FDA Does the FDA have jurisdiction over Native American tribes?

[Gato del Jugo]

Looks like they've been trying to worm their way in, anyway..

http://www.fda.gov/downloads/TobaccoProducts/NewsEvents/UCM272603.pdf


Just thinking ahead & out loud..

Chief Sitting Bull e-liquid, anyone?



Given what happened with raw milk, I guess the Amish are out of the picture with this, anyway..

Feds shut down Amish farm for selling fresh milk - Washington Times

I really like this part..

"The FDA began looking into Mr. Allgyer's operations in late 2009, when an investigator in the agency’s Baltimore office used aliases to sign up for a Yahoo user group made up of Rainbow Acres customers."

 

[Kent C]

http://www.nihb.org/docs/05082014/Tribal_Deeming_letter.pdf

A note from Mitch to the Tribes..... see last sentence, third paragraph.... they're included.

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

As a general rule, the tribes can't do anything special that can have an impact beyond their reservations (such as selling products). That's the extent of their "separate soveriegnty."

In other words, if the product or effect can go beyond their boundaries, they're usually subject to state and Federal law.

 

[Kent C]

As a general rule, the tribes can't do anything special that can have an impact beyond their reservations (such as selling products). That's the extent of their "separate soveriegnty."

In other words, if the product or effect can go beyond their boundaries, they're usually subject to state and Federal law.

Huh? Tribes sell cigs to anyone, used to online... don't know if that's still the case. Yep:

 

[Roger_Lafayette]

Huh? Tribes sell cigs to anyone, used to online... don't know if that's still the case. Yep:

Discount Cigarettes Shopping Guide

That link didn't lead anywhere, but I found a few others which indicate that this is still going on, at least as of late last year:

http://nypost.com/2013/12/02/despite-law-tribe-sells-1-7-tons-of-cigarettes-online/

It's gotta be illegal under both state law and the FSPTCA (particularly because some of these tribes have started making their own cigarettes after the FSPTCA dates, according to some other links I was looking at.

Let's put it this way - if the tribes could do this legally, they could single-handly undermind the entire FSPTCA. not to mention deprive all these state and a few local jurisdictions of all their tax money.

My best guess is that perhaps there's some kind of wink-wink/nod-nod thing going on here. The FDA may not wish to risk the theoretical possiblity of losing in the courts, and has cut a deal with the tribes of some sort behind the scenes (i.e. the tribes can continue selling if they keep their scale small). Who know.

But if it is legal for the tribes to completely evade the FSPTCA, then of course we have the solution

 

[Kent C]

Indian Smokes Online Cheap Discount Cigarettes

 

[aikanae1]

No you can not buy from tribes online. Not cigarettes. They tried almost heroic ways to continue doing that - selling coupons, tokens, etc and were blocked by credit cards before it was illegal. A few may still take money orders or checks mailed to them or echecks kinda like some vape places take paypal until they close them down.

Tribes don't escape state authority or taxes. I think they do escape federal taxes. They must have to observe federal regulations since I haven't seen a whole bunch of FDA unapproved smoking products (I'm surrounded by tribes). I takes to a couple of them around here and they pretty much repeat BT lines; not interested in carrying any ecig products outside of BT, "regulation is good", "eliquid made in a bathtub", etc. I could be wrong.

 

[Kent C]

No you can not buy from tribes online. Not cigarettes. They tried almost heroic ways to continue doing that - selling coupons, tokens, etc and were blocked by credit cards before it was illegal. A few may still take money orders or checks mailed to them or echecks kinda like some vape places take paypal until they close them down.

Tribes don't escape state authority or taxes. I think they do escape federal taxes. They must have to observe federal regulations since I haven't seen a whole bunch of FDA unapproved smoking products (I'm surrounded by tribes). I takes to a couple of them around here and they pretty much repeat BT lines; not interested in carrying any ecig products outside of BT, "regulation is good", "eliquid made in a bathtub", etc. I could be wrong.

I know that path. I used money orders but that was a while ago. As far as age verification goes, from the very first purchase online, one needed to fax a license which they checked and verified.

 

[aikanae1]

Indian Smokes Online Cheap Discount Cigarettes

Interesting. But why? I see prices the same or higher. Maybe not in NY. Often the devil is in the details. It's only until it's time to checkout that problems appear. I wasn't willing to take it that far. Still, there weren't any unapproved products. I don't see where your going.

 

[Kent C]

Interesting. But why? I see prices the same or higher. Maybe not in NY. Often the devil is in the details. It's only until it's time to checkout that problems appear. I wasn't willing to take it that far. Still, there weren't any unapproved products. I don't see where your going.

It's been a while since I was in that mode but at first the price difference was substantial. Then first the credit card stop, then paypal, etc. and prices started to merge with the general market - although not totally. That's when there was the 'RYO/MYO' boom, of which I participated. Then the same thing started happening there, as far as buying tobacco online, plus supplies would dry up easily. I had almost every RYO filling machine made at one point. lol

 

[squee]

It's gotta be illegal under both state law and the FSPTCA (particularly because some of these tribes have started making their own cigarettes after the FSPTCA dates, according to some other links I was looking at.

Let's put it this way - if the tribes could do this legally, they could single-handly undermind the entire FSPTCA. not to mention deprive all these state and a few local jurisdictions of all their tax money.

I used to buy my cigs online from one of the tribes for about 10 years, first by cc and then electronic check. It's not illegal to do so, even now. What made it almost impossible was the passage of the PACT act, which outlawed using the US postal service to ship cigarettes. So while the tribes can sell their product, they can't ship them. Some of them try to use alternate shippers but they have limited areas and delivery capability.

 

[Gato del Jugo]

http://www.nihb.org/docs/05082014/Tribal_Deeming_letter.pdf

A note from Mitch to the Tribes..... see last sentence, third paragraph.... they're included.

Wow, they want to try to close as many loopholes as possible...


So what's the legality of all this..? The FDA has full jurisdiction of sovereign tribal lands now??

A big legal stink needs to be made over this...

 

[Kent C]

Wow, they want to try to close as many loopholes as possible...


So what's the legality of all this..? The FDA has full jurisdiction of sovereign tribal lands now??
A big legal stink needs to be made over this...

I doubt it. Bureau of Indian Affairs is a powerful agency, well supported politically and financially. They've remained exempt from lots of stuff, but it would all depend on the viewpoints of the tribal leaders. Tobacco has religious implications as well - doubt if ecigs would fit there but who knows.