Critique my methodology...

[TDC123]

I put my actual questions in bold print so those who may potentially choose to answer a question for me may avoid reading this entire wall of text if they choose to.

So here is what I did to get started with DIY ejuice after ordering a ridiculous amount of various flavorings, syringes etc.

I combined...

473 ml (16 oz bottle) of Humco usp grade glycerine from the pharmacy.

44 ml of 9% saline ( the wound cleansing kind with no other ingredients)

44 ml of distilled water

That gave me 561 ml of pre mixed base that I would just treat as vg for the purpose of using one of the online calculators.

I quickly realized that dealing with 100 mg/ml for the purpose of mixing each single bottle of juice would be terribly tedious due to the need to handle it so carefully so I added...

38 ml of 100 ml/mg nicotine mixed in glycerine.

So I now have a mason jar on the ready with a premixed base of slightly over 6 mg/ml unless I am missing something. Please point out the error of my ways if I am miscalculating something.

Of course my nic level will drop once I add flavors to this premixed concocotion that I'm using as a base and I'm ok with it going down some. I just make my target nicotene level in that online calculator zero since I have it all premixed. I can probably fiddle with the calculator though a bit and get really close considerin that most of these bottles have some extra room.

So I took this concotion and mixed the following recipes according to instructions from the TFA recipe thread...

Sour Berry Blast
Andes Mints
JACE (I did not have apple so I substited "double Kiwi")
Fruity Fritz
Doublemint
Cherry Limeade

They all smell wonderful but the flavor is lacking in intensity with the Cherry Limeade and Sour Berry Blast. I thought fruit flavors didn't need much "steep time". Can I expect them to improve or should I start trying to add a bit more flavor to them now? The Andes Mints was decent enough right away. I could taste the chocolate and the mint fairly well. I'm still hoping it will improve with time though. I do like strong flavors. I have not sampled the others.

I have Kalua and Creme, cappucino, coffee, espresso. I would like to come up with a sweet and pleasant coffee inspired morning vape but have yet to find such a recipe. Can anyone help with that? Part of the problem is that I am avoiding all those flavors that potentially have those possibly dangereous "custard notes" but I do have all of the other possible "cream" flavors that aren't on the naughty list as well. As ridiculous as this sounds, there are few TFA flavors I do not have other than those known to potentially contain the dangerous ingredients.

I stick with the TFA stuff for simplicities sake but is there a brand of coconut flavoring made that does not have the possibly dangerous "custard notes"?

Thanks in advance,

TC

 

[stylemaster2001]

Wow, gotta admire your "eagerness"...but I would suggest slow down and enjoy the journey. I have no idea if you are in the states(US) why you would mix your glycerin, water and saline to get your base....VG is really cheap. (PG too) As far as your flavors don't taste quite right, I would suggest reading up on "steeping". If you have already, you KNOW your mixes aren't going to taste bang on right off the bat (possible, but rare) Sounds to me like you are trying to "short-cut" every which way you can, from mixing your base to cutting your nic to mixing your flavors. I don't know how you could come up with formulas. Have you tried the E-juice-me-up calculator??? You can plug in your percentages (no matter what--even 100mg/ml nic) and get the right amounts to use.

It just sounds like you've dove into the deep end of the pool instead of "easing" in. I could be wrong. But anyways, good luck and keep posting. I'm curious how it will all turn out!!!

--I worry when someone says its "too hard" or too much trouble to cut their 100mg nic into single bottles of flavor. I do, with a syringe, usually its between 5 and 10 ml of nic to "cut" mine down to 18mg. It's not really that hard, or inconvienent. You said you had the syringes, right....why not use them. Now you gotta remember how you have made your base, and why risk adding flavors and cutting the strength when you can just plug the numbers into a juice calc and get the right percentages instantly?


---and I apologize if I sound "preachy", but I've been a hairdresser for 20 years and mixing colors/bleach etc....to do people's hair. I was/am more interested in "doing it right" than doing it fast. I love making my own juices, experimenting, etc....but I always follow a formula, make notes on everything so I can "repeat" my successes and avoid my not so great mixes!!!

 

[TDC123]

Wow, gotta admire your "eagerness"...but I would suggest slow down and enjoy the journey. I have no idea if you are in the states(US) why you would mix your glycerin, water and saline to get your base....VG is really cheap. (PG too) As far as your flavors don't taste quite right, I would suggest reading up on "steeping". If you have already, you KNOW your mixes aren't going to taste bang on right off the bat (possible, but rare) Sounds to me like you are trying to "short-cut" every which way you can, from mixing your base to cutting your nic to mixing your flavors. I don't know how you could come up with formulas. Have you tried the E-juice-me-up calculator??? You can plug in your percentages (no matter what--even 100mg/ml nic) and get the right amounts to use.

It just sounds like you've dove into the deep end of the pool instead of "easing" in. I could be wrong. But anyways, good luck and keep posting. I'm curious how it will all turn out!!!

--I worry when someone says its "too hard" or too much trouble to cut their 100mg nic into single bottles of flavor. I do, with a syringe, usually its between 5 and 10 ml of nic to "cut" mine down to 18mg. It's not really that hard, or inconvienent. You said you had the syringes, right....why not use them. Now you gotta remember how you have made your base, and why risk adding flavors and cutting the strength when you can just plug the numbers into a juice calc and get the right percentages instantly?


---and I apologize if I sound "preachy", but I've been a hairdresser for 20 years and mixing colors/bleach etc....to do people's hair. I was/am more interested in "doing it right" than doing it fast. I love making my own juices, experimenting, etc....but I always follow a formula, make notes on everything so I can "repeat" my successes and avoid my not so great mixes!!!

Thanks for your comments and your advice.

I do use the online calculator. That's how I came up with the my base mix. I drip exclusively when at home and have been using 6 mg juices for a while now. Anything stronger and I can tell I'm getting too much nicotine. Even with the 6 mg I can catch myself overdoing it if I'm not careful. When I'm away from home and using one of my tanks systems I do not notice a need or desire for a greater nicotine content.

I add the saline solution because it supposedly helps carry the flavor. I have zero firsthand experience with that though. It's just something I've read several times here in the forum.

I use the distilled water because it supposedly helps with the drying out of the mucus membranes. While nothing severe I have experienced the dry mouth/throat and even some dehydration from vaping. Before I made my bae this way I ordered some juices of various types, from high pg ratios to 100% vg to 70% vg with 30% distilled water. I liked the latter the best and did appreciate the water present in the eliquid. It works well in my devices and doesn't gunk up my coils as quickly as the straight vg does. I found out quickly that I don't care for pg in my vape.

I'm in the US. I know the glycerin and pg are cheap. Mixing it this way has less to do with cost or even efficiency than it does with reducing risk. For me personally, I would rather handle something with as much potential for a dangerous mishap as 100mg/ml nicotine does have as infrequently as possible. I'm perfectly content with 6 mg and it won't be hard even with this premix to account for that and still produce an eliquid with the 6 mg that I'm used to.

I can see why you would think my approach is all about taking "short cuts". I'm old enough now though to have had enough scares due to previous exposure to dangerous chemicals via my occupation when I was younger that I'm very careful. I'm at the age when those things start catching up with a person. So far I've only had a few false alarms. For me minimizing my exposure to poison is an acceptable approach.

Don't worry about sounding preachy. I'm not easily offended and have no reason to assume that you have anything but the best of intentions. Thanks for participating. I will consider your comments.

 

[stylemaster2001]

Well, I gotta say, your second post sounded a lot more "slow and thought out"!!! I completely understand now why you mix as you do and must say you sound like you got it together! If you did use a calculator, I wont pull mine out and "check" to see what you would've/did come out with, sounds like you are "in the know" for what you want/need.

I'm not expert enough yet to say, but it sounds like with all that water and saline you would be diluting your mix too much, maybe. That could cause the lack of flavor you are getting. Maybe use the water and a "splash" of saline would serve you better. (Unless you have a formula that is telling you to mix in those proportions.

As far as the handling of the nic....lol, I have been playin' with bleach and hydrogen peroxide that would eat your hands off if not handled right, but so far (knock on wood) haven't spilled even one drop of nic anywhere. Got to where I mixed up 4 60ml bottles of flavor and 3 30's the other day right at the kitchen counter. I open the window right there and turn the ceiling fan up and never had a problem playin' with the nic. I don't have any kids of young age anymore, or pets to worry about knocking anything over, so I don't have that worry...

Hope your tests work out, I will follow this thread to watch and perhaps even learn a thing or two myself!!!

 

[keelalagirl55]

I premix my base down to 12mg and 18mg.......I'm not that concerned with the slight decrease in nic level when I add my flavoring. I'm to a point in my journey that I don't NEED the nic at a certain level and my pg/vg ratio preference doesn't sway too much for that to even matter. With that being the case for me.....I have less bottles to have do deal with and worry about when I sit to mix. Less room for mistakes with a dog or cat distraction (a mistake with flavoring is much more tolerable than a mistake with my nic measurements or remembering if I even added it already or not, etc)


As for your flavoring and the recipes you found......my only suggestion is to get to know those individual flavors and at what levels work best for YOU. Those recipes are at a % suitable for the creator and is not a one size fits all recipe. Recipes are a good resource for mix ideas, but the levels will be different for different mixers.

 

[TDC123]

I am going to leave these flavors alone and see what happens. I'm also going to proceed by working with some of these flavors as single ingredient juices.

I do take careful notes of exactly what I have done and each change I make. We will see how it goes.

 

[Huckleberried]

As far as coconut goes, you could try FlavourArt. None of the bad stuffs and tastes great!

 

[we2rcool]

I put my actual questions in bold print so those who may potentially choose to answer a question for me may avoid reading this entire wall of text if they choose to.

So here is what I did to get started with DIY ejuice after ordering a ridiculous amount of various flavorings, syringes etc.

I combined...

473 ml (16 oz bottle) of Humco usp grade glycerine from the pharmacy.

44 ml of 9% saline ( the wound cleansing kind with no other ingredients)

44 ml of distilled water

That gave me 561 ml of pre mixed base that I would just treat as vg for the purpose of using one of the online calculators.

I quickly realized that dealing with 100 mg/ml for the purpose of mixing each single bottle of juice would be terribly tedious due to the need to handle it so carefully so I added...

38 ml of 100 ml/mg nicotine mixed in glycerine.

So I now have a mason jar on the ready with a premixed base of slightly over 6 mg/ml unless I am missing something. Please point out the error of my ways if I am miscalculating something.

Of course my nic level will drop once I add flavors to this premixed concocotion that I'm using as a base and I'm ok with it going down some. I just make my target nicotene level in that online calculator zero since I have it all premixed. I can probably fiddle with the calculator though a bit and get really close considerin that most of these bottles have some extra room.

So I took this concotion and mixed the following recipes according to instructions from the TFA recipe thread...

Sour Berry Blast
Andes Mints
JACE (I did not have apple so I substited "double Kiwi")
Fruity Fritz
Doublemint
Cherry Limeade

They all smell wonderful but the flavor is lacking in intensity with the Cherry Limeade and Sour Berry Blast. I thought fruit flavors didn't need much "steep time". Can I expect them to improve or should I start trying to add a bit more flavor to them now? The Andes Mints was decent enough right away. I could taste the chocolate and the mint fairly well. I'm still hoping it will improve with time though. I do like strong flavors. I have not sampled the others.

I have Kalua and Creme, cappucino, coffee, espresso. I would like to come up with a sweet and pleasant coffee inspired morning vape but have yet to find such a recipe. Can anyone help with that? Part of the problem is that I am avoiding all those flavors that potentially have those possibly dangereous "custard notes" but I do have all of the other possible "cream" flavors that aren't on the naughty list as well. As ridiculous as this sounds, there are few TFA flavors I do not have other than those known to potentially contain the dangerous ingredients.

I stick with the TFA stuff for simplicities sake but is there a brand of coconut flavoring made that does not have the possibly dangerous "custard notes"?

Thanks in advance,

TC

Thoughts -

--Anything and everything made with a VG base needs a bit of extra steep time - even when the VG is diluted. The fastest and most effective way to get a good 'all round steep' is to put the bottles in something that will maintain 150 degrees (F) for four hours. Only the most persnickety of flavor mixes will do much changing after that.

--Your base (without nic) is 80% VG, 10% distilled water and 10% saline (assuming you mean .9% solution and not 9%). If it's 9%, that's way too much saline.

--We also use a similar premixed VG base. When we started we made a LOT of variations, testing them all on single flavors - then tasting each one to see what was most consistently "best". We settled (at that time, on that equipment) at 80% VG; 9% distilled water; 9% saline (.9% solution) and 2% pga (pure grain alcohol). And that was stellar-perfect until we switched wicking material (to Nextel, which allows more flavor to come through). At that point, we had to lessen the saline to 1/2 that amount, as the salt was taking away from the 'sweet' and the 'flavor intensity', rather than accentuating & enhancing them. So, perhaps the saline at 10% in your base is a bit too high? Or perhaps it's perfect? We'd suggest mixing up a batch of your base at 15% distilled water and 5% saline (.9%) - remix a couple of your recipes with that - and then taste them side-by-side to compare. Then you'll know...and knowing for yourself IS the foundation of being able to successfully create juices that you will love.

--We keep a huge jar of our base mixed with nic at our current nic level. We always use that for testing recipes (or for making recipes with less than 10% flavor)...and for unflavored vaping.

--I can't say this loudly enough...NIC MATTERS! You'll be doing yourself a HUGE favor to read through this thread: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/561598-opinions-vapers-tek-nicotine-base.html

--We haven't made any of those recipes, but we do recall scanning through the thread frequently and seeing many of the TFA recipes contain sweetener-sucralose and/or EM (Cotton Candy) - see the quoted posted at the end. Both of these additives (as well as lemon juice and vinegars) can & do lessen, mute, kill and alter flavor. It is our (very strong) opinion that all newbies should stay away from using additives until they understand fully 'how they work', 'what they actually do' and "k-n-o-w know" their flavors and flavor mixes. It just makes sense, eh? No one in the kitchen would dump in a bunch of salt, pepper & spices until they've tasted what they're making and decide those 'additives' are needed. You'll have MUCH more consistency and predicatability in your DIYing if you wait to use additives until you're sure than you need/want them.

Besides, if you like 'strong flavors', the last thing on earth you want to add to your juices are additives that mute & diminish flavor! In our experience, if a recipe contains more than 1% sweetener/sucralose or EM (cotton candy), we immediately cut the flavor percentages by around 25%. If there's more than 1%, we can usually cut the flavors by 50% (or thereabouts).

As far as coffees, virtually all DIYers agree that the TFA "coffees" are some of the hardest to "get right" (wethinks 'impossible' would be a more apt description). Most agree the only 'sure bet' is Caramel Cappuccino - at 1 drop per 10 ml. You'll like have MUCH more success with the FlavourArt (FA) coffees - particularly the Espresso (Dark Bean) and Tiramisu (the FA Cappuccino is not as good as the other two, but still much better than the TFA). Both are extremely easy to 'get to know', mix beautifully with other flavors, and always yield consistently awesome results. Be SURE to check out this thread for GREAT recipes (easy, low percentage)...for coffees and a fabulous assortment of stellar vapes: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/518022-pure-vapes-has-3ml-flavourart-flavorings.html

Coconut without 'custard notes'...once again, FA wins. Their coconut is "spot on" real coconut (not 'candy' or sweetened flakes). In fact, the entire FA E Cigarette line (not their Kitchen Magic line) are free of diacetyl, acetyl propionyl & acetoin. And we2thinks (no, we2 are sure), there's nothing at all "ridiculous" about opting to avoid inhaling chemicals that are known inhalation risks.

'Sounds to us like you've done a lot of good research and you're off to a great start! 'Just take it slow enough to really know what you're doing & why (and be sure to keep good notes).

Happy Mixing!

Regarding the addition of sucralose (and other additives that diminish flavor). Note that EM/cotton candy is not mentioned in the post below, although it is likely the worst offender. We can only guess the OP didn't include it because the flavor muting effects (both to the juices, and to the taste-buds of many vapers), are so well known. From here, Post #413: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/268760-diy-master-techniques-flavor-add-ons-em-vw-bw-mts-acv-ect-11.html

As far as I can recall, I was the one who tested lemon juice and the effects it had on fruit flavors. At the time I was also using sucralose (ezsweets) in fruit/bakery flavors. I also tested distilled vinegar (not acv, I dont use it) on tobaccos.

What I found with fruit and bakery vapes is they were great initally with the additives, for about two days. Then on day 3 like clockwork the sharpness/crispness of the flavor was just... plain... gone. It never rebounded either. It just continued decline. So I started testing the same juices with lemon juice and sucralose separately. Trying to find the culprit. The result in my tests was that they BOTH decrease flavor output of ejuice. While they help initally boost and sweeten flavor, within a few days, they both cause ejuice to simply go flat. While its a more dramatic example, I feel the same way about ejuice with lemon or sucralose as I do about flat soda pop. Its just lackluster.

This occured in both high VG bases at 80% and high PG bases at 80%. I tested both because I didnt want people calling me out saying VG mutes flavor, which to this day I refute as utter nonsense.

I no longer use either in any of my mixing. I have found that using fruit flavors with alcohol bases provide more than enuff sweetening o. their own if they are steeped for 48-72 hours, and it helps that I use 80%VG in my juice.

As far as tobaccos go I also agree vinegar that after a few days it can flatten flavors over time. However!!! As I vape mostly tobacco ejuices I still add 1 drop/5ml of distilled white vinegar to my vapes. To counter the flattening I adjust by adding slightly more flavoring. About .5% to 1% more flavoring in a final mix. In my experience this counters the effect of flavor flattening with DV and allows mostly all tobacco vapes to round out immediately. (note: i also heat steep my juices at a constant 150° in a water bath in a crock pot for four hours after mixing and have found it it adds about 2 weeks to the aging process of ejuice). At the 2 weeks mark (in my case then this is 4 hours after mixing), all of your tobacco flavors will have a spike in flavor and will stay there, but only round more given time. Giving you a spiked up flavor but still rounded body to your vape. I found apple cider vinegar made bad and good juuces worse with no spike at all, but to be fair I barely ever tested acv.

All of my vapes... yes read that as ALL... are primed and full bodied in four hours. Period. Ultrasonic isnt the answer either. Hand shaking is enuff for juice. Heat allows flavor dissipation and release FAR FAR better.

Alot of what I do flys in the face of common and well "documented" processes others use like ultrasonic steeping tho. (if it works for ya, great. I know what I know and heat is the key, not vibration. And yeah, I tested that too about three months ago so I stand behind it).

People just pretty much ignored my testing. I took painstaking measures to control the samples and.prove to myself the results. Today when people say they use lemon juice, or sucralose and RAVE about the results.... I know they are NOT vaping stellar juice. They are absolutely, positively, better off without both. Unless they are going to vape what they make in under two days.

Note: I did not bother testing the effects of citric acid powder in juice, but I assume it has the same effect as lemon juice and mutes flavors.

 

[we2rcool]

Well, I gotta say, your second post sounded a lot more "slow and thought out"!!! I completely understand now why you mix as you do and must say you sound like you got it together! If you did use a calculator, I wont pull mine out and "check" to see what you would've/did come out with, sounds like you are "in the know" for what you want/need.

I'm not expert enough yet to say, but it sounds like with all that water and saline you would be diluting your mix too much, maybe. That could cause the lack of flavor you are getting. Maybe use the water and a "splash" of saline would serve you better. (Unless you have a formula that is telling you to mix in those proportions.

As far as the handling of the nic....lol, I have been playin' with bleach and hydrogen peroxide that would eat your hands off if not handled right, but so far (knock on wood) haven't spilled even one drop of nic anywhere. Got to where I mixed up 4 60ml bottles of flavor and 3 30's the other day right at the kitchen counter. I open the window right there and turn the ceiling fan up and never had a problem playin' with the nic. I don't have any kids of young age anymore, or pets to worry about knocking anything over, so I don't have that worry...

Hope your tests work out, I will follow this thread to watch and perhaps even learn a thing or two myself!!!

Just fyi - VG diluted by 20% is still thicker than plain VG. There are many VG-mixers that use a 20% dilution (we once read that MBV dilutes their VG mixes by 30%). Too much water doesn't "dilute" flavor - the flavor percentage is the same no matter what base mix is used. However, too much saline will alter flavor. 'Just like salt, a little bit seriously pops flavors (not to mention the benefits for hydration in a vape), but too much salt and you start to lose sweetness and alter the flavors. Way too much, and you'll start tasting the salt.

Happy mixing!

 

[DeloresRose]

Mixing it this way has less to do with cost or even efficiency than it does with reducing risk. For me personally, I would rather handle something with as much potential for a dangerous mishap as 100mg/ml nicotine does have as infrequently as possible.

You're not the first person on this forum I've seen express this concern. I always use 100mg nic. I would treat any of it with the same respect no mater how low the nic is, even in my 6mg mixed juice (well, I don't wear gloves, but I do wash my hands and keep the stuff out of reach). I'm always cautious, but not paranoid. I used to be a housekeeper in a TB ward. The chemicals were not as caustic as those stylemaster2001 dealt with, but TB... yikes.

Just so you know not to use any higher nic than 100mg, and you use appropriate precautions, you should be fine.

 

[TDC123]

we2rcool....Thank you, thank you, thank you. All my questions answered so perfectly well and even answers to other questions that have been rolling around in my noggin as I begin venturing into DIY. Do you have a crystal ball or something?

I've been "on the fence" about all the different steeping methods. That post you provided by copying and pasting it into your own post was very helpful. I will be firing up the crock pot when I get back in from work later.

I'm sure you did recognize my concoction as my attempt at mimicing your own. However I got the percentages off just a bit early on when compensating for a less than perfectly accurate amount of glycerin in the bottle I purchased. Yes, I read, and read and read some more preparing to start mixing. I did not want my first effort to be a total disaster. I did this first attempt on election day so running out to grab some pga was not an option. There are no alcohol sales here on election day. I'm about to head into town and will pick up some everclear to add to this mix of mine.

I have been reading the pure vapes thread and also about FA. I was just starting to feel like I had worked my way through enough information to place an order and your advice will help me order some flavors. There was some conflicting information regarding the contents of their flavorings at first. At least in the posts I was reading there was. Plus they are right here in KY!! They will get an order from me today.

I would have to pull up the recipes to be specific but several of them DID have me add sweetener or lemon juice. In the future I will avoid that. It will be interesting to see how this first batch of juices comes out after a steep when comparing the ones that included sweetener and lemon juice to those that did not.

There is good news though to report. I made up two bottles of the doublemint and gave one to a lady friend while she was over. She just called to report she tried it and really liked it. She doesn't even like doublemint gum. So I dripped some into my TOBH and it is spot on, a nice strongly flavored vape that tastes to me just like doublemint gum! It somehow even has that aftertaste that doublemint gum has on the exhale. I'm really pleased with that one. It's a nice full feeling vape too.

Thanks for all the validation, advice and information from everyone!!

 

[DeloresRose]

Ah, sweet success! It's like baking, really. You learn a few techniques, gather some good recipes, and away you go! I still have a lot to learn, but I'm having a ball with it. Sounds like you are too!

 

[TDC123]

An update:

After four hours steeping in the crockpot...all the fruit mixes are very muted. It's hard to even tell one from the other. They all have the same muted flavor.

The doublemint came out fine from the get go. The Andes Mints was decent from the start. Steeping did seem to help it a little bit.

It's back to the drawing board for me with the fruit flavors.

 

[Heabob]

You maybe could add a bit more flavoring to your weak fruits, but I wouldn't go over 20% total.


Coffee type:

I'll vote for the FA Tirimisu @ 1%, plenty strong enough for me.
But then I add 3% TFA Vanilla Swirl and 1% TFA Marshmallow to help smooth it out some more.
Steep for a couple 30 min cycles in my UC (mostly for the heat), then on the shelf for several days.


Haven't tried the FA Expresso yet, but heard good things about it.

 

[TDC123]

The JACE recipe came out the best but it was still rather flat. Interestingly, of the four fruit juice blends I tried, the JACE had 14% total flavoring whereas the others all came out to 20% total.

 

[TDC123]

I guess I may need to do a little reading about vape tongue. I recall seeing it menioned several times. I did vape an awful lot today. I changed the cotton in my drippers for the upteenth time today and went back to some pre mixed flavors that I got from Seduce Juice. I could barely taste those as well. Yesterday they were quite strong.

 

[Heabob]

So the Cherry Limeade recipe I have calls for 2% Lemon Juice, which I never use. (some add a couple drops only)
And also calls for sweetener, which I never use anymore, as this will kill flavors.
Haven't actually made this one but Key Lime at 14% and Marsh. Cherry at 4% should be plenty strong enough.

 

[TDC123]

Thaks for that heabob. I have learned since mixing my first batch of juices up to leave that stuff out.

Something else is going on though. I have been hitting some fruity flavors constantly for the last couple days. I pulled out my black ice and blue ice from MBV and even those strong flavors are very muted for me.

Perhaps I will find out once this clears how my flavors actually taste. It's wierd. It's like I can taste the flavors right on my lips for a milisecond but my tongue and throat just aren't responding. Even exhaling through my nose I'm not getting much. With those strong menthol flavors from MBV I can just feel the cool tingle with little flavor.

 

[Heabob]

Sounds like your tasters are tired.

Drink lots of water, eat, sleep, and try again tomorrow

 

[entoptic]

Keep computations simple. Use metric. Preferably in easily divisible units. Dilutions are simple if you keep a common denominator. Personally, I like 10, 20, 50, and 100 as a base.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk