Business idea focused on high quality "pure" extractions for e-lquids ....looking for feedback please!

[chailljb2270]

Hello, my name is Jason and I am a new member to this online forum and I am impressed with the vast amount of information on what I thought was a newer market. It seems like a lot of folks are now vaping and I am one of them. I use an EVOD I got at the local head shop, with the $6 / 15 mL e-liquids, I prefer the fruit flavors at the moment. I have completely stopped chewing tobacco by substituting with e-cig vaping. For me I feel that there is a lower risk to my health with this method. I think the popularity of these liquids and their uses will increase over time, especially with additional time for research and a further understanding of what impurities and additives actually have confirmed medical side effects.

I'm not a MD, PhD, or chemist. My background has to do with engineering processes and equipment for manufacturing products in regulated (FDA) environments both medical devices and pharmaceuticals. From just being interested in learning more about the "how to" mix, what ingredients to use, etc. I've become more cautious as to how to get started in my garage to try and come up with a tasty liquid to vaporize, after reading many of the posts on this forum. How do people that are DIY or buying these 15 mL artfully decorated bottles from the head shop know that the contents are safe to put into your lungs?

Many of the juices I found at the local head shop came from California, but the labels did not meet the AEMSA-Standards_Version-1-7-1 labeling requirements. I read some of the FDA Adverse Event Reporting System (FAERS) that show reports of patients dying due to what the person that wrote the filing say they believed were caused by e-cigs. Most of the FAERS for e-cigs showed patients with skin irritation, mucus build up, some more serious ones that I read showed negative impacts to blood pressure and the heart in some of the reports, mostly were minor and did not result in death or additional hospitalization for the patient.
Further research showed a laboratory that put 5 name brand e-cigs on smoking machines, and one of the Chinese manufacturer's devices after the study showed metals such as Tin in high percentages. I understand the FDA does not have a ruling yet for how they will someday categorize the e-liquids that contain nicotine. At this time I am not buying any "juice" that isn't made in the USA.

So I am wondering now taking this one step further, which "organic" and "natural" flavor additives, which many references to different vendors have been discussed on this forum, have any scientific evidence that they are safe for inhaling. Do any of the suppliers for these additive "flavors" provide documented evidence that the extract has some purity with independent testing traceable to some standard?

I've seen some recent news about High Pressure Supercritical/Subcritical Extraction that I found interesting and was wondering if this extraction method could be vaiable to produce extracts for the e-liquids market? I read about some specific equipment that uses CO2 as the solvent and results have been shown in extractions with negligible impurities left behind, as many of the other methods I've read about for example butane extraction leaves behind small percentages of the solvent used. I don't know what type of extraction is being done for example on the Organic Blue Violet e-liquid Organic Blue Violet E-liquid | Virgin Vapor | Electronic Cigarette Organic e-Liquid | Electronic Cigarettes

I am very curious to learn how some small business could get their foot into the door to provide a virgin vapor, the DIY person, or any company in between a super pure extract flavor made via the above mentioned method, when would it be cost effective, etc? I'm trying to get an understanding of if there could be a potential for this type of product offering, is it being done already, what are the volumes of extracts being used now, what demand is there for the high end "gourmet" "organic" "natural" fruit and flower flavors that don't contain artificial flavors?

Please any feedback is appreciated.

Thank you and happy vaping. - Jason

 

[Fast and Furious]

Jason - I too am new. I wish you well - but you are most likely in for a rough ride when it comes to this subject. I suspect the quoted lines below will lead the discussion far away from that which you seek. Good luck though and I'd bet 'it's already been done'.

And it begins, "I read some of the FDA Adverse Event Reporting System (FAERS) that show reports of patients dying due to what the person that wrote the filing say they believed were caused by e-cigs."

Tom (stepping way back)

 

[NoVaWolf]

<Not touching the FAERS stuff with a 10 foot pole....>

A suggestion - read lots of posts in the DIY section, including the subsection on extracting tobaccos. Do a search on D Vap's WTA research and development. Read posts in the medical section, too, and in the Legislative section. All of those will give you a ton of information that touches on/confirms/refutes several of your questions/concerns above. While vaping as a THR of choice may not be 100% completely safe for each and every person on the planet, I firmly believe it is magnitudes safer than smoking/chewing tobacco... Knowledge is power, and questioning is good - and ECF is the right place to get the answers and empowering knowledge of vaping.

 

[chailljb2270]

Jason - I too am new. I wish you well - but you are most likely in for a rough ride when it comes to this subject. I suspect the quoted lines below will lead the discussion far away from that which you seek. Good luck though and I'd bet 'it's already been done'.

And it begins, "I read some of the FDA Adverse Event Reporting System (FAERS) that show reports of patients dying due to what the person that wrote the filing say they believed were caused by e-cigs."

Tom (stepping way back)

Tom:
Thank you for your feedback. I believe you are correct, I didn't write this to scare anyone about health risks or advise anyone to do anything differently than they're doing now, I was mainly interested in if others uses for these expensive CO2 closed loop extraction systems in regards to the high end flavor additive niche part of the e-cig liquids, if there is a demand or could there be?

You mentioned "already been done", do you mean the market is flooded already in the US with high end e-juice flavor additives? I've seen where many folks say the cheaper 100% PG e-liquids (different flavors) many come from over seas. Which e-cig flavors from the US would you think have the best chance that exist today to meet future FDA requirements (that are not known), for lot traceability (many of these bottles don't have lot #s or manu. dates, or use by dates, etc.), validated process, testing results for impurities? I am just wondering mainly what all is inside the flavor additive portion of the mixes. I've seen many w/ artificial flavors, some bases from soy oils, many things used for cooking that are regarded as safe but what about inhalation?

I heard yellow number five was bad in the mt. dews, so is it OK to inhale? Maybe nobody knows long term what some of these chemicals do to our lungs but I'm saying knowing something that is known to be harmful has been removed and having an independent verification that proves purity, I'd pick the most pure thing to inhale.

For example: if the violet blue or black cherry etc. (pick your favorite flavor and insert it here) whatever 15 mL is now $13.95 from a well known and liked vendor and lets say XYZ company's new "organic / all natural, flavors extracted from Orchids that are sun dried in Hawaii" using CO2 extraction juice sells for 13.95 which one would you buy? Assume you'd buy one or the other just for the sake of the topic, I'd assume most that may see this would just DIY!

Thanks for the comments, please reply when you get time.
Jason

 

[chailljb2270]

I really appreciate your feedback and I'll read more and research more, thanks for the references, I'm going to check them out!
I so totally agree that since I stopped chewing tobacco and switched to the vape, I feel better, costs less, and I think it is much better for my health. Mouth, teeth, gums, are feeling so much better and the flavor, and other needs are met much better than before, a win-win in my book.

 

[NoVaWolf]

You're very welcome! In addition to the various ECF suggestions, a site you may enjoy is The Flavor Apprentice: Perfumers Apprentice - The Flavor Apprentice - World of Flavors She has a lot of information on how food flavorings are actually developed and manufactured, and she is extremely conscientious of the safety of her flavorings. When you see 'TFA' referenced in the DIY subforum, this is the US-based manufacturer being referenced.

There's already lot of different options for US-made FDA-approved food flavorings, both artificial and natural (a few are even certified organic). Maybe you'll be the next one, or maybe instead of making flavoring extracts, you can just make great US-based eliquids with US-based flavorings and turn that into a business - lots of folks have successfully done so! In any case, you've found vaping and are already feeling it's benefits, so you're already ahead in the game!

 

[Fast and Furious]

Again - I am new to vaping in general; on Day Eight. Personally, I researched HARDWARE for a long while before beginning. I have read - which does not make it fact - about "all natural" and "organic" e-liquids. Vendors make note of "USA Made" and honestly some imply their "ingredients" are quite proprietary. I cannot answer many of your detailed questions - I am not qualified.

Just some random thoughts as I reread your last post:

In ALL HONESTY - I have never asked anyone beyond my local "Brick and Mortar Shop" about the flavorings as I have only bought from them - because my family recommended them - I followed like the proverbial sheep. I DO know their ingredients ALL have an "expiration date". They mix when I order and place a 'date and time mixed' on the bottle. They appear to have 'checks and balances'. This is definitely NO guarantee it is 100% safe and their 'flavorings' while supposedly 'Made in the USA' could well come from virtually anywhere - even 'China'. My local shop is if nothing else a stickler for "cleanliness" and I can only hope their ingredients are as represented to them by their suppliers.

In a sad way anything we ingest / inhale can certainly hurt us. If I were to claim "there is NO risk" from using these e-cigarettes, I would be a fool. I DO believe there is far less than with conventional tobacco products and can only hope it not be proven to be otherwise.

Yes, some vendors do claim to use a proprietary high-grade flavoring. Beyond these 'claims' - we are ALL at the mercy of the individual mixing the product. A lot of trust to put in a product we inhale and I would not be truthful if I said at times I wonder about some of the claims made by vendors. There are far more out there than those represented here on the forum.

I best not comment further. Sorry if I misled you in any way.

Tom

 

[Coldrake]

There is a lot of misinformation out there. You should take some time and do some reading at CASAA - The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association. There's a ton of great information there. CASAA is free to join and only takes a minute.