Can i ask a really stupid question about these online DIY calculators?

[JuniorNA]

Ok so those of you that don't know me...i've been vaping on and off for 4 years, and finally got enough mental strength, and hardware to finally kick the analogs and stay strong. I've been relying on other ejuice vendors to satisfy my urges, but slowly i'm starting to realize that i'm just a simple guy, Tobacco + menthol = Happy Junior.

So what i'm starting to realize in these DIY calcs are ...when they ask you how many drops for your flavoring, there is no place for me to put the flavor's nic level.

For example

Base liquid = 60MG
Target 30MG
Flavoring 20%

So if i wanted a 2ML bottle, it would tell me 10 drops of base, 2 of 0 nic, and say 8 drops of my flavor and 1 drop of menthol.

But what if the flavor i'm using is already at 24mg nic? Then it throws the whole calc off and I can't find a calc that allows me to factor in the flavoring nic MG, they are all based off of flavors and not existing eliquid.

Am i being dumb or am I not finding one? and if i am being dumb, can you tell me how to factor in the MG of the liquid your mixing to maintain your same target MG ?

My base will always be 36mg PG, or 60mg VG, depends on what i feel like using...and my target will always be around 30mg.

Also, if anyone has any great menthol calculators or recipes, send them my way! in the meantime, i'll be searching through this sub-forum to find out the best menthol-tobacco vapes.

Thanks guys!

 

[canoeist]

Oops..............................nevermind

 

[1atom12]

Here ya go!!!

E-Liquid Recipe Mixing Calculator - Flavor's With Nicotine and/or 2nd Base Nicotine

 

[AzPlumber]

The E Juice Me Up calculator has a tool that allows you to calculate the results of two different nic liquids before adding them to the recipe.

 

[JuniorNA]

Perfect. Thanks gangstas

 

[wizard10000]

Mine is gonna be the unpopular opinion maybe, but I'm a strong supporter of Learning To Do The Math.

I think that anybody of average intelligence can do the calculations in their head or on paper without a whole lot of trouble - metric measurements are fairly simple and I think there's something a bit liberating about not having to depend on a tool to get you where you want to be.

I'm not picking on anybody in particular and especially not picking on OP - his post just caused me to think about stuff that makes me cringe, like people using 100mg nic who can't mix it without a tool. Data entry errors happen and if one can't do the math they wouldn't be able to tell from the calculator output that they were about to screw something up.

I didn't allow my kids to use calculators in school unless they could show their work first, and I think being able to do the math makes one a better mixologist

Again, I'm not picking on anyone - but I'd strongly recommend folks learn to run the numbers without the calculator, then make a choice about whether they really want to use it. I'd bet most of them would find the calculators just get in the way if they can do the math with a pen and paper

 

[canoeist]

I am with wizard on this, I don't use the calculators either. I keep my mix notes in excel.

 

[JuniorNA]

Lol yes I agree that it's better to know it and do it on your Own but it doesn't make you any less or a person or any less Intelligent just because you'd rather do it the "lazy" way.

I could say this. Pilots could use their Breitling navitimer watch to pinpoint their location on the globe but they would rather let the plane do it for then

Same concept ....but I do agree with the math guys here to rely on yourself and not a program. But then after you do it yourself. Let the calculator double check it for you



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[GoodDog]

I think the calculators are a PITA and much prefer doing it myself. But I don't DIY like most I guess and prefer to keep it simple. If I'm in the range of 80PG/20VG and 8-12mg nicotine I'm happy. I'm the only one using it right now so if it doesn't bother me, well... I buy 48mg nicotine, fill my bottle 1/4th full, add my flavorings as per my notes and by smell and top it off with 50/50 PG/VG. I vape right away understanding that it will get better after a day or so and don't worry about anything else. KISS

 

[Scubabatdan]

[Begin Rant]
I created my calculator because I did not want to sit and figure all day, I would rather plug numbers in and have it tell me all the ingredient quantities to use. I move between so many different ml vs mg ratios that I need to do it quickly and precisely. A calculator is nothing more than a set number of formulas that arrive at a unknown number based on the input. We use other peoples formulas such as P=V*I (ohms law) to make spreadsheets on atomizer ohms values but quibble over people using a set of formulas to calculate mixing ratios?

Here is an example,

I want to make 100ml of 24mg juice, I have on hand the following:

Less than 90ml of 12mg, and less than 30ml of 100mg juice

What would be the quantities in ml of each mg juice I need to mix to make 100ml of 24?

This is a fun formula to figure out, but now that I have it in a formula, I can plug all of those numbers in and it will tell me how much of each I need. And I can change the target to make on the fly with out having to recalculate it all.

I do agree that everyone should understand the basic formulas so they understand how the calculations work. But most people just want to know the answer and are not concerned how they arrive at it, so long as it is right, or do not know how to arrive at some more complex calculations.
If I did simple calculations over and over of the same ml and mg quantities I would not need it, but if I am using 5 different flavors each in a different ratio and need to add 15% of the total mix in flavors the calculator is a fast way to figure the amount of each flavor to add up to 15%.

i.e
15.2 parts Apple (Lorann)
15.2 parts Maple (Lorann)
4 parts Coconut (Lorann)
4 parts Orange Cream (Lorann)
2 parts Cinnamon (TPA)

So how many ml of each do I need to make 15% of 250ml?
Now do that for 40 different recipes at varing concentration levels.

So for those of you that don’t use or need calculators, no problem you can do the long math. For those of us that don’t want to spend the time figuring all day to knock out 40 liters of varying degrees of flavor and mg strengths, find these calculators invaluable.
Just my
Dan
[/End Rant]

 

[VaperEd]

This may help.

DIY E-Liquid (E-Juice) Mixing Station!

 

[wizard10000]

[Begin Rant]...

Pretty good rant, Dan

We're a lot closer on this than you think - we agree that people should understand the basic formulas, which is pretty much all I said above. I have no issue with someone who has a basic understanding of how the ingredients go together using whatever method they choose to get to where they want to be.

I have no problem with the tools - I get nervous when people use a tool as a substitute for knowledge they should have if they're gonna be working with fairly poisonous stuff, that's all. If you can do the math, use the calculator. If you can't do the math IMO you shouldn't be messing with the stuff at all

 

[panachronic]

Pretty good rant, Dan

We're a lot closer on this than you think - we agree that people should understand the basic formulas, which is pretty much all I said above. I have no issue with someone who has a basic understanding of how the ingredients go together using whatever method they choose to get to where they want to be.

I have no problem with the tools - I get nervous when people use a tool as a substitute for knowledge they should have if they're gonna be working with fairly poisonous stuff, that's all. If you can do the math, use the calculator. If you can't do the math IMO you shouldn't be messing with the stuff at all

Yep. You guys are both right. We should know what we're doing before we play around with these chemicals, but there's nothing wrong with using a tool to make it easier.

 

[wizard10000]

Yep. You guys are both right. We should know what we're doing before we play around with these chemicals, but there's nothing wrong with using a tool to make it easier.

Exactly. I apologize if I led people to believe I meant otherwise.

 

[Scubabatdan]

I agree that people need to know how to do the formulas to get a better understanding, but some people are mystified by numbers. And if someone else has already taken the time to test all the equations then I have no problems with them using it. I am all about helping people, if they have questions I will help them to get the answer. And I have had numerous people over the years ask me for the formulas because they could not figure it out. I would rather people ask the questions and get answers rather than made to seem inferior because they do not know and won’t ask the question because of seeing other members responses. No I am not bashing just making it clear that the only dumb question is the one not asked, and how will people find the answer if they do not ask.

Ok so I asked yesterday for answers to my problems. Since I like to share, here are the formulas for calculating the answer to my questions

Problem one:
I want to achieve a target of 100ml of 24mg but only have on hand less than 90ml of 12mg, and less than 30ml of 100mg juice

12mg calculation: ((24mg*100ml)-100ml*100mg)/(12mg-100mg) = 86.36ml

100mg calculation: ((12mg*100ml)-24mg*100ml)/(12mg-100mg) = 13.64ml

Result: 100ml of 24mg

Problem 2:
I have 5 different flavors and need to find the ml amount of each to make 15% of 250ml.
250ml * 15% = 37.5ml
Parts per flavor: 15.2 + 15.2 + 4 + 4 + 2 = 40.4

15.2 parts Apple (Lorann); 15.2/40.4 * 37.5 = 14.11ml
15.2 parts Maple (Lorann); 15.2/40.4 * 37.5 = 14.11ml
4 parts Coconut (Lorann); 4/40.4 * 37.5 = 3.71ml
4 parts Orange Cream (Lorann); 4/40.4 * 37.5 = 3.71ml
2 parts Cinnamon (TPA); 2/40.4 * 37.5 = 1.86ml

14.11ml + 14.11ml + 3.71ml + 3.71ml + 1.86ml = 37.5ml

Well hope this helps someone.
Dan

Added:
Some have asked me why I use parts for figuring flavors, the answer is all my testing are done with drops, drops are akin to parts being the drop as the number of parts per flavor. When I am working on a recipe I mix toward the flavor I an trying to achieve and then I have to convert it to ml or to figure out the percentage, and working with parts is easy as they do not have to add up to 100%. So that is why I use parts, and always count drops when making a flavor. So long as I am using the same dropper for all the flavor everything should be right in the world. Once I have it stored I never have to use drops for that flavor again for the recipe I created. Now I can use ml's, and just plug in what percent of the total target amount I want to make and it will tell me the ml of each flavor. Now I can replicate this flavor at any % or ml amount consistantly.
Capice?
Dan

 

[AzPlumber]

Dan just saw your post a bit ago and was calculating but for question 1 I went with 50ml of 12mg = 600 & 18ml of 100mg = 1800 (600 + 1800 = 2400) Didn't want to use up all my 12 and they are nice round numbers.

I posted this just to show others a problem can be solved several ways.

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

Pretty good rant, Dan
We're a lot closer on this than you think - we agree that people should understand the basic formulas, which is pretty much all I said above. I have no issue with someone who has a basic understanding of how the ingredients go together using whatever method they choose to get to where they want to be.

I agree that people need to know how to do the formulas to get a better understanding, but some people are mystified by numbers.

I agree with you both, but would perhaps want to nuance or nitpick Wizard's turn of phrase there a bit:
It isn't IMO very critical to understand the formulas, but what is critical is to understand the basic proportions of what should be in a juice, and to have a rough idea of what proportions you want in your next blend BEFORE you plug the numbers into a calculator.

If you don't have any idea of the basic proportions you are very vulnerable to input errors, and if you are mixing by drops you are even more vulnerable IMO.

I'm not that fond of calculating things myself - especially not when it gets more complex. So I am very very grateful to Scubabatdan for the excel-sheet - which I've found invaluable exactly for combining different strength nic-bases (as I perceive nic to influence flavour quite a lot I have several bottles of simple flavours mixed to a lower nic than I usually like to vape).

But I always, always read what any calculator tells me and ask myself: Does this seem reasonable? If not, why? And then I reason back to what I put in from the answer the calculator gives me.

I very seldom take numbers straight out of a calculator and apply them - in fact I only do that when they happen to confirm what I had already calculated in my head, or are at most 0.01 -0.01 ml off (I don't as yet do batches larger than 12-13ml).

When I was very new I used two or three calculators, just to be extra sure. (Now I use an android one in my phone (which has an awesome PG/VG slider) for simple stuff, and scubabatdan's spreadsheet to double check anything more complex.)

The most important thing I learnt in school when it comes to math was the time spent on *estimating*. I don't remember at what age this was - maybe 12? 14? - but one whole semester every math class would include lots of "guessing tasks". The point of these was not to get the right answer, but to say in what range the right answer would be. And much discussion about various ways to think about this.
The second most important math-y or science-y thing I learned in school was paying attention to the place of the comma, and to units. This was drilled so hard that I still don't understand why calculators have special buttons for % - for me it is just faster to key in 0.XY (the percentage) times Z than to try to understand where I would hit the %-button. Converting between fractions and decimals/percentage was also given much time, but there I wasn't paying attention well enough - I have to use the skills I learned wrt estimating when I have to do that quickly .

 

[Scubabatdan]

Dan just saw your post a bit ago and was calculating but for question 1 I went with 50ml of 12mg = 600 & 18ml of 100mg = 1800 (600 + 1800 = 2400) Didn't want to use up all my 12 and they are nice round numbers.

I posted this just to show others a problem can be solved several ways.

Agreed if your intent is to only achive 24mg juice and not worried about the quantity. But if you are trying to come up with specific ml and mg numbers, then that formula would do it. There are many ways around the mountain, one only has to choose the route to arrive at their destination.
Great job,
Dan