Cloud chasing Help!

[Jsav27]

Hey guys,
SO i am new to cloud chasing. i usually just used a VW and have been good. Recently i picked up a able and a goon. My build is reading at .25 ohms, and the battery im using is a LG 3200mah. It has been ok so far but i noticed when i through the goon on my VW, running it at 60watts, its pumping out so much more vaper than the able.... I didnt think it was suppose to be that way. Am i missing something here? My able has the Hybrid top on it. If im not mistaking my able should be able to rock it with vapor production. I dont understand.

 

[Ed_C]

What LG is that? I don't think there's any LG 3200mah 18650 batteries rated for over 7-10 amp.

 

[Ed_C]

You might want to read:
Be careful when using high-capacity 18650 batteries! | E-Cigarette Forum
LG MH1 10A 3200mAh 18650 Bench Test Results...safe at 10A but suffers damage

 

[Jsav27]

sorry there 3000 mah 3,7V, looks like there 20amps

 

[Jsav27]

I did like 7 or 8 wraps, maybe if i do a 5 wrap 22g it might ramp up the coil faster? and hotter?
heck idk anymore lol

 

[Ed_C]

sorry there 3000 mah 3,7V, looks like there 20amps

That's better.

As for your issue, I don't have much for you as I don't use mechs. But, at 0.25 ohm you should be putting out about 70 watts with a fresh battery and then dropping down as the battery discharges to about 40 watts @ 3.2V. So, I'd think you should be in the same ballpark with both. Is this a new battery?

 

[Jsav27]

Yea i picked up one new battery when i first got the able, than when i grabbed a second one cuase my other batteries werent doing crap lol

 

[IMFire3605]

Many things play into account.

1) The RDA plays a heavy part due to various factors, and the list begins
2) Airflow - tighter airflow = more flavor, looser airflow = clouds
3) Chamber Design - larger the chamber allowing air and vapor to vortex and mix better and without restriction = more clouds
4) Mouth piece - like airflow above tighter mouthpiece = flavor, larger looser mouth piece = clouds
5) Build type/wire type - more surface area of wire to wick and wire to liquid contact to vaporize more liquid = more liquid vaporized is more vapor produced

Balancing those 5 major factors and how to optimize them together = bigger clouds or more flavor however you decide to go.

Be safe out there if on a mechanical
20amp CDR battery = lowest build between 0.3 to 0.45
30amp CDR battery = lowest build between 0.2 to 0.35

 

[NealBJr]

Hey guys,
SO i am new to cloud chasing. i usually just used a VW and have been good. Recently i picked up a able and a goon. My build is reading at .25 ohms, and the battery im using is a LG 3200mah. It has been ok so far but i noticed when i through the goon on my VW, running it at 60watts, its pumping out so much more vaper than the able.... I didnt think it was suppose to be that way. Am i missing something here? My able has the Hybrid top on it. If im not mistaking my able should be able to rock it with vapor production. I dont understand.

Ok, First is it a single or dual battery Able?
how many batteries in the VW?

Now you might want to take a visit to Ohms Law Calculator to see what's going on. Since you gave a fairly Vague specs, I'll start to explain a bit.

Let's say you have a single battery Able, and a .25 ohm build. Lithium Ion batteries when first charged run at 4.2 volts. If I plug in .25 ohms and 4.2 volts into ohms law calculator you SHOULD be running at 70.8 watts, and using 16.8 amps.. which is close to your battery's maximum. Now those are perfect conditions, and mechanicals are never perfect. There is always some voltage loss in mechanicals, so you're loosing some power depending on the mod you have. Also, as the batteries drain, the voltage of the battery will go down as you vape. The 4.2 volts usually doesn't last very long. Let's say after a few drags, you're running at 4 volts. now you're running at 64 watts.... which is about equal to your VW device. After a few minutes of vaping, your battery goes down to 3.75 volts.. which they usually semi-plateu for a while at... then you're running at 56 watts for optimal, probably 50ish watts including voltage drop of the mod. You can check out how the LG HG2 battery performs over a certain time and see how fast the voltage goes down. Take a look at Battery Bro's review, and look at their graph about halfway down, you'll see this:

As you can see, on the left, it starts at the standard 4.2 volts, but drops almost immediately down to 3.95 volts within like a minute or two of their 1 hour test. That's typical of Lithium Ion batteries. After that, it slowly starts to decline at a steady rate until it reaches it's recommended minimum charge of 3.35 volts about 53 minutes of their test. If you had your atomizer on, and you were at the minimum, you'd be at roughly 44.9 watts optimal, but probably more like 35-40ish watts realistically.

This is assuming the HG2 is your battery, and you have a single battery mod.

That is why nowadays, most people prefer regulated mods for every day use. It maintains a particular wattage for as long as it can. For 60 watts, I'd suggest getting a dual battery regulated mod for both consistency of the vape and battery life. I occasionally use mechanicals, but it's rare. Usually I use a dual battery Cuboid or a tri battery Releaux RX200.

I have been keeping an eye out and might someday get a cloned dual battery Able mod, but I don't recommend that for most users. Dual battery mechanicals add some danger to the equation that most people should't be messing with. But if I used a .25 ohm build in that mod, I'd be vaping at 207.36 watts for starting, and about 180 watts towards the end of the battery cycle probably Figuring an extremely modest %10 voltage drop, It's still pretty high and something I usually vape at, and still well beyond the danger threshold.

 

[Jsav27]

I have a sx mini single battery and the able is also a single battery. I know this sounds odd but when I put the goon and the sx mini at 60 watts with a new battery it's hits pretty hard. The able literally feels like I'm vaping at 30watts on the sx mini. It's the oddest thing and I can't really figure it out. I literally dry out the wick on the sx mini in like two maybe three drags, putting rda on the able I can talk about ten hits before adding more juice. I just thought a mec with hybrid top should be hitting a lot harder than the VW. There's a lot more ramp up time on the able and doesn't hit well for me. Also I understand airflow and flavor and cloud differences, and have tested different air flow things on it, but the mec just isn't popping and producing what I thought it would. I'll have to keep messing with it, maybe I'll try a five wrap parrallel build in it and see how that does.... I just feel like it's not getting the power really. Right now I have a dual coil like 7-8 wrap.

Ok, First is it a single or dual battery Able?
how many batteries in the VW?

Now you might want to take a visit to Ohms Law Calculator to see what's going on. Since you gave a fairly Vague specs, I'll start to explain a bit.

Let's say you have a single battery Able, and a .25 ohm build. Lithium Ion batteries when first charged run at 4.2 volts. If I plug in .25 ohms and 4.2 volts into ohms law calculator you SHOULD be running at 70.8 watts, and using 16.8 amps.. which is close to your battery's maximum. Now those are perfect conditions, and mechanicals are never perfect. There is always some voltage loss in mechanicals, so you're loosing some power depending on the mod you have. Also, as the batteries drain, the voltage of the battery will go down as you vape. The 4.2 volts usually doesn't last very long. Let's say after a few drags, you're running at 4 volts. now you're running at 64 watts.... which is about equal to your VW device. After a few minutes of vaping, your battery goes down to 3.75 volts.. which they usually semi-plateu for a while at... then you're running at 56 watts for optimal, probably 50ish watts including voltage drop of the mod. You can check out how the LG HG2 battery performs over a certain time and see how fast the voltage goes down. Take a look at Battery Bro's review, and look at their graph about halfway down, you'll see this:

As you can see, on the left, it starts at the standard 4.2 volts, but drops almost immediately down to 3.95 volts within like a minute or two of their 1 hour test. That's typical of Lithium Ion batteries. After that, it slowly starts to decline at a steady rate until it reaches it's recommended minimum charge of 3.35 volts about 53 minutes of their test. If you had your atomizer on, and you were at the minimum, you'd be at roughly 44.9 watts optimal, but probably more like 35-40ish watts realistically.

This is assuming the HG2 is your battery, and you have a single battery mod.

That is why nowadays, most people prefer regulated mods for every day use. It maintains a particular wattage for as long as it can. For 60 watts, I'd suggest getting a dual battery regulated mod for both consistency of the vape and battery life. I occasionally use mechanicals, but it's rare. Usually I use a dual battery Cuboid or a tri battery Releaux RX200.

I have been keeping an eye out and might someday get a cloned dual battery Able mod, but I don't recommend that for most users. Dual battery mechanicals add some danger to the equation that most people should't be messing with. But if I used a .25 ohm build in that mod, I'd be vaping at 207.36 watts for starting, and about 180 watts towards the end of the battery cycle probably Figuring an extremely modest %10 voltage drop, It's still pretty high and something I usually vape at, and still well beyond the danger threshold.

 

[BackDoc]

I'd put down the mec mods until your knowledge base increases ( especially a hybrid) I own upwards of 300 mec mods and some of them hybrids, and have been at this 8 years and I'm still over cautious with mec mods....... forget the" cloud chasing for a bit until you learn more about vaping ....ECF is the place to learn, start searching the forum and read for a while instead of posting and you'll gain a wealth of knowledge.....and not blow your face off

 

[Jsav27]

I appreciate your concern, but I do know somethings about vaping and know how to not blow my face off. I'm no master at vaping or anything but I have been building for a few years now and will continue to experiment, build and learn.

 

[daviedog]

Ref,,post #5,, as you lower wire gauge the ramp up is slower. All things remaining equal.
If you want to experiment with different builds you should learn about heat flux. Steamengine.
Been vaping 6 yrs, 100 or so mechs. Fear factor always there. Especially after a lil sour mash..

 

[Jsav27]

Ref,,post #5,, as you lower wire gauge the ramp up is slower. All things remaining equal.
If you want to experiment with different builds you should learn about heat flux. Steamengine.
Been vaping 6 yrs, 100 or so mechs. Fear factor always there. Especially after a lil sour mash..

Yea I inderstand the ramp up time, I don't know I guess my expectations were higher for mec mods, I assumed with a staright hybrid connection the ramp up time would be the same if not faster with a mec than with the sx mini. Thanks for all the help guys, I am very cautious when buildin and testing things. You won't hear about me on the news

 

[daviedog]

I have each sx mini,,S,M,J,Q.
Absolutely awsome mods, hard to top.
You have to ease into you mech, builds will have to be tweaked. I don't AB the mods in both hands.
As an aside, the Goon is a superior dripper..

 

[NealBJr]

I have a sx mini single battery and the able is also a single battery. I know this sounds odd but when I put the goon and the sx mini at 60 watts with a new battery it's hits pretty hard. The able literally feels like I'm vaping at 30watts on the sx mini. It's the oddest thing and I can't really figure it out. I literally dry out the wick on the sx mini in like two maybe three drags, putting rda on the able I can talk about ten hits before adding more juice. I just thought a mec with hybrid top should be hitting a lot harder than the VW. There's a lot more ramp up time on the able and doesn't hit well for me. Also I understand airflow and flavor and cloud differences, and have tested different air flow things on it, but the mec just isn't popping and producing what I thought it would. I'll have to keep messing with it, maybe I'll try a five wrap parrallel build in it and see how that does.... I just feel like it's not getting the power really. Right now I have a dual coil like 7-8 wrap.

As I said earlier, it's probably a voltage drop of the mech combined with battery sag producing less power than a regulated mod.. Running a regulated mod at 60 watts gives out about as much power as a fully charged battery. with no voltage drop.

One last thing to check... mechanical mods need constant cleaning. clean ALL contacts, take apart the button and clean all of those. Make sure there's no oxidation on the contacts or threads. Any copper or brass should be bright and shiny. There should be no burrs on any of the contacts either.. it should be a flat surface. make sure the button doesn't get warm. And as always, make sure your battery is in top notch condition.

The only way to fully check it is to put an inline voltmeter on the connection between your mod and atomizer to see what the atomizers getting. try it on both the mechanical and the SX mini to see what power the atomizer is getting.

Most people nowadays use regulated devices as their main vaping devices because they're just much simpler to work with. back in the days, regulated devices didn't provide enough power to match what a mechanical can do. with todays regulated mods, the reverse is true.... mechanicals just cant consistently provide the same power as a regulated device.... consistently being the key word. For cloud chasing, get yourself a good 200w device.. it should provide you with more power than most people will ever need.

 

[Continuity]

I don't know why you're under the impression that a (hybrid) mech should ramp up faster and 'hit harder' than a regulated mod - I think you might have been listening to some cloudzbro types...

 

[IMFire3605]

@Jsav27
Pre-2014 era, Mech stomped on regulated for cloud production
Post-2014 era, Regulated stomps a Mech every time when above 40 to 50watts consistently

Reasons
Wire guage - thicker the wire, harder it is to heat up to proper heatflux. Mech pushes this through raw amps, right build with these thicker wires a mech can light a coil up instantly, but if the coil is large with these wires takes for ever for the mech to ramp that metal up to heatflux. Regulated mods, hit the fire button, mod reads your resistance, checks set wattage, calculates needed voltage, and fires at that needed voltage keeping that signal steady everytime you fire no matter the charge in the battery and mod voltage drop is almost nill compared to a mech. Give an analogy here, Mech = a freight train, takes them a while to get up to speed, even a Japanese Bullet train, regulated mod = more to an analogy of that same Bullet Train on tracks made for creating a Gauss Rifle (railgun) (0 to 100 in several minutes with a regular Bullet Train (mech), 0 to 100 in seconds with a gauss rifle (regulated))

0.25ohm coil on a mech
4.2v (fresh charge)/0.25ohms=16.8 amps and 70.56watts, but that is not taking into account the resistance of the mod which drops the full voltage down, and it only happens right off a fresh charge, after first firing the battery is down to about 4.0 to 4.1v and continues to decrease thus the wattage continues to decrease.
60watts, same 0.25ohm coil on a regulated mod is 60watts with very little voltage drop, and it is consistent

Mech=an Apple
Regulated = an Orange
^--Right there is basically what it breaks down to, two entirely different vaping camps (apples or oranges), two different vaping worlds.

 

[Jsav27]

Alright guys, so I just did a new build with only 4 or 5 wraps(can't remember now) and it's much more my of what I like, better flavor, warm and good vape production. This is the build I'll stick with for now thanks for all the info!

 

[NealBJr]

Alright guys, so I just did a new build with only 4 or 5 wraps(can't remember now) and it's much more my of what I like, better flavor, warm and good vape production. This is the build I'll stick with for now thanks for all the info!

...and the ohms and battery?? I didn't hit "like" because if you go too low, you'll over stress the battery and lead to possible venting. If you did a new build with lower ohms than your .25 ohm, you risk the battery venting, and possibly bodily harm.