Companies Monopolising E-cigs ......

[Perfectionist]

Have been reading with great amusement (and a tinge of despair) the “drama” caused by the new Edition2 Cartos and the American firm Vapor4Life ......

What intrigued me far more than the success/failings of the new cartomiser design and of course the inevitable politics of how/why the entire deal turned (bitterly!) sour ...... was the depressing fact that V4L actually pursued and then gained “exclusive rights” on the 808's for the entire US of A !!

This would have meant that American Vapers could only buy from one source – and that every other American Vendor would've been totally cut out and prevented from offering these new 808's to their customers ......

WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any Company putting a stranglehold on new products and innovations is detrimental to the interests of Vapers and vaping as a whole !!

There is a huge difference between branding a product as your own, and literally manipulating and restricting it's supply ......

Consumers are much better served if we have the ability to buy from whomever we please ...... it stops a small number of Companies controlling any given market and eventually setting prices as high as they want, and offering a level of service as low as they like ......

Not to mention the fact that removing any real Consumer Choice can devastate an industry by wiping out many of the other Vendors who cannot offer the latest and greatest ......

In short “exclusive agreements” completely go against the notion of free-trade and eventually create nasty and overwhelming Monopolies (the sorely negative effects of which can be seen widely in many other industries!)

Naturally this kind of stuff is common practice in Big Business – it locks in huge profits by totally killing off the competition and creating a captive market who are at their mercy ...... basically the greedy Corporation wins and everybody else loses ...... an often quoted phrase when talking about the dastardly Tobacco and Pharmaceutical industries !!

What I found truly fascinating was that nobody seemed in the slightest bit concerned about V4L doing/attempting this - it was just casually accepted without even raising an eyebrow !! Instead everyone was falling in line, ready to open their wallets on command without thought or question ...... almost like trained robots (consumer-bots?) following a scheduled program as directed ......

vaping is already a market worth Millions – it will eventually be worth Billions, and from what I can tell, it seems we may well be carelessly sleep-walking in to (slowly but surely) replacing a handful of large and greedy Tobacco/Pharma Companies, with a handful of large and greedy E-cig Companies ......

Quite sad really .....................


PS : For next weeks entertainment/sermon, I shall be profusely pontificating about the common (yet highly illegal!) practice of "price-fixing" ......

 

[cozzicon]

This didn't disturb me at all.

The exclusive agreement would have opened up competition because 99.9 percent of the reseller market would be without the particular product- which is pretty good motivation for a competing manufacturer to sell a competing solution to the rest of the market (good).

Second, since the new cartomizers were apparently not what was *expected*- th exclusivity was dropped (good).

Either way the market would have dealt with the issue.

 

[bornagainst]

Agreed.

Most people worry about things like...I don't know...food, shelter, those kind of things.

Pointless ramble if you ask me.

 

[txtumbleweed]

I agree with you. I didn't like the deal either.

 

[Kimmy]

sigh.........

 

[trailblazer6]

Perfectionist you are wrong to think we American consumers are asleep. Now I can not speak for all but in my case, I just did not care. V4L has nothing I wish to purchase anyway.
Cozzicon , Right on ! I agree with you and see it already happening in this industry with the 510 LR Atty's.

 

[ChuckB]

I don't think it was that bad an issue. V4L didn't block the whole product line, just one flavor of them. In the long run what they did may have been better for the market as it got a lot of attention drawn to the product. If it wasn't for that, who knows but the 510 and M40X versions may have just fizzled out and went away.

Every time something new comes out soon after there are knockoffs that are just slightly different. Look at all the different flavors of the eGo, VGo, Riva, etc. I'm sure something similar will happen with these too, and I'm actually looking forward to that because I do want the choices.

 

[Firefly13]

Oh come on... it's China... they would have been cloned and sold elsewhere cheaper if they were any good.

 

[juicefreak]

Vaping is already a market worth Millions – it will eventually be worth Billions, and from what I can tell, it seems we may well be carelessly sleep-walking in to (slowly but surely) replacing a handful of large and greedy Tobacco/Pharma Companies, with a handful of large and greedy E-cig Companies ......

Quite sad really .....................

PS : For next weeks entertainment/sermon, I shall be profusely pontificating about the common (yet highly illegal!) practice of "price-fixing" ......

love it! good rant. +1000

 

[tinstar15]

I wouldn't worry too much about anything coming out of China being "exclusive" for very long. China doesn't have much of a track record for caring about copyrights or patent infringement.

 

[PaulCincy]

Ditto to above...Just wishing more U.S./Canadian/European companies would step up and start investing in their own PVs......supply and demand....says it all....enjoy

 

[Drozd]

yeah I gotta say that the whole exclusive deal didn't bother me much because well it was only on the one model...if I really wanted them badly I could have just gotten them via another overseas vendor (I absolutely will not buy anything from V4L, ever(made that mistake once))...and any new model they would have ignored the exclusivity or wanted a new exclusive contract... and even then the copies and clones would have started...
A good example was the eGo....janty designed it and released joye to sell it OEM...so then TW had it too...then we started seeing some other sites having them with a no sell to the US clause...and then that clause disappeared and the 10s of copies and like devices showed up too...riva, hello, trex, max, animus, vgo, diferent v-go, elegant.....couple of others...

I don't think it'd have affected users at all....but I'm glad it got dropped...cuz now we're seeing some improvements to them quickly instead of seeing mediocre to borderline crap products with slow product advancement

 

[keyzygirl]

I think whoever has the money to get the exclusive deal gets it.Just like every other business.Its about money and profits.Cant blame anyone for trying to make money.

 

[Perfectionist]

This didn't disturb me at all.

The exclusive agreement would have opened up competition because 99.9 percent of the reseller market would be without the particular product- which is pretty good motivation for a competing manufacturer to sell a competing solution to the rest of the market (good).

Second, since the new cartomizers were apparently not what was *expected*- th exclusivity was dropped (good).

So you think it was good that there was an exclusive agreement - yet also think it was good that the exclusive agreement was broken ...... intriguing contradiction, I salute you sir !!

Seriously dude, are you saying that if there was no exclusive agreement, there would have been no competition ?? In essence, are you truly saying that monopolies are a good thing ?? I'm curious, have you ever had any formal education in Economics or Market Dynamics ??

Either way the market would have dealt with the issue.

The same way the market is dealing with Vaping - by slowly getting it banned ......

Agreed.

Most people worry about things like...I don't know...food, shelter, those kind of things.

Pointless ramble if you ask me.

Dude, ALL posts on any Internet Forum are inconsequential pixels on a screen, so intrinsically are "pointless rambles" ...... including yours

Perfectionist you are wrong to think we American consumers are asleep. Now I can not speak for all but in my case, I just did not care. V4L has nothing I wish to purchase anyway.
Cozzicon , Right on ! I agree with you and see it already happening in this industry with the 510 LR Atty's.

Sorry dude but I'm entirely correct ...... the fact you didn't care because it didn't affect you "right now" ...... shows just how short-sighted people are ...... Consumer Complacency is the reason why Corporations have become so powerful

 

[Perfectionist]

I don't think it was that bad an issue. V4L didn't block the whole product line, just one flavor of them. In the long run what they did may have been better for the market as it got a lot of attention drawn to the product. If it wasn't for that, who knows but the 510 and M40X versions may have just fizzled out and went away.

Every time something new comes out soon after there are knockoffs that are just slightly different. Look at all the different flavors of the eGo, VGo, Riva, etc. I'm sure something similar will happen with these too, and I'm actually looking forward to that because I do want the choices.

Oh come on... it's China... they would have been cloned and sold elsewhere cheaper if they were any good.

I wouldn't worry too much about anything coming out of China being "exclusive" for very long. China doesn't have much of a track record for caring about copyrights or patent infringement.

Ditto to above...Just wishing more U.S./Canadian/European companies would step up and start investing in their own PVs......supply and demand....says it all....enjoy

yeah I gotta say that the whole exclusive deal didn't bother me much because well it was only on the one model...if I really wanted them badly I could have just gotten them via another overseas vendor (I absolutely will not buy anything from V4L, ever(made that mistake once))...and any new model they would have ignored the exclusivity or wanted a new exclusive contract... and even then the copies and clones would have started...
A good example was the eGo....janty designed it and released joye to sell it OEM...so then TW had it too...then we started seeing some other sites having them with a no sell to the US clause...and then that clause disappeared and the 10s of copies and like devices showed up too...riva, hello, trex, max, animus, vgo, diferent v-go, elegant.....couple of others...

I don't think it'd have affected users at all....but I'm glad it got dropped...cuz now we're seeing some improvements to them quickly instead of seeing mediocre to borderline crap products with slow product advancement

Yup, I knew that would be the excuse !!

Yes, China will copy damn near anything and Yes, there were many other versions of the Edition2 etc - but that isn't the point ......

It's the principle that one company tried to corner the market - a mentality and behaviour that is identical to the Corporations that everybody derides and is so against ......

V4L could have done the right thing, by playing on an open and level field, and choosing to "compete" instead of "monopolise" ...... instead it pulled the tried and tested routine of using its muscle to squeeze everyone else out ...... this was great for V4L profits, but bad for Vapers and other Venders ......

This is the emergence of a very slippery slope folks ...... unfortunately, y'all aren't thinking long-term nor seeing the big picture ......

I think whoever has the money to get the exclusive deal gets it.Just like every other business.Its about money and profits.Cant blame anyone for trying to make money.

Guess you can't blame Government/Tobacco/Pharma for trying to get rid of E-cigs then ...... do you support that too babe ??

 

[Perfectionist]

I agree with you. I didn't like the deal either.

love it! good rant. +1000

Dang !! There are people who are awake after all !!

There is hope yet !! High Five My Brothers !!

 

[ChuckB]

I think the reason some of us view it a little differently is that we don't see the CE/2 cartos as a unique product, but a product similar to other cartos already on the market. If they had tried to corner the market on all cartos, yes, that would be a terrible thing, but they were just trying to grab one small part of the market.

Another way to look at it is like the laptop computer market. If you want a MacBook, you have to get it from an Apple dealer, but that isn't the only laptop out there. Toshiba and HP both make very good laptops too, but the are a little different. What Apple did by bringing out the MacBook was set the line on features a little higher, so that has pushed the other laptop manufacturers to add features to their laptops. Apple hasn't stopped everyone from selling laptops, they just control who sells their particular flavor of laptop.

Now I do like the new cartos, currently using one of the plastic cup ones and am waiting on the ceramics to ship, but I don't see them as a unique product. When the CE/2 cartos were announced, the older cartos didn't stop working or disappear. I see the new cartos as an improved product which is going to force the other manufacturers to step up their game if they want to compete. And that's what I'd like to see, improvements on the product and more choices.

If V4L had tried to get an exclusive on all versions of the new cartos and tried to stop vendors from selling all cartos except theirs, I would agree with you, that would be a very bad thing and people should be upset.

 

[D4rk50ul]

I guess I don't understand the problem here. The only way for a company to secure market share and separate itself from it's competition is by offering exclusive products. This happens in almost every type of business on the planet, and its not a monopoly. I think it was a smart business move and would have no problem with it whatsoever. If it was such a great product others would make their own version and progress in design would happen due to competition in the marketplace.


This is the web definition for Monopoly: (economics) a market in which there are many buyers but only one seller; "a monopoly on silver"; "when you have a monopoly you can ask any price you like"

If V4L had exclusive rights that made it impossible for anyone to sell ANY e-cig products in the USA, that would be a Monopoly. If they owned the rights to the atomizer therefore making it impossible for anyone else to construct an e-cig, that would be a Monopoly. I think having an exclusive cartomizer style, flavor, battery style, PCC, or even an exclusive product line is just a good business move.

 

[Nobodyatall]

This is the emergence of a very slippery slope folks ...... unfortunately, y'all aren't thinking long-term nor seeing the big picture ......

I suspect this isn't worth the time, but what the hey, I've some time to waste.

Companies work out exclusive deals all the time. The plan, at the inception at least, is that they both get some greater benefit from it. Supplier A gets a better unit price for the product, Distributor B gets exclusive marketing rights over that product and, presumably, some advantage over the competition. I see this on an almost daily basis.

It rarely seems to work out to the complete satisfaction of both parties. You see, there are always hidden factors and stipulations. The product may not actually be as good as A says it is, B may be restricted to solely marketing the newly discovered to be mediocre product and unable to rectify the situation by dropping the line, consumers may get cheesed off and stop buying from B, the competitors may come up with a superior mousetrap which B is prevented from obtaining by contractual agreement and loses market share as a result, etc., etc. The list of pitfalls is nearly endless.

All sorts of things can happen when 2 greedy parties team up in this way for "mutual benefit".

It's not illegal either unless they attempt to control the entire market and that's not what was attempted, apparently.

So why the seeming crusade? Do you have a beef with the operation of free markets? Some kind of government regulation to propose, perhaps? Maybe you just don't like V4L?

Forgive me for asking. It just seems a mountain made from a molehill and begs the questioning.

 

[piratecaptainbob]

(I absolutely will not buy anything from V4L, ever(made that mistake once))...

me either. ive had better experiences with cheap no name cartos than the v4l branded. so although i dont think this particular topic would have affected me i do like a good rant. 2 thumbs up!