Cores Keep Failing Early

[Misacek01]

Hi all,

three cores in a row now have failed on me, [what I think is] very early - after going through about 20 ml of liquid on each, or 3-4 days at my consumption. I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong (if anything). Hence, I'm giving below all the information I think *might* possibly be relevant; if you know the answer right away, feel free to TLDR.

By "failing" I mean the vapor starts tasting burnt and generally horrible, regardless of how much liquid there is in the tank or how low (within core recommended range) I set the power. Vapor volume doesn't seem to decrease, though. Waiting an arbitrary amount of time (tested up to ca. an hour) before next use does nothing.

They're all pre-built J Well BCS 0.2 Ohm kanthal Clapton cores. Recommended power is 35-65 W; I run them at 35-40 W. My device is a J Well Onyx single-battery box with a J Well DuplX atomizer. I run Sony VTC5A batteries. The cores in question were all bought from a local shop in a sealed 5-pack (the other two from that pack remain unused), i.e., they're probably all the same production batch. None of them looked particularly non-conforming (or fake) at first glance.

My liquid is a DIY mix, about 85% VG, steeped a minimum of 2-3 days, of the following composition (per 100 ml):

10 ml Revolute DIY Caramel flavor, 99% PG
20 ml 20 mg/ml nicotine booster, unflavored, local brand, 70% VG
30 drops* The Fuu ethylvanilline, concentrated, PG base
30 drops The Fuu ethylmaltol, concentrated, PG base
~70 ml 99% VG base, unflavored, nicotine-free, local brand

* "Drops" are drops of the size PG usually makes from the dripper tip on a 10 ml bottle such as ready-made liquids usually come in. I didn't estimate it myself, but I've seen 50 such drops equated to 1 ml.

The liquid is quite sweet, but not substantially more so than ready-made flavors. The caramel flavor is minimally sweet; hence, the ethylmaltol. The color is a light straw yellow, much lighter than many sweet-flavored ready-mades.

As regards my habits - I sometimes do fairly long continuous sessions (say, 20-30 minutes of more-or-less sustained puffing), but the atty never runs so hot you couldn't hold a hand to it. On the other hand, I almost always run with air intakes to full (at which point, airflow through the core itself is the bottleneck), and my pulls aren't all that long (2-3 seconds, usually).

Also, the atty is one of those all-metal models with only a narrow window near the top through which you can't see the core, so I have to estimate remaining liquid by tilting it horizontal (so that liquid level can be seen in the window). Since I can't see the core, I don't actually know how much liquid there needs to be for the wicking holes on the core to be fully submerged.

I do, however, try to always refill with quite a bit of liquid left; I certainly don't run it to the bottom. It's possible the holes may be partially dry at the low point, but I'd be surprised if it was more than half their area. Since I'm fairly new to this, I'm not sure how much partially-dry holes might affect core life.

I thoroughly pre-soak the cores before using them, and I get no dry hits either on first use or at any later point before the cores fail. When they fail, they usually do so fast (max 1-2 ml of liquid from first indication to FUBAR).

Well, that's about all I can think of that might be relevant (and a lot that probably isn't). Any thoughts will be much appreciated.

Best,
Mike

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Vaping a max VG sweet juice with more than 10% flavoring for 20-30 minutes at a time is going to foul your coils. You say about 20ml a day but you're probably using more than you think by chain vaping like that.

It takes roughly 20 gtt drops to make 1ml. The larger the quantity, the lower the drops-to-ml accuracy. So the 60 drops you list for the ethyls are close to 3ml. Add the caramel and you're at 13% flavor volume. At 20mg/ml nicotine, you're adding further to the gunk factor.

I'd say you're probably about average.

 

[Misacek01]

You say about 20ml a day

Actually, I mean 20 ml total before the coil fails. Sorry if that wasn't written clearly.

That is spread across 3-4 days, i.e., maybe 5 ml a day.

If it were 20 x (3 or 4) = 60 to 80 ml per coil, I'd consider that okay. 20 ml per coil, however, seems less than other people are reporting.

M.

 

[EverythingEvil]

Actually, I mean 20 ml total before the coil fails. Sorry if that wasn't written clearly.

That is spread across 3-4 days, i.e., maybe 5 ml a day.

If it were 20 x (3 or 4) = 60 to 80 ml per coil, I'd consider that okay. 20 ml per coil, however, seems less than other people are reporting.

M.

It does seem like you are getting way below normal usage out of your coils. However at the PG/VG ratio you are using its not really a big surprise, 85% VG is pretty damn high for a tank. Because of the thickness of the juice you are using, the wicking material cannot supply the coils enough juice to keep the wicking material from scorching. Id try reducing the amount of VG to around 50-60% and you should better life out of you coils. I generally get 10-14 days out of my coils vaping 10-15ml a day using 60/40.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

You mentioned burnt early on. I agree, not enough juice is getting to the coil and, so, the coil is burning what little juice it is getting. VG is thick and does not move through the wick to the coil as fast. Also, once a coil is burnt their is no fixing it. Even the juice in the tank is not going to have proper flavor.

I would re-mix with less VG. Also, if you made your own coils you would have better flexibility for such a high VG level.

Another thought is chain-vaping doesn't let the coil or juice cool enough to get the best flavor that your set-up allows.

Consider an RTA or RDA. Even many RTAs will have difficulty with such high VG, but they are out there. I am just not as familiar with them.

Good luck!

 

[Letitia]

Not familiar with your gear but I'm also thinking you may need to reduce malto and vg. I also recommend you start using syringes to measure your flavors with.

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Your atomizer needs both juice flow and airflow to keep it cool. If either are hampered, the coil will overheat.

A max VG juice will not flow as well as one made with even 20% or 30% PG.

Flavoring over 10% burns and gunks worse (color is not as important).

I think you need a thinner liquid, perhaps less power and a little lighter on the flavor concentrate.

 

[Mr. Relentless]

If your coils look black and nasty it's too sweet juice. If not you probably got some tight wrapped coils.

 

[stols001]

That does seem short for coil life however, as stated, you have a lot else going on.

My single biggest piece of advice is to not chain vape (unless in temperature mode) on one device. Even leaving the house, I will bring 3 mods with me. My coil life ALL improved once I stopped overheating the juice, made some changes to allow better wicking (for me it was 10% distilled water at first, I am PG sensitive, but am now using peg400 which is a PG variant.)

I couldn't believe how much of a difference addressing those two issues improved my coil life. Not even just spread ACROSS coils, but overall ALL my coils lasted longer as they weren't overheating.

Do you have a good priming process and what is it? Can you afford a few more setups to allow you to not chain vape and etc? It really is a coil killer along with everything else you have going on.

Best of luck,

Anna

 

[score69]

I would agree with everyone else's comments here about it being your juice composition.

If you can tolerate (I actually enjoy it) vaping unflavored juice (no sweeteners, nothing) for a few days, why not try it with your next coil head and see how long it lasts you? At least you'll know if was the juice.

 

[Misacek01]

Do you have a good priming process and what is it?

I cut the top off a 10 ml bottle and am using it as a soaking bath. I fill it with liquid enough to submerge the wicking holes, but not the contact pin and base thread, then drop the coil in for maybe 30 minutes. Once done, I dry off the pin and thread if they got wet, and lightly swab out the coil's central chimney with a rolled-up paper towel. Then I install the coil and start puffing. I get no dry hits and the flavor stabilizes very shortly.

Can you afford a few more setups to allow you to not chain vape and etc?

Weeeeell... Technically, I can, but buying equipment worth several hundred bucks just to save maybe half of, say, $30 worth of coils per month seems to have a pretty long payback period.

I do know, however, that overheated liquid gives worse taste, so there's an additional incentive besides money. Plus, I hear liquid consumption goes up if you don't let it cool off. (How does that happen, though? I'd think the "lost" liquid has nowhere to go but in your lungs, i.e., you should still get all its nicotine? I don't see the device smoking excessively on its own when not inhaled on, no matter how hot it is...)

Also, I've only been at this a few months; I'm not sure yet where my habits will stabilize, i.e., how much it is reasonable for me to invest. Also, the initial equipment expenses are fairly recent. My wallet's still smarting.

I could, I suppose, just buy a second atty. (I assume the grip can take prolonged use without much issue.) It'd be fussy to change them, but possibly manageable? I'm generally happy with the atty I've got now, and I got it fairly recently at a substantial discount (final price about $25) that I believe is still in effect - in which case getting a spare wouldn't be much of a problem.

Or, I could take the opportunity to, as someone above suggested, try out DIY coils. I've been thinking about it, but so far have been leery of the learning curve. (I'm relatively new to this whole thing, see above.) I took apart a few drop-ins (even fixed a short due to a torn base pin seal on one), and now am more confident about possibly building my own. Since I'm not running a mech (nor am I planning to), I think the risk of electrical accidents due to DIY coils should be minimal? I'd need a multimeter and some supplies, but I suppose I'd get a lot more versatility and non-trivial savings in return.

As it happens, the atty I have has a "special feature" wherein it can be converted to either RTA or RDA using a set of replacement parts. The one I have is the "light" version, meaning the conversion parts aren't included (i.e., it's drop-ins only). The parts only ship with the "full version", which I've seen locally for about $80 (no discounts right now, unfortunately). That's not pocket change, but it's also not a terrible expense. Plus, I already know and like the atty, and would get to choose between RTA, RDA, and drop-ins at leisure.

(...) unflavored juice (no sweeteners, nothing) for a few days, why not try it (...)

I never tried, but it's not a bad idea. As long as it has nicotine, that is. And knowing how the base tastes with no flavoring might help me improve my DIY flavors, too.

 

[score69]

Unflavored is the way to go.

I vape 70% VG, 3mg all day, every day.

If you kill a coil with 20ml of that, then you've got some cheap ... coils, lol.

I can usually get close to 500ml of juice through a SMOK or Kanger coil when vaping DL, unflavored. Typically about 4 weeks, sometimes 6.

 

[Opinionated]

I used to get 5-7 days at around 3ml per day consumption on sweet juices so you sound like your in the ballpark as your consumption is slightly higher.

Some people get more life out of their coils - I've heard some say they can get upwards of three weeks but of course type of flavorings and type of ejuice (higher pg versus higher vg) as well as brands of flavorings can all make a huge difference. .

I always cared more about vaping what was easily accessible and what I liked versus trying to hunt down juices that would give me long coil life ..

YMMV..

 

[Misacek01]

(...) what I liked versus trying to hunt down juices that would give me long coil life

Yeah, that would be my ideal, too.

I can deal with the fuss of changing coils; I mostly only care about my coil life issue because, if it were to be my norm, I'd be significantly better off financially with DIY coils. A drop-in sets me back some $5, so if I needed a new one every, say, 4 days, it'd be 7-8 coils per month, or $35-40. That's about twice as much as my current liquid costs me, which just seems a tad excessive.

I didn't do the math for DIY coils (I can get the material prices off the web, but, never having built one, I have a poor idea as to the consumption), but I guesstimate the costs per month would drop to maybe 20% of that. So, let's assume I'd be saving $25-30 per month, plus I'd get the superior flexibility of DIYs (meaning I could build them to better match the experience I like).

I think that's worth the bother of learning to do it, and the expense of the R(D/T)A and multimeter would pay itself back in fairly short order. And if my consumption increased in the future, so would my savings. (The other way around works too, obviously, but since I'm a fairly hardened nicotine addict, I don't see that as very likely.)

Like I said in a previous post, I'd been thinking about DIY coils anyway; it's just that, if the 20 ml / coil I get with the drop-ins is "normal" given my liquid and habits, it might be a good excuse to switch to DIY sooner rather than later.

M.

 

[Opinionated]

Yeah, that would be my ideal, too.

I can deal with the fuss of changing coils; I mostly only care about my coil life issue because, if it were to be my norm, I'd be significantly better off financially with DIY coils. A drop-in sets me back some $5, so if I needed a new one every, say, 4 days, it'd be 7-8 coils per month, or $35-40. That's about twice as much as my current liquid costs me, which just seems a tad excessive.

I didn't do the math for DIY coils (I can get the material prices off the web, but, never having built one, I have a poor idea as to the consumption), but I guesstimate the costs per month would drop to maybe 20% of that. So, let's assume I'd be saving $25-30 per month, plus I'd get the superior flexibility of DIYs (meaning I could build them to better match the experience I like).

I think that's worth the bother of learning to do it, and the expense of the R(D/T)A and multimeter would pay itself back in fairly short order. And if my consumption increased in the future, so would my savings. (The other way around works too, obviously, but since I'm a fairly hardened nicotine addict, I don't see that as very likely.)

Like I said in a previous post, I'd been thinking about DIY coils anyway; it's just that, if the 20 ml / coil I get with the drop-ins is "normal" given my liquid and habits, it might be a good excuse to switch to DIY sooner rather than later.

M.

I DIY'd the last year or so that I vaped. .

Resistance wire is 7.00 USD.. wicking material is about 20.00 although you can spend less, I spent 35.00 for a coil master coil building kit (which is a buy it once and your done) and I've never had to buy more wire or more wicking material yet.. literally that was a solid year of vaping...

It would go into another year or two except I've quit vaping.. (just a non smoker / non vaper these days)

You can spend more for sure if you pay other people to build fancy coils for you, or if you buy the equipment to build your own fancy coils, but basic is so cheap it's unreal.

 

[Misacek01]

basic is so cheap it's unreal

Yah, I just did a check on local wire and cotton prices and arrived at the same conclusion.

I compared wire price and length as sold to length estimates for a single coil from online calculators, and guessed at the same for cotton from pictures of packs and coils, and it seems even using "expensive" brand wire and cotton the cost is basically not worth talking about. I stopped counting it somewhere around a quarter per coil.

I knew before that costs for DIY were low, but I didn't realize they were that low.

Well, it's something to think about, for sure.

M.

 

[Opinionated]

Yah, I just did a check on local wire and cotton prices and arrived at the same conclusion.

I compared wire price and length as sold to length estimates for a single coil from online calculators, and guessed at the same for cotton from pictures of packs and coils, and it seems even using "expensive" brand wire and cotton the cost is basically not worth talking about. I stopped counting it somewhere around a quarter per coil.

I knew before that costs for DIY were low, but I didn't realize they were that low.

Well, it's something to think about, for sure.

M.

There is one thing people don't realize is that coils last. Most coils last anywhere from 2-6 months depending upon how you vape etc. It's the wick material that has to be changed.

Instead of building a new coil, all you do most the time is burn the gunk off your coil wire and brush it clean, let it cool and rewick...

You build coils out of boredom more than necessity.

The one expense after the initial set up cost really is wick. And like you said, you can use crazy expensive wick and not spend enough to speak of even then..