Chipsets & Battery Efficiency

[FreddieC]

In the realm of dual 18650 mods, is there a chipset that stands out in battery conservation?

I can grab my dotSquonk, and vape all day at 65w without recharging or replacing the 21700 battery. Obviously, dotmod's chipset places the mod in sleep mode following each hit to conserve the battery, which I believe is genius.

However, 65w on something like an Aegis Legend and dual 18650's will only last a few hours when I want to vape my favorite sub-ohm tanks.

Is there a dual 18650 mod out there with a chipset that's efficient with battery consumption?

Thanks!

 

[Baditude]

IMHO, any mod that uses a DNA chip set will be more battery efficient.

The original Aegis Legend had a firmware glitch that affected its battery efficiency. If you haven't upgraded your Aegis Legend for the latest firmware update then do so, as that should help.

 

[Lordron's_Drag]

Or just swap batteries. Or you can be like cause I never know what life is going to throw at me next

 

[Baditude]

However, 65w on something like an Aegis Legend and dual 18650's will only last a few hours when I want to vape my favorite sub-ohm tanks.

Is there a dual 18650 mod out there with a chipset that's efficient with battery consumption?

Just curious, which 18650 batteries are you using? The amp rating and the wattage that you vape at is critical to which batteries you should be using.

-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts for three batteries.

-If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, you're good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

-If you use a single 25 amp CDR battery like the Sony VTC5A, then you are good for 75 watts per battery, 150 watts for two batteries, and 225 watts with three.

-If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts.​

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

​

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

 

[Lordron's_Drag]

Or just swap batteries. Or you can be like cause I never know what life is going to throw at me next

 

[FreddieC]

IMHO, any mod that uses a DNA chip set will be more battery efficient.

The original Aegis Legend had a firmware glitch that affected its battery efficiency. If you haven't upgraded your Aegis Legend for the latest firmware update then do so, as that should help.

I've considered the DNA chipset (Paranormal), but I couldn't find anything published about battery efficiency.

Haven't upgraded the firmware on the Legend, but I always seem to be at a disadvantage with updates because I use a Mac, so I haven't investigated the update.

 

[FreddieC]

Just curious, which 18650 batteries are you using? The amp rating and the wattage that you vape at is critical to which batteries you should be using.

-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts for three batteries.

-If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, you're good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

-If you use a single 25 amp CDR battery like the Sony VTC5A, then you are good for 75 watts per battery, 150 watts for two batteries, and 225 watts with three.

-If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts.​

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

​

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

I have a pair of LG HG2's, and 2 more pairs of Sony VTC5A's. I definitely stick with quality batteries, 20amps and above. Thanks for the great response. A lot of information there I hadn't considered.

 

[Baditude]

I've considered the DNA chipset (Paranormal), but I couldn't find anything published about battery efficiency.

My opinion is based on my personal experience.

Before I got my Jac Vapour DNA75, I was using a 3-battery Wisemic RX200 and a 2-battery Segelei 213 Plus. I got a little better than a full day's vape time with the same Samsung 30Q 3000mAh 15A batteries, all of the same age, same 30 watt setting on the mods.

With the single battery JAC DNA, I get a full days vape usage with the same batteries and same 30 watt setting.

Seems to me the only different factor in the three mods is the chip set used. Each of the boards probably have differing low voltage cutoffs, which can determine how long you can use the battery before you get a 'low battery' warning.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

From Evolve

DNA250C 95% Efficiency
DNA75C 85% Efficiency

As @Baditude mentioned, update your Legend if you haven’t already done so. Battery life is much improved.

Efficiency is not a static figure and can very depending on your device and your prescribed settings. Unfortunately we do not have the objective data that shows how efficient a device is at what setting

Also, not all batteries operate the same either. You can look at Mooch’s battery tests and some may reveille that they hit that 3.2 volts cut off earlier than others despite the same mAh rating.

Example: LG HG2 hits 3.2 volts at around ~1600mAh when drawing 15 amps. Samsung 30Q around 1800mAh for the same current draw. Both are 3000mAh rated.

 

[FreddieC]

IMHO, any mod that uses a DNA chip set will be more battery efficient.

The original Aegis Legend had a firmware glitch that affected its battery efficiency. If you haven't upgraded your Aegis Legend for the latest firmware update then do so, as that should help.

Just checked, and I have the latest firmware version for the Legend, but I'm definitely looking for something else with more efficient chipset.

 

[Heidi S]

However, 65w on something like an Aegis Legend and dual 18650's will only last a few hours when I want to vape my favorite sub-ohm tanks.

I use an aegis legend with a set of Sony vtc5a batteries and a set of Molicel p26a batteries. I use a mesh pro tank with double and triple coils anywhere between 80 -90 watts - battery life lasts me at least a day and a half. I also upgraded the firmware.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

That is bizarre. Although I do not have any defining numbers, both my Legends operate for a similar amount of time as my Lost Vape Paranormal under the same wattage and even using the same batteries. And the DNA 250C is one of the higher rated chips in terms of efficiency. Perhaps your low operating time is due to poor performing cells.

As for devices with high efficiency – the majority of manufactures do not release this spec and given the vast differences between how each individual vapes, that is a difficult recommendation to make. But if you are comfortable with the higher price of a DNA, look for a DNA250C device such as the Lost Vape Paranormal, or even the Lost Vape Triade which is a marvel at how small a 3 cell device can be. Little heavier, but with 3 cells you’ll enjoy a much extended battery life. There are many other benefits to DNA devices which makes their price of admission a little more acceptable.

 

[TheRaiden]

Just curious, which 18650 batteries are you using? The amp rating and the wattage that you vape at is critical to which batteries you should be using.

-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts for three batteries.

-If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, you're good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

-If you use a single 25 amp CDR battery like the Sony VTC5A, then you are good for 75 watts per battery, 150 watts for two batteries, and 225 watts with three.

-If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts.​

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

​

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

Hm, ok. I am running a Smoant Naboo with 2x VTC6's and i am happily vaping at 145W.
The battery's do not get hot even if i'm chain vaping and the device is putting out 145W, big difference at for instance 100w (much colder vapour)

But according to your chart i should be maxing out at 90W. Does this mean i am damaging the battery's or what, because as i said they are not even getting hot and usually last me the whole day.......

 

[Baditude]

Hm, ok. I am running a Smoant Naboo with 2x VTC6's and i am happily vaping at 145W.
The battery's do not get hot even if i'm chain vaping and the device is putting out 145W, big difference at for instance 100w (much colder vapour)

But according to your chart i should be maxing out at 90W. Does this mean i am damaging the battery's or what, because as i said they are not even getting hot and usually last me the whole day.......

Your mod is limited to the power output of the batteries that you use. Since the output of two Sony VTC6's will be limited to just 90 watts (45 watts each X 2), even if your mod setting says you are vaping at 145 watts it can't put out more than 90 watts with that mod because of the limitations of those batteries.

You'd get a more realistic power output if you used a couple of 25 amp batteries like the Sony VTC5A, then you'd be good up to 150 watts; or up to 180 watts with a couple of 30 amp batteries if your mod can really put out that much power.

Mod manufacturers can only pack on so many different features into their mods, so they have resorted to making rather unrealistic claims of total wattage output to sell new mods. Its all marketing.

Smoant claims your mod can reach 225 watts, but there are no two 18650 batteries which will allow more than 180 watts output. So don't fall for the marketing hype. That is sort of like believing your car can go 120 miles per hour just because the speedometer gauge goes up to 120.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Hm, ok. I am running a Smoant Naboo with 2x VTC6's and i am happily vaping at 145W.
The battery's do not get hot even if i'm chain vaping and the device is putting out 145W, big difference at for instance 100w (much colder vapour)

But according to your chart i should be maxing out at 90W. Does this mean i am damaging the battery's or what, because as i said they are not even getting hot and usually last me the whole day.......

VTC6 or VTC6A? Cause they have different ratings.

To calculate your current draw on your batteries with a regulated device, divide your set power by how many cells you have. Then divide that figure by the device’s cut off voltage and the efficiency of the chip. We do not know the efficiency of many devices so a safe guess is 90%. And the cut off voltage for the Naboo is ~3.2 volts

So in your case that would be.

145/2 = 72.5

72.5/3.2/0.9 = 25 amps per cell.

Mooch rated the CDR for VT6A as 20 amps or up to 25 amps if the cells are kept under 80°C. The VT6 is a 15amp cell, or up to 20 amps if kept under 80°C. At least that is how I understood his tests.

 

[TheRaiden]

They are VTC6, not VTC6A's.
I also have VTC5A's in rotation and when i use them in the same mod at the same wattages (145W) they give out exactly the same heat and vapour as the VTC6's do.

I'm just worried that i am damaging the VTC6 batteries if i'm running the mod at that wattage or exposing myself to a thermal runaway risk.
But as i said, they don't even get hot when i'm chain vaping, maybe like 25-30°c but not more than that.

Better go order some more VTC5A's i guess

 

[Punk In Drublic]

Your mod is limited to the power output of the batteries that you use. Since the output of two Sony VTC6's will be limited to just 90 watts (45 watts each X 2), even if your mod setting says you are vaping at 145 watts it can't put out more than 90 watts with that mod because of the limitations of those batteries.

If the battery is able to produce the current that is being drawn, the device should be able to reach a wattage that is greater than what is recommended for said cell. Assuming any limitations with design are not being reached. At 145 watts, the device will draw 20 to 25amps per cell depending on the battery voltage. The VTC6 is able to output 25amps, just not safely. The device won’t know if you have a 10 amp cell or a 30 amp.

But when you start running high wattages, you can reach the limitations of the chipset depending on the coil being used. If the device is limited to outputting a maximum of 8 volts, then a 0.5 ohm (or greater) coil at 145 watts will breach that limitation and the device will scale back. V = √PxR (V= √145x0.5 = 8.5 volts). But a 0.3 ohm coil may hit that 145 watts assuming the current limitation are not breached (6.6 volts at 21 amps). Cause we are requesting 145 watts with both cases, assuming the device is not scaling back the power, the current draw on the batteries will be the same.

We can see a lot of this with DJLsb’s measurements where many devices have a problem with higher resistance coils at higher wattages. But we also see with his measurements that some, not all, devices are able to reach their power celling (depending on resistance) despite the current draw on the battery is beyond spec.

 

[Baditude]

I'm just worried that i am damaging the VTC6 batteries if i'm running the mod at that wattage or exposing myself to a thermal runaway risk.
But as i said, they don't even get hot when i'm chain vaping, maybe like 25-30°c but not more than that.

I suggest that you watch the first video I posted above.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

They are VTC6, not VTC6A's.
I also have VTC5A's in rotation and when i use them in the same mod at the same wattages (145W) they give out exactly the same heat and vapour as the VTC6's do.

I'm just worried that i am damaging the VTC6 batteries if i'm running the mod at that wattage or exposing myself to a thermal runaway risk.
But as i said, they don't even get hot when i'm chain vaping, maybe like 25-30°c but not more than that.

Better go order some more VTC5A's i guess

Can’t use vapor production or coil heat as a guide for safely using our batteries with a regulated device.

There are 2 sides to a regulated circuit. The battery side (input) and the coil side (output). The battery has no idea what coil you have attached to the output side of the circuit. All it see’s is the requested power from the circuit. The current draw is Power/Voltage of the battery. But the regulated circuit also requires power for it to function. This is referred to as the efficiency of the circuit. So this also has to be factored in as well. Refer to the equation in my above post.

 

[440BB]

It seems efficiency is something that can vary a great deal within the same brand. My DNA 40 for example is quite a bit more efficient than the DNA 75, while the Evic VTC is much better than the Evic Primo, all at the same power level with the same topper. It seems that without consumer pressure, battery efficiency is not a high priority to the manufacturers.