Clone vs Authentic need your help

[dirtybirdy]

I am in the market for a manhattan. It seems almost near impossible to find an authentic color one so I have decided to go with copper.

I want to know is there a difference between the manhattan clones they have out and is it really even going to be noticeable. I don't want to pay an extra $200 if I am not going to notice the difference.

Thanks in advance.

 

[p7willm]

The real is made by a company that has a reputation to protect. They also build fewer. It is easy for them to control quality, use better materials, and better machining (sharpen a tools sooner).

A clone, made by who knows, has no incentive to produce quality. No matter how well they build it you are not going to buy from them again and you are not going to recommend them to your friends.

Is it worth $200? that's your call. Will you be happy with crunchy threads cut at the end of a tool or do you require threads like butter? How do you feel about paying the person who designed to mod for their trouble? If you get two of them does it matter that they are a little different? Do you mind, can you tell, if a different grade of stainless steel was used?

The question isn't will you notice the difference it is are the differences worth $200. I can tell which of my mods are clones and which are real and I feel they are worth what I paid for them.

 

[HauntedMyst]

The real is made by a company that has a reputation to protect.

Normally I'd agree, but AmeraVape seems to have gone out of it's way to destroy it's own reputation. Other than that, I agree with what you said and I buy originals.

 

[dirtybirdy]

I was leaning towards authentic anyways. I just want a hard hitting mod and I keep hearigg manhattan

 

[crxess]

Well there are plenty of Mods out there that will do the job. Both Originals and Clones/Copies/Replicas

Mods are actually pretty GENERIC in function and if built correctly they transfer power correctly.

Find what you like, read Users comments on not only the design but also the Maker(in the case of a clone)

One of my nicest recent purchases is a 4Nine clone - actual 49mm in 18350 mode.
Machining is excellent
Threading is smooth as can be
Switch never acts up
It performs every bit as good as it looks.
With a few review rebates, I paid under $3 shipping included.

 

[Wraith504]

If I could afford authentic I would buy those, but I cant so I buy clones. I have had no major issues with any of them as of yet. On occasion a gimpy o ring or maybe a post that rotates a hair, sometimes somethings need a little sanding. But they all seem to perform fine after a little fine tuning.

 

[dr g]

The questions is not whether you would notice anything but whether you want to reward innovation and originality, or reward infringement and third world economics.

 

[Wraith504]

The questions is not whether you would notice anything but whether you want to reward innovation and originality, or reward infringement and third world economics.

What about MCV clonin a flashlight to make their panzer. "Original Innovation" can be hypocritical in some cases.

 

[stvan1]

I finally got to a local shop today that I haven't been to yet. They have only been in business for 3-4 months. I was very surprised to see the same young man that got me started using mech and Kayfuns behind the counter. Worked with me on building my first coils etc. Anyway he handles all the real deal mods etc (he does have the kayfun clones though). No in house juice all top brands (five pawns, ruthless etc).
So I saw and handled some awesome mods and may someday buy one or two (4nine was nice and an Akula I think it was) but I don't need anymore, I have found REOs and thoroughly enjoy them.
My point is that it is great to have a place that actually carries authentic stuff and it is priced competetively too. Expensive but in line with internet dealers. Oh yeah there is a difference, butter smooth threads, no visible seams, cosmetics and a little technology (like no 510 connections direct battery to atty).

 

[dr g]

What about MCV clonin a flashlight to make their panzer. "Original Innovation" can be hypocritical in some cases.

You don't seem to understand what cloning means ... Though a Philippine company borrowing design from a Chinese product isn't the kind of issue we're talking about regardless. If China had any kind of respect for IP there might be something to do about it, but they don't.

 

[Wraith504]

You don't seem to understand what cloning means ... Though a Philippine company borrowing design from a Chinese product isn't the kind of issue we're talking about regardless. If China had any kind of respect for IP there might be something to do about it, but they don't.

It certainly is not an original design. So IMO its a clone.

 

[dr g]

It certainly is not an original design. So IMO its a clone.

Completely off-base, appropriating design is not the same as cloning. A clone is a copy of a certain product with the intention to compete on price with that product and capitalize on its name recognition and existing demand.

A PV cannot capitalize on a flashlight in that way. It's not a completely ethical behavior but it is not cloning or even close to it, as it cannot take sales away from the original product.

 

[Wraith504]

Completely off-base, appropriating design is not the same as cloning. A clone is a copy of a certain product with the intention to compete on price with that product and capitalize on its name recognition and existing demand.

A PV cannot capitalize on a flashlight in that way. It's not a completely ethical behavior but it is not cloning or even close to it, as it cannot take sales away from the original product.

I can agree with that if you can agree that there is a lack of originality and innovation.

 

[dr g]

I can agree with that if you can agree that there is a lack of originality and innovation.

Innovation, no. They are two different devices for different purposes. The PV cannot be considered to be less innovative because of the existence of the flashlight, in fact the appropriation of the design for a different use is innovative in itself. Innovation is not limited to designs and concepts that have never existed before.

The idea that it lacks originality is also unclear. It sort of depends how much value is placed upon the body design of the flashlight by the producer. China really has no protections on that so Chinese products don't typically ride that much on visual design. There is a case to be made that the design is simply a generic flashlight-looking milling pattern. In any event there's a good chance it is used for expediency more than anything else.

 

[nynvolt]

If authentic mods were priced correctly there would not be clones. I can buy a precisely machined firearm for $500. More parts, better tolerances, far more r&d and huge liability premiums. Why does a battery tube cost $200? My colt m4 was $1200.00, which I thought was high, I could only buy 5-6 battery tubes for the same money. Seems a bit ridiculous when put in perspective. However, I am a sucker for shiny, neat things so I do own an authentic

 

[imsoenthused]

I like supporting local business, and to a lesser degree American business, but I won't be buying any original mechanical mods because I don't believe the quality difference is consistent with the cost difference. If I can get a high quality counterfeit(I think the term clone is sophistry) for 1/10 the cost of the original then I think the original manufacturer is grotesquely exagerating their price. Basically, if I can get it from China for $20 then I would gladly pay a reasonable premium for the original, but for 5 to 10 times that price or more I expect them to take me out to dinner and a movie before they .... me, intellectual property or no. If that makes me a bad person so be it, I think they're bad people for setting those prices.

 

[Funk Dracula]

I am in the market for a manhattan. It seems almost near impossible to find an authentic color one so I have decided to go with copper.

I want to know is there a difference between the manhattan clones they have out and is it really even going to be noticeable. I don't want to pay an extra $200 if I am not going to notice the difference.

Thanks in advance.

Do not give Ameravape your money. If there ever was a clone to not feel guilty about, it's the F'ing Manhattan.

The first batch of clones that came out, were in fact the exact same mod, that came off of the exact same CNC machine as the original. It was just the stockpile of mods Ameravape left the machining company being stuck with, because Ameravape couldn't flip the bill, or found someone cheaper to make them and bailed like deadbeats. They went for something like $60 bucks on Ebay so the machinist could just get rid of them and recover losses. (which gives us a rare realistic figure to reference regarding the actual cost of manufacturing an American made "tube")

So, when Ameravape initially threw a hissy fit and went on a smear campaign with clone vs authentic Manhattans, posting pictures of blown up hands on Instagram and whatnot, they were in fact smearing their very own "authentic" mod.

$240 "authentic" vs $60 "clone." Granted, the original clones were at cost for loss recovery, but still...

Not to mention, the way Ameravape handled the whole "venting" controversy will go down as one of the most idiotic and disrespectful behaviors the vaping community will ever witness from a company; that is if you don't think labeling a $240 tube a "competition mod" isn't idiotic and disrespectful in the first place.

Ameravape is literally full of it... a lot of things came to light regarding mechanicals in general with the Manhattan story IMO.

It's crazy to see newer vapers seek out an authentic version of this mod... what a shame.

 

[dr g]

If authentic mods were priced correctly there would not be clones. I can buy a precisely machined firearm for $500. More parts, better tolerances, far more r&d and huge liability premiums. Why does a battery tube cost $200? My colt m4 was $1200.00, which I thought was high, I could only buy 5-6 battery tubes for the same money. Seems a bit ridiculous when put in perspective. However, I am a sucker for shiny, neat things so I do own an authentic

What do you consider "priced correctly"? Western made mods will always price out higher due to the higher costs of labor and running a business -- these make up the majority of the cost of making a mod. In a larger, more expensive item, such as a rifle, labor is a lower proportion of the cost. Then there are economies of scale, plus effective taxpayer subsidy for any company that is supplying arms under government contracts. And some might argue whether any $500 firearm is "precisely machined."

Be careful not to equate China market prices with fair market prices. They are not. Buying Chinese copies instead of US products sends our economy overseas, bit by bit.

 

[Asbestos4004]

To the op....look into the Doomsday Mod by Intergalactic Industries. I own several authentic mods and several clones. I'm not going to get into the clone vs authentic debate. Its been done to death and both sides have legitimate points. To date, nobody has ever won the argument.
The Doomsday is an authentic that retails for around $120. The machining and quality are as good or better than any other mod I own. Performance wise, all contacts are solid copper and the body is a dedicated 18650 tube....no seams. Switch is flawless and voltage drop is extremely low. The company seems to be made up of some pretty decent folks . Way better than supporting that clown outfit who makes the Manhattan.

 

[nynvolt]

What do you consider "priced correctly"? Western made mods will always price out higher due to the higher costs of labor and running a business -- these make up the majority of the cost of making a mod. In a larger, more expensive item, such as a rifle, labor is a lower proportion of the cost. Then there are economies of scale, plus effective taxpayer subsidy for any company that is supplying arms under government contracts. And some might argue whether any $500 firearm is "precisely machined."

Be careful not to equate China market prices with fair market prices. They are not. Buying Chinese copies instead of US products sends our economy overseas, bit by bit.

Do you think it's odd that 90% of high end tubes cost $190-$220? You mean to tell me that somehow Filipino, American, Greek, German or whatever country has the exact production cost? No, it's the market price. A Filipino mod should be a fraction of the cost of an American made mod, German should be just a bit higher cost than American made, depending on exchange rate.

It's a metal tube. If the Chinese can replicate exact counterfeit metal tubes for $20 retail, then $200 metal tubes are not correctly priced.

The sending money overseas argument is weak. People will fight for unions and $15/hr minimum wage then complain because manufacturers are forced to move to third world countries because they cannot complete. It's way more complicated than the buy American moniker.