I am trying to clone a juice I am crazy about. Is there a lab where I could send a sample and get a list of ingredients and/or proportions? I realize it would be expensive, but is it feasible? Pardon me if this is a stupid question, but I have this flavor haunting me.
Clone question. Has anyone tried sending juice to a lab for a definitive ingredient list?
- Thread starter VegasVaap
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
Legally? No, you wouldn't be able to do that--you're stealing somebody else's intellectual property. Hey, recipes cost time and resources to come up with. I'd hate it if somebody stole mine (although you could just ask as I give it away freely, it's quite nice and quite simple).
Most labs will refuse to do the analysis on those grounds, and even if they didn't you're going to get back a list of the chemistry in the mix, not a neatly organized list of flavorings. Some chemicals can only be grouped by testing, and some will be indeterminate unless special tests are performed.
Most labs will refuse to do the analysis on those grounds, and even if they didn't you're going to get back a list of the chemistry in the mix, not a neatly organized list of flavorings. Some chemicals can only be grouped by testing, and some will be indeterminate unless special tests are performed.
I don't think that any eliquid vendor has any legal ownership over their recipes. It's possible that some of them may patent their recipes, but I can't fathom vendors doing this due to cost and, in a sense, 'useless-ness'. Lets say I make a recipe like this
10% TFA Peanut Butter
2% TFA Menthol
Now that you know exactly what my recipe is, you can steal it and avoid a lawsuit at the same time by mixing this
10% TFA Peanut Butter
2.1% TFA Menthol
Thus, the patent becomes rather useless. On top of that, it would be legally very difficult to take someone to court because 'their stuff tastes similar to our patented stuff'. You would need hard evidence that a competitor is indeed using the ExAcT same recipe, down to the tenths of a percentage and with the same flavor vendors (including nic, PG, and VG vendors).
With that said, I highly doubt getting it lab tested will tell you very much. All juices are pretty similar in composition imo. What you would get back would be pretty obvious stuff. Lets say "VegasVaap" is a chemical compound that makes bananas taste like bananas. You send in Gorilla juice, for example, and it shows positive for "VegasVaap". Well, that doesn't help. Now you still need to figure out which flavor manufacturer he's getting his banana from and what % to mix it at, along with the same information for all the other ingredients, and the lab you sent it to couldn't possibly tell you any of that stuff.
10% TFA Peanut Butter
2% TFA Menthol
Now that you know exactly what my recipe is, you can steal it and avoid a lawsuit at the same time by mixing this
10% TFA Peanut Butter
2.1% TFA Menthol
Thus, the patent becomes rather useless. On top of that, it would be legally very difficult to take someone to court because 'their stuff tastes similar to our patented stuff'. You would need hard evidence that a competitor is indeed using the ExAcT same recipe, down to the tenths of a percentage and with the same flavor vendors (including nic, PG, and VG vendors).
With that said, I highly doubt getting it lab tested will tell you very much. All juices are pretty similar in composition imo. What you would get back would be pretty obvious stuff. Lets say "VegasVaap" is a chemical compound that makes bananas taste like bananas. You send in Gorilla juice, for example, and it shows positive for "VegasVaap". Well, that doesn't help. Now you still need to figure out which flavor manufacturer he's getting his banana from and what % to mix it at, along with the same information for all the other ingredients, and the lab you sent it to couldn't possibly tell you any of that stuff.
Just do a little research...you will see many already SELF IMPOSE mandatory testing and quality control...
ECBlend - Certification, FDA cGMP, Better Business Bureau, OSHA, Environment
If they meet AEMSA Standards then you can be pretty sure they ain't mixing this stuff in their bathtub
Or are you referring to the individual components YOU buy to mix your own...to make sure the nicotine concentrate is right or whatnot?
ECBlend - Certification, FDA cGMP, Better Business Bureau, OSHA, Environment
If they meet AEMSA Standards then you can be pretty sure they ain't mixing this stuff in their bathtub
Or are you referring to the individual components YOU buy to mix your own...to make sure the nicotine concentrate is right or whatnot?
Last edited:
Considering one vendor I thought was making amazing liquids was only found to be using one flavorings vendor and only one flavoring in each liquid... Unless the particular liquid you are trying to recreate was put together by some kind of grand wizzard of mixology you may be surprised how not terribly hard it may be to recreate it.
So... what's the liquid in quest(ion)?
So... what's the liquid in quest(ion)?
Chemical analysis isn't as easy as you see on CSI. You need a good idea of what each of the compounds are before you can find them. Searching for unknowns is an exhaustive process.
Actually, since you just broke the veil of secrecy in a very public and very easy to reference way, there's now no copyright on that. It's in the public domain.
Soda companies have sued the crap out of each other over similar tasting recipes, and occasionally won.
I'm in NW Las Vegas. Extreme southern part of the Centennial Hills neighborhood, according to the paper I receive.
The flavor I am crazy about is Wise Guy by Vegas Vapor Emporium. Here's the address.
Wise Guy
I'm gonna start by mixing some RY4, add AP and MTS Vape Wizard and see what happens. With 2 different RY4 concentrations, that'll be 8 different variations to begin my experiments. I can't describe the juice, other than it's more of a feeling than flavor on the inhale. Absolute bliss on the exhale. Kinda subtle and subdued, yet wonderful. I haven't been vaping all that long. To all those who have contributed to these boards, I owe a debt of thanks. If I do achieve a good recipe, I'll post it. Cheers all, Merry Christmas.
The flavor I am crazy about is Wise Guy by Vegas Vapor Emporium. Here's the address.
Wise Guy
I'm gonna start by mixing some RY4, add AP and MTS Vape Wizard and see what happens. With 2 different RY4 concentrations, that'll be 8 different variations to begin my experiments. I can't describe the juice, other than it's more of a feeling than flavor on the inhale. Absolute bliss on the exhale. Kinda subtle and subdued, yet wonderful. I haven't been vaping all that long. To all those who have contributed to these boards, I owe a debt of thanks. If I do achieve a good recipe, I'll post it. Cheers all, Merry Christmas.
Follow your nose? Or, buy a mass spectrometer!! Then you'll know a ballpark estimate of what's in everything from Xa-cola to the most popular energy drink lol.
for the cost of lab work ... probably be cheaper to just buy a couple of gallons from the dudes that came up with it.
There is more than tossing flavors etc. together in producing a fine and unique juice. The "mixologists" have the innate ability to know what, when and why and so much more .
Remember the saying "Better living thru chemistry".
Remember the saying "Better living thru chemistry".
Mixology requiring a chemistry degree... yea right!
That must explain why some of the most popular ejuice out there was formulated next to kitchen sinks. In fact most local vape shops would go out of business if they primarily sold mixed flavors. Mainly because more people buy Hangsen or Dekang flavored juice in the flea markets (mainly due to price) than anything else. Most people (newbies especially) are fairly content with straight up grape, strawberry or whatever. All these custom blends are mainly only sold online or in stores that aren't already making money hand over fist from basic flavors.
That must explain why some of the most popular ejuice out there was formulated next to kitchen sinks. In fact most local vape shops would go out of business if they primarily sold mixed flavors. Mainly because more people buy Hangsen or Dekang flavored juice in the flea markets (mainly due to price) than anything else. Most people (newbies especially) are fairly content with straight up grape, strawberry or whatever. All these custom blends are mainly only sold online or in stores that aren't already making money hand over fist from basic flavors.
After the 10k plus on a spectrometer, might as well buy a few gallons from the b&m...unless you know people.
Post the name of the juice here and do some google searching also. I have found copycat versions of most of the juices I was interested in that way.
Wallace
Wallace
Nutty RY4? I would try some good RY4 with some AP (Acetyl pyrazine) you can get it from TPA. I have a big bottle and still cut it down 50/50 it ads a nice toasty nutty thing.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
