Dr. Zorba Paster and more misinformation of e-cigs

[Stubby]

Dr. Zorba Paster: E-cigs have not proven to be safe alternative

This showed up in a local paper. In his first article in mid-December he gave out this little tidbit of bad information

The real gunslingers to watch in this shootout are the tobacco makers who want you to think that "smokeless" tobacco is much safer. They're now being joined by new snake oil salesmen, the battery-powered "no smoke" cigarette lobby that claims these gadgets safely satisfy the craving. They don't and users often find themselves back on tobacco. These guys are the real pushers.

This time he has gone into much more extensive lies and gone on the attack. Makes me wonder if this has anything to do with the upcoming legislation that would officially exempt e-cigs from the current smoking ban in Wisconsin.

Edit: This should be move to the Media and General News

 

[TonyTT]

Chewy, although no nicotine gum or lozenge tapering studies exist, a recent population level UK survey found gradual weaning from smoking only about half as effective as quitting abruptly (West 2011). Also, as yet there are no long-term studies of the health ramifications of chemical dependency upon nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) products. It is possible that some of the health concerns being expressed by some long-term users may be attributable to nicotine's angiogenic, toxin and vasoconstrictive properties. Although vastly safer than when smoked, drop for drop nicotine is more deadly than diamondback rattlesnake venom or strychnine and three times deadlier than arsenic (LD50=40-60mg).

Chewy, the reason quitting nicotine seems so hard is that your brain dopamine pathways are dependent upon it. Nicotine addiction is a brain wanting disorder, a mental illness in which your mind sees that next nicotine feeding as being as important as eating food. The good news is that within 72 hours of ending all nicotine use your blood will become nicotine free and you'll move past peak withdrawal. Once saturated brain receptors need time to re-sensitize and down-regulate their numbers to levels seen in non-users. Try not to be afraid, as nicotine's wanting message is a lie. Without food we die, without nicotine we thrive! Imagine journeying to a day where you go the entire day without once wanting to chew nicotine. It's a good thing, not bad. Everything done while under nicotine's influence can be done as well as or better without it.

There's really only one nicotine quitting rule, that lapse almost always equals relapse, that once is too many and a thousand never enough. It isn't a matter of strength or willpower but of brain dopamine pathway design and function, to make pathway activating events extremely difficult to ignore. For example, just one puff of nicotine and within seconds up to half of brain dopamine pathway receptors become occupied. While about half walk away from using (cheating) just once feeling like they've gotten away with it, it isn't long before receptor saturation wears off and their brain is again wanting or begging for more. Just one rule ... no nicotine just one hour, challenge and day at a time! Yes you can!

John R. Polito
Nicotine Cessation Educator

Posted in the comments section: I think it's a little silly that the approach described here is to force a complete overhaul on people's lives. It kinda has the ring of "Let Jesus save your soul and believe in God, or you'll go to Hell". As he slowly recomends people one at a time to overcome their demons and fight the biggest fight of their lives and not fail, while people are quickly dying. I just don't understand...wouldn't you wan't to greatly reduce the risk of a large number of people quickly and efficiently, or hope that 4 people in 96 get the message and follow through on your advice?

 

[MattZuke]

Although vastly safer than when smoked, drop for drop nicotine is more deadly than diamondback rattlesnake venom

I tried smoking rattlesnakes, they don't stay lit, but they taste like chicken.

 

[Seanl]

I tried smoking rattlesnakes, they don't stay lit, but they taste like chicken.

Did you dip them in ammonia for 3 days and dry them properly first?

Back on topic, is this doctor an ex smoker?

 

[CoffeeFairy]

drop for drop nicotine is more deadly than diamondback rattlesnake venom

On a theme, I would love to get nitpicky here and point out that diamondback rattlesnake (Crotalus atrox) venom is a hemotoxin while nicotine is a neurotoxin. It would still be a nice point if we were INJECTING the stuff into ourselves instead of consuming it in far safer ways and in far safer amounts/concentrations.

Would love to argue the point of "Everything done while under nicotine's influence can be done as well as or better without it."....not so for many of us!!!

This IS scarily....evangelical and manic. It reminds me of the 12-step programs that used to get shoved down our throats for every little thing in the world (Quit biting your nails with our easy 12 STEP PROGRAM!!!).

And on the OP...I read through the so-called article. If this man were my personal physician I'd fire him for incompetence - even my mother's 70+ 'old country doctor' knows better.

 

[MattZuke]

Did you dip them in ammonia for 3 days and dry them properly first?

Back on topic, is this doctor an ex smoker?

Don't know. I think he's someone who thinks being a jackass promotes laughter, and because laughter is healthy he is healthy.

They want them removed from the market just like they did with candy cigarettes

Candy cigarettes were not removed from the market. Neither has Big League chew nor Beef Jerky Snuff.

I'll gladly admit I have to hit a novelty shop for candy cigarettes, but still sold.

 

[sqirl1]

I thought this one's old news, at the very least he said something REALLY similar like a month ago. what an idiot man......

 

[DC2]

Unless I'm reading something different than you were reading...
This is actually FAR more reasonable than the last piece of garbage he puked up.

 

[fumarole]

OK I have a problem. I don't know if I should post (1) or (2). Opinions please.

1.
If I wanted Super Mario's opinion about e-cigarettes, I'd ask for it.

or,

2.
Damn. Looks like Super Mario sold out to Big Pharma.

 

[DC2]

Commented...


"The FDA deemed them an unsafe drug delivery device and brought the manufacturers to court."

That is actually not true. The FDA deemed them to be an unregulated and unapproved drug delivery device. They found absolutely nothing unsafe about them. In fact, one of the main reasons Judge Leon ruled against the FDA is because they could not produce a single piece of evidence that electronic cigarettes have ever harmed anyone, or ever will harm anyone.

Here is the quote from Judge Leon himself...

"FDA contends that the public interest in health and safety weighs in favor of denying preliminary relief because, by enforcing the FDCA as it sees fit, FDA protects the public from unsafe and ineffective drugs. FDA further contends that the potential harm to other interested parties or to the public interest, should the court grant the preliminary injunction and allow the unapproved electronic cigarettes into the market, would far outweigh the economic harm to plaintiffs, should the court deny the preliminary injunction. I disagree. While FDA's interest in protecting public health and safety is, in the abstract, paramount to plaintiffs' purely economic interests, given the particular facts and circumstances of this case, I am not convinced that the threat to the public interest in general or to third parties in particular is as great as FDA suggests. Together, both Smoking Everywhere and NJOY have already sold hundreds of thousands of electronic cigarettes, yet FDA cites no evidence that those electronic cigarettes have endangered anyone."

 

[Thulium]

Commented...


"The FDA deemed them an unsafe drug delivery device and brought the manufacturers to court."

That is actually not true. The FDA deemed them to be an unregulated and unapproved drug delivery device. They found absolutely nothing unsafe about them. In fact, one of the main reasons Judge Leon ruled against the FDA is because they could not produce a single piece of evidence that electronic cigarettes have ever harmed anyone, or ever will harm anyone.

Here is the quote from Judge Leon himself...

"FDA contends that the public interest in health and safety weighs in favor of denying preliminary relief because, by enforcing the FDCA as it sees fit, FDA protects the public from unsafe and ineffective drugs. FDA further contends that the potential harm to other interested parties or to the public interest, should the court grant the preliminary injunction and allow the unapproved electronic cigarettes into the market, would far outweigh the economic harm to plaintiffs, should the court deny the preliminary injunction. I disagree. While FDA's interest in protecting public health and safety is, in the abstract, paramount to plaintiffs' purely economic interests, given the particular facts and circumstances of this case, I am not convinced that the threat to the public interest in general or to third parties in particular is as great as FDA suggests. Together, both Smoking Everywhere and NJOY have already sold hundreds of thousands of electronic cigarettes, yet FDA cites no evidence that those electronic cigarettes have endangered anyone."

Nicely stated. Furthermore, Dr Paster was inaccurate in his claimed that "FDA...brought the manufacturers to court". In fact, it was the e-cigarette manufacturers who brought suit against the FDA for placing import restrictions on products that, as Judge Leon found and the Appellate court agreed, are not subject to regulation under the Food Drug & Cosmetic Act.

 

[DC2]

Nicely stated. Furthermore, Dr Paster was inaccurate in his claimed that "FDA...brought the manufacturers to court". In fact, it was the e-cigarette manufacturers who brought suit against the FDA for placing import restrictions on products that, as Judge Leon found and the Appellate court agreed, are not subject to regulation under the Food Drug & Cosmetic Act.

I was so upset about the "unsafe drug delivery device" comment I didn't even read to the end of the sentence!

 

[TonyTT]

OK I have a problem. I don't know if I should post (1) or (2). Opinions please.

1.
If I wanted Super Mario's opinion about e-cigarettes, I'd ask for it.

or,

2.
Damn. Looks like Super Mario sold out to Big Pharma.

If you mean to the actual article, I would post neither, I think it's better to promote more well meaning, well informed comments. Even the very informative ones seem to have enough edge to put the doctor on the defensive. He's human, and a bunch of people yelling that he is wrong is just going to make him feel the need to justify instead of listen. We might feel better, but as a community we need to present a united front of caring, understanding, and self-aware people. Making him mad won't do anything productiv

 

[Ande]

I agree that we should post politely.

But edge is important too. This guy is either dangerously ignorant, or actually evil.

The statements made about the FDAs actions towards ecigs are intentionally misleading. You can't know that the FDA wound up in court over this without knowing that they LOST.

Publicising the fact that there was a case and not including the RESULT of the case is willfully dishonest. Not finding out the result is simple negligence.

Ignorant or badly intentioned I couldn't say. But the man is in the wrong, and needs to be politely but repeatedly told.


B est,
Ande

 

[TonyTT]

If he's evil, edge won't help, and if he's ignorant, I don't know how much help edge would be either...I fear that his ignorance is born out of pride and ego. You make him take it personally, and no force on earth will convince him otherwise

 

[TonyTT]

Also, I don't think calling the man Super Mario is edgy

 

[wfx]

... John R. Polito Nicotine Cessation Educator

I think it's a little silly that the approach described here is to force a complete overhaul on people's lives. It kinda has the ring of "Let Jesus save your soul and believe in God, or you'll go to Hell".

spot on analysis. this is faith based science.

 

[Eric A. Blair]

John, I commend your cold turkey method for people who actually want to quit nicotine altogether. At least you don't have a financial interest that I know of. Unlike big pharmaceutical companies who are trying to make billions by cornering the nicotine market like the Hunt brothers tried with silver.

But some people, including me, like nicotine. It's harmless.

I'm addicted to watching NFL football. Do you have a method to quit that too?

 

[Stubby]

Surprise surprise..... electronicman showed up. He's kind of fun to kick around as he is so easily refuted. He's good because he points out just how far afield from reality the ANTZ have gone.

 

[wfx]

Surprise surprise..... electronicman showed up. He's kind of fun to kick around as he is so easily refuted. He good because he points out just how far afield from reality the ANTZ have gone.

yes. an avid follower of ecf. a great 'whipping boy'. most think he's just a random nutter. an attention ..... that we should not be validating. personally i think he's a wonderful construct. he angers and motivates people to eloquent response.