Congratulations, you quit smoking and started vaping, if only that, counted for something...

[The Vagabond]

it is interesting to note that all the great success stories about former smokers who are now vaping (or quit smoking via vaping) don't count one bit to any agency that would ban, limit or otherwise regulate vaping. the collective good results are, in their mind, biased and unreliable, as factual results. But any one person that may claim to have had a negative effect, is added to the pot of proof they try to use to find reason against vaping.

Consider for a moment that it is estimated that the e-cigarettes business is a 2 billion dollar a year industry ... that's @ 41.66 million dollars a week. it would be conservative to estimate that there are a million vapers spending $166.64 a month. it wouldn't be a reach to think that there are 8 million vapers spending $41.66 a month. You'd think that with somewhere between 1 million to 8 million success stories about vaping, there might be a chance of finding factual proof that vaping saves lives....

I don't want to get off on a rant here, but ....
I'd certainly like to see any Dr, politician, or lobbyist, try to defend the difference between smoking tobacco products that have the universally accepted belief that it will kill the smoker, over vaping that has not killed anyone (places chip on shoulder, go ahead make my day). and don't count the suicidal sub ohmmer hooked up to a car battery. Certainly no one wants to hear about ANY deaths, but man up, people die. The real question is what are the facts. prove that vaping has killed anyone, contributed to their death or otherwise caused them harm, and how does that stand on global scale of things. Sure it may be a bit demanding to pile up the bodies, and count the ways, but hey I know of a few million healthy vapers that can now lend a hand, rather than be dead weight... (what too soon)

While currently no one has a nice study out to prove that its %100 safe, to make everyone feel all warm and fuzzy, when did that ever concern some of these people who want to control the world (or at least the part that surrounds their navel) these are the same people that are OK with more than 440,000 deaths annually from cigarette smoking 33,808 traffic related deaths and alcohol is the world’s third largest risk factor for premature mortality, disability and loss of health; it is the leading risk factor in the Western Pacific and the Americas and the second largest in Europe. Heck these are some of the same guys that would approve of you buying an engine screaming, gas petal stuck to the floor, Toyota. Kind of makes me glad I bought that used yugo.

Now I'm not contending that there are fundamental financial issues at hand, far be it from me to insinuate that there are many smoked filled rooms, lubricated with plenty of booze, campaign donations and other perks, wooing these decision makers. Hey after all they are just informing themselves on the specifics of vaping. After all tobacco, alcohol and the big pharmaceuticals, make for great hosts, and tobacco has played a major role in forming the USA and other countries.

Maybe the speaker of the house can shed light on this "
"Tobacco is a legal product in America," Boehner told CBS News. "The American people have a right to decide for themselves whether they want to partake or not. There are lots of things that we deal with and come in contact with every day, from alcohol to food to cigarettes, a lot of the things that aren't good for our health. But the American people ought to have the right to make those decisions on their own."
"Perhaps not surprisingly, Boehner also takes money from the tobacco lobby."

Maybe its time to make our voices heard..... no strike that, nobody wants to hear us... what if you scrawled across a dollar "vaping has saved this life" "please use this dollar to save another life" pop it in an envelope and send it off to the Whitehouse, nah that would be as good as sending it adrift in a bottle on the ocean. anyway 2 million to 166 million dollars with a plea on them, would make a ripple in the pond, that is now global politics ... hey here's a thought , take that scrawled upon dollar (you did do it didn't you?) and just use it to buy something, yep spend it..... heck while you have that sharpie or lipstick out scrawl CASAA.org or your favorite pro vaping group on that dollar too.

imagine the googling that will go on, there is where you can be noticed, there your money counts, there is the breath of health we can whisper to the world

The Vagabond

 

[Ryedan]

There are lots of things that we deal with and come in contact with every day, from alcohol to food to cigarettes, a lot of the things that aren't good for our health. But the American people ought to have the right to make those decisions on their own."

The right to make those decisions on their own as long as those decisions don't threaten big pharma's profits, is I think a bit more accurate.

 

[grayscale]

Well written and spoke. Are you a CASAA member?

 

[Robino1]

Another thing that would be nice for the powers that be to consider, there are many of us that HAVE managed to 'save' money. Yes I have saved over $1400....on paper. Realistically, that money has been spent on other things. I consider it my help to the economy . The less we spend on cigs does go back into the economy.

 

[The Vagabond]

Well written and spoke. Are you a CASAA member?

no not yet (formally anyways) but I do agree with what I have seen from them, but still researching

I do think one of two actions should be done by all vapers is do the dollar thing ..... and / or send a dollar to which ever pro vaping org you prefer - heck send them all a dollar , it is a cheap investment to say thank you for your current ability to vape.... don't think that we are collectively over the hump, but we are a very large underestimated community, and it time we let it be known

 

[Mike.S]

You live, you die. The rest is simply time.

 

[The Vagabond]

Another thing that would be nice for the powers that be to consider, there are many of us that HAVE managed to 'save' money. Yes I have saved over $1400....on paper. Realistically, that money has been spent on other things. I consider it my help to the economy . The less we spend on cigs does go back into the economy.

some might argue that you saved $1400 and spent it so effectively cancelling out any savings, but I have to agree with you. the portion of the money that would have otherwise gone to state or federal tax, certainly went on to help provide jobs and more. new goods orders, etc filtering down the chain of our economy. the remaining money that would have gone to fill the coffers of big tobacco is effectively denied them.

 

[Racehorse]

it is interesting to note that all the great success stories about former smokers who are now vaping (or quit smoking via vaping) don't count one bit to any agency that would ban, limit or otherwise regulate vaping.

Actually, your suggestion would be part of the problem. We do not want BP to designate ecigs as a smoking cessation device, then it would be NRT. (like patches and Chantix, and therefore under the FDA).

In actuality, ecigs are THR.

So be careful what you wish for.


You did read the courtcase Sottera, Inc. v. FDA, No. 10-5032, right?

Njoy argued in the case correctly, as a tobacco alternative for “smoking pleasure,” rather than for therapeutic uses. Otherwise you would probably not be vaping the way we are today.

 

[Ref Minor]

Consider for a moment that it is estimated that the e-cigarettes business is a 2 billion dollar a year industry ... that's @ 41.66 million dollars a week. it would be conservative to estimate that there are a million vapers spending $166.64 a month. it wouldn't be a reach to think that there are 166 million vapers spending $41.66 a month. You'd think that with somewhere between 1 million to 166 million success stories about vaping, there might be a chance of finding factual proof that vaping saves lives....

166m people spending 41.66 a month is 80 billion dollars a year, I think that might be a reach

4m spending 41.66 is the top level you are looking for. Although the majority of vapor use prefilled cartos and so probably spend more than 40 a month so it's more likely to be towards the middle of your range.

 

[The Vagabond]

166m people spending 41.66 a month is 80 billion dollars a year, I think that might be a reach

4m spending 41.66 is the top level you are looking for. Although the majority of vapor use prefilled cartos and so probably spend more than 40 a month so it's more likely to be towards the middle of your range.

I shouldn't rant without a calculator.....

 

[The Vagabond]

Actually, your suggestion would be part of the problem. We do not want BP to designate ecigs as a smoking cessation device, then it would be NRT. (like patches and Chantix, and therefore under the FDA).

In actuality, ecigs are THR.

So be careful what you wish for.


You did read the courtcase Sottera, Inc. v. FDA, No. 10-5032, right?

Njoy argued in the case correctly, as a tobacco alternative for “smoking pleasure,” rather than for therapeutic uses. Otherwise you would probably not be vaping the way we are today.

personally I'm not suggesting either, I do submit that the stories (of users experiences) suggest they freely chose to vape for a reason, what ever the reason. and that it is that body of experiences that should be at very least acknowledged, rather than tossed out with the bathwater. Me I had no intention of quitting, yet here I am with nearly two dozen vaping devices, a desk full of juice, that may not last through the year. yet next to my front door I pass by 4 packs of cigarettes that will never get smoked.... but hey its only been 6 months

You are correct that, unfortunately the current laws prevent anyone, despite their 1st amendment rights, to say, insinuate or otherwise convey, that these things could do you some good. (or anything that would put it in a more positive light, health wise)

 

[Robino1]

personally I'm not suggesting either, I do submit that the stories (of users experiences) suggest they freely chose to vape for a reason, what ever the reason. and that it is that body of experiences that should be at very least acknowledged, rather than tossed out with the bathwater. Me I had no intention of quitting, yet here I am with nearly two dozen vaping devices, a desk full of juice, that may not last through the year. yet next to my front door I pass by 4 packs of cigarettes that will never get smoked.... but hey its only been 6 months

You are correct that, unfortunately the current laws prevent anyone, despite their 1st amendment rights, to say, insinuate or otherwise convey, that these things could do you some good. (or anything that would put it in a more positive light, health wise)

Actually we, as consumers, CAN say that they are a smoking cessation device and that it worked for us to quit smoking. Vendors are prohibited from claiming that fact. If the ones selling ecigs make the claim that they help people quit smoking, the burden of proof falls on them to prove that fact.

WE can shout it loud and proud that ecigs HAVE made it possible to quit smoking AND it has bettered my health.

i Will make that claim to however many people I can tell.

 

[Criticalmass]

Our government is a failed entity. It exists to serve itself and corporate America and it has been this way for decades. In the last two decades it has sped up it's descent into tyranny. The patriot act was a huge loser for us as Americans and our freedoms.

So why don't we do anything about it when the entire system is broken and we have no voice anymore? Because we like shiny things and are provided with enough escapist-entertainment to be mollified. We are the modern day equivalent to Rome's mob and our Colosseum is every facet of our entertainment industry.

 

[K_Tech]

WE can shout it loud and proud that ecigs HAVE made it possible to quit smoking AND it has bettered my health.

i Will make that claim to however many people I can tell.

My lungs just gave you a standing ovation.

 

[Racehorse]

and that it is that body of experiences that should be at very least acknowledged, rather than tossed out with the bathwater.

I hate to be cynical, but i doubt very much anybody really cares about my personal experience, well, at least most of them don't.

I think they want to capitalize on it though.

It is a real horse race now, who will get all the vaping $$$.

When I sleuce it down to the most basic level, that's really what I see.

 

[spaceballsrules]

Another thing that would be nice for the powers that be to consider, there are many of us that HAVE managed to 'save' money. Yes I have saved over $1400....on paper. Realistically, that money has been spent on other things. I consider it my help to the economy . The less we spend on cigs does go back into the economy.

What you are not taking into account is how much revenue is lost from the taxation of the cigarettes you are not smoking. Just one more reason that the FDA wants ecigs solely in the hands of Big Tobacco, which is part of their upcoming proposal.

All of the political and bureaucratic hate we are seeing is a product of crony capitalism. Too many of the "little guys" are making a living off of ecigs, and that hurts the bottom line of the big wigs and the companies they work or lobby for.

 

[Racehorse]

Just one more reason that the FDA wants ecigs solely in the hands of Big Tobacco, which is part of their upcoming proposal.

I'm not seeing it that way. FDA has already lost in court to BT. FDA prefers ecigs to be in hands of BP, that is there closest bed-fellow.

 

[The Vagabond]

I'm not seeing it that way. FDA has already lost in court to BT. FDA prefers ecigs to be in hands of BP, that is there closest bed-fellow.

I tend to agree that the FDA prefers BP, albeit they are (in my opinion) simply letting themselves be manipulated, due in part to the way they are "hamstrung" in many legislations . It if were truly only about food and drug safety.... their oversight over tobacco at best is a side show to the maneuvering of the CDC and other agencies, who have outright lied, presented reports that contradict their own posted data, and seemingly conspired to favor their preferred "champion" in this money grab. because make no mistake about this, the real battle is to garner the most money possible to fund these cash strapped agencies.

 

[spaceballsrules]

I'm not seeing it that way. FDA has already lost in court to BT. FDA prefers ecigs to be in hands of BP, that is there closest bed-fellow.

I am sorry you don't see it that way, but that IS exactly what the FDA is doing. Note the the title of this thread - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...op-fda-giving-e-cig-industry-big-tobacco.html

If the FDA can't ban ecigs for the sake of Big Pharma, then they will tax them through Big Tobacco.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

Awesome writeup Vagabond!

Have you seen my take on http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/465485-its-not-nicotine.html