100% VG.

When I don't like the taste I add VG and distilled water. It makes the flavor lighter.

 

[crobinson]

I was trying to find the DIY section while browsing. I must have browsed too quickly. What are you thoughts on steeping and what is it exactly?

I also had a quick question on how the atomizer in the e cigs worked. Does it just take some of the ejuice, heat it until it vaporizes and then the user breathes in to draw it from the device? Or is the mechanism of the atomizer different than that?

 

[glowplug]

PG is a better flavor carrier and if used with nicotine amplifies the throat hit but is not a good vapor producer.

VG is sweeter thicker liquid that produces more vapor, but doesn't carry flavor as well.

There are lots of different mixtures for PG/VG depending on the juice line or person doing DIY juice. 100 VG is only possible if using 100 USP VG and no nicotine or flavoring.

Distilled water is added by just a few drops to a small mixture, to thin out liquids based on preference of the juice creator.

There is a DIY section you can browse

DIY E-Liquid

If one were to use a vg based nicotine then you could, in fact, have juice that is 100% vg with nicotine. In addition, one could create vg flavorings so it is possible to have 100% vg juice.

I agree that the pg flavorings are richer and stronger. Therefore, a max vg juice would have some pg in it to provide the best flavors.

Some folks vape unflavored juice and would be able to get the 100% vg. I doubt it would be good for anything but dripping due to the thick nature of vg. In addition, vg has its own natural sweetness so the vape would be a bit sweet. Not bad really, but for me, too much vg causes swamp lung. Pg is my friend.

Lots of folks make their own coffee, tea, herbal, tobacco etc. flavorings. Many, like myself, just buy the flavorings from a trusted source. I have heard repeatedly that coconut based vg is the best quality and flavor for mixing. There is so much information on DIY juices, including excellent threads here on ECF that I think the op would be best served reading these posts first. There is so much, you will be busy for quite awhile!

 

[glowplug]

I was trying to find the DIY section while browsing. I must have browsed too quickly. What are you thoughts on steeping and what is it exactly?

I also had a quick question on how the atomizer in the e cigs worked. Does it just take some of the ejuice, heat it until it vaporizes and then the user breathes in to draw it from the device? Or is the mechanism of the atomizer different than that?

Really, youtube is your friend in this research you seem to be doing. That being said, here is a very quick summary: there is a coil made of kanthal wire (usually...some are using titanium and other metals, but Kanthal is the go to for many of us). The gauge of the wire, the diameter of the coil and the number of wraps will determine the ohms of the resulting coil. That coil is threaded with a wicking material such as silica, cotton, ceramic wick, rayon etc. The legs of the coil are attached to a positive and negative post. The battery provides current to the coil which in turn heats up and vaporizes the juice that has been picked up by the wick. This is the simple explanation...even the enclosed, premade heads that are used in many 'tanks' have the same set up: coil, wick and a method for the juice delivery to the wick.

 

[tayone415]

If one were to use a vg based nicotine then you could, in fact, have juice that is 100% vg with nicotine. In addition, one could create vg flavorings so it is possible to have 100% vg juice.

Is it possible to make e juice without the use of PG? Yes, but in the end the final mixture can NOT be 100% VG. As an example if I took some water (VG) and poured it in a cup, then took a bag of tea for flavor (flavoring) and added honey (nicotine) to it and some add sugar (artificial sweetener) that is sometimes used, I can't say it's 100% water anymore.

Update:

As e juice can be 100% VG based, it can't be 100% VG unless it is 100% pure unflavored and without nicotine and not diluted with distilled water or vodka etc.

 

[glowplug]

DIY E-Liquid

Here is your link to the DIY section. There are complete forums devoted to DIY all over the web. Great info and great recipes to be had for a few clicks of the mouse!

 

[Auntie Mame]

Hi my name is Chris. I am new to this site but have heard great things and wanted to learn from the collaborative efforts of the helpful individuals on this site.

Welcome, Chris. Much of what you are asking is answered in this section, particularly in the DIY sub forum. General E-Liquid Discussion I offer my answers only.

I am a graduate student at the Colorado School of Mines in Chemical Engineering and wanted to start making e cig solutions. I understand the chemistry of these solutions but have noticed that preference is everything with e cigs. So I was wondering what the effects of different PG and VG in solutions are? Also what are some favorite amounts of PG and VG? I have seen some people do 100% VG and then there are tons of different options in between.

PG and VG have different viscosity. VG tends to be much thicker. The use of distilled water is usually used to thin VG, very little is used. PG seems to carry flavors better and provides a lot of what is called the throat hit. I am not fond of big throat hits so I prefer juice with more VG than PG. Having said that, because PG seems to carry flavor better so juices with a lot of VG do seem to me to have flavors that are a bit muted. VG also provides a bit of sweetness not present in PG.

My next question was which base flavor is more effective. I am not sure but have guessed that flavoring is provided as a PG flavoring, a VG flavoring or possibly a water based flavoring. Which one of these usually has the strongest flavor through your experience?

Part of this I answered above. NOTE: Some flavors are extracted in alcohol.

Another question I had was the use of distilled water in ejuice. Does it "water down" the flavor or make the ejuice worse. What are you opinions on using water in ejuice?

Finally, my last question has to deal with steeping. After some reading of what you the ecig community calls "steeping". To me it sounds like people simply leave the ejuice out to oxidate slightly and it has effects on the flavor of the juice. What are some of the best methods of steeping and do companies pre-steep there solutions? Is steeping a preference or is it pretty universal and everyone likes steeping there ejuice?

I am not a science whiz and I don't play one on TV. I am however the daughter of a chef and damn good cook. In my opinion, flavors in e-juice develop in a similar manner as flavors develop in food or wine or great whiskey. If you take the top off to allow for oxidation, you also let any alcohol odors fade away. Flavors need to mix well with one another-the reason everyone says shake, shake, shake. As those flavors intermingle, some intensify, some mellow out. Some are terrific after a day or two, some take weeks, months.

Sorry if this post is quite long, but I wanted to learn from experienced individuals on the knowledge surrounding ejuice so I can possibly make ejuice in the future.

Again, this is just my take on things. The forum will give you much much more.

 

[crobinson]

Thanks so much and its good to see some people from colorado on this site. Im sure since you live in lakewood you know plenty of people from mines. Well thanks for the info and Ill start checking out the DIY thread to learn more about ejuice

 

[Felipe Ascencio]

100% Vg all the way

 

[glowplug]

Is it possible to make e juice without the use of PG? Yes, but in the end the final mixture can NOT be 100% VG. As an example if I took some water (VG) and poured it in a cup, then took a bag of tea for flavor (flavoring) and added honey (nicotine) to it and some add sugar (artificial sweetener) that is sometimes used, I can't say it's 100% water anymore.

Update:

As e juice can be 100% VG based, it can't be 100% VG unless it is 100% pure unflavored and without nicotine and not diluted with distilled water or vodka etc.

I stand corrected, the nicotine is the additional ingredient even if it is in vg. But then to be 100% accurate, one would have to define vg. Not all vg is created equal.

Sorry to have derailed with a hypothetical on the possibility of 100% vg juice. It was enjoyable and educational (for me) but not on topic.

 

[glowplug]

Thanks so much and its good to see some people from colorado on this site. Im sure since you live in lakewood you know plenty of people from mines. Well thanks for the info and Ill start checking out the DIY thread to learn more about ejuice

Good morning Chris! Although I am close, I really don't know anyone from the school. I suppose it might be due to the number of years that have passed since I was in college!!! LOL! We just don't travel in the same circles. In fact, I am pretty much of a hermit these days. "Just don't get around much anymore"

While you are gearing up to get into making your own juice, Vapor Leaf and Elements of Vapor are both great vape shops on this side of town. One is on Colfax, a bit east of Kipling and the other is pretty much at Wadsworth and I 70. Both are easy access for you and both have outstanding folks and products. The mark up is not outrageous and the juice, especially at VL, is reasonably priced.

 

[Kaezziel]

As for steeping, you are considering two different things at the same time. Breathing and Steeping.
Breathing is leaving the bottle open to allow the alcohols used in the mix to evaporate out.
Steeping is basically just letting the flavors intermingle and mix together more uniformly over time so that the flavor combination becomes more coherent.
Check out member Seanchai's blog for more info on steeping...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/seanchai/5416-what-steeping-how-do-i-do.html