Dual coil confusion
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Why yes, yes you would
The thing with dual coil attys is that if you were to check each individual coil they would show 4 ohms each but in parallel it cuts the resistance in half so you would use the same voltage to get to the same wattage - with that being said though I have discovered I need to recharge my batteries sooner (but this may just be in my mind) - I actually prefer a cooler, lighter throat hit from a single bottom coil ie: PT1 so I don't do dual coils very often
ha ha, funny story - I tried to build a dual coil in a knock off protank - epic fail
And remember, the only stupid question is the one you never ask
We are here to help everyone
or in southernese
Wese hare to hep yall (sorry - still upset with Paula Dean getting me addicted to Krispy Kreme double bacon cheeseburgers)
The thing with dual coil attys is that if you were to check each individual coil they would show 4 ohms each but in parallel it cuts the resistance in half so you would use the same voltage to get to the same wattage - with that being said though I have discovered I need to recharge my batteries sooner (but this may just be in my mind) - I actually prefer a cooler, lighter throat hit from a single bottom coil ie: PT1 so I don't do dual coils very often
ha ha, funny story - I tried to build a dual coil in a knock off protank - epic fail
And remember, the only stupid question is the one you never ask
We are here to help everyone
or in southernese
Wese hare to hep yall (sorry - still upset with Paula Dean getting me addicted to Krispy Kreme double bacon cheeseburgers)
You would just be using twice the current from your battery(battery would last half as long) if you had them set at the same voltage.
R X I = V (Resistance X Current = Volts)
R X I = V (Resistance X Current = Volts)
Though the voltage and resistance stays the same the amperage is Higher which will drain batteries faster
Ah OK, I thought with the 2 ohm reading being the the total resistance across the 2 parallel coils(both coils probably 4 ohm each), you use the R X I = V formula, unless you had 2 coils with different resistances and needed individual "I" values across each coil.
I'm going to go against the flow here.
Running a single 2 ohm coil at say 4 V, you are making 8 watts. Typically a pretty good vape.
Run two 2 ohm coils at 4 V you are also making 8 watts, but the power is split between the coils, so each coil is seeing only 4 watts. A very cool vape from each coil!
To get the full potential from the dual coils you would need to increase the voltage to about 5.7 V to have 16 watts split between the coils. Or you would need to reduce each coils resistance back to 2 ohms making the dual coil resistance 1 ohm, which would also increase total power to 16 watts. This gives each coil 8 watts and the vape becomes the best it can be.
Check out the Discountvapers website here. Scroll down almost to the bottom to where they discuss dual coil cartos.
ETA: I got it wrong. Neohaven caught it and posted a correction
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I agree with you about 50%. In a dual coil rebuildable, sure, as long as you can keep those coils fed with juice, but I don't think (because I don't have a PTII yet, basing this off the Aspire) you're going to get as pleasant an experience with a clearomizer at 16 watts.
Okay so here we go with Ohm's Law again, in my traditional informal manner. Sorry for calling you out here, Ryedan... I'm gonna explain this. All of this is a gross oversimplification. It's still better than most stuff I read every day. I'm using the wrong symbols, I know, but this is for laymen. There will be no TL;DR. There will be repeats of this. I'm sure.
Voltage is the "water pressure" equivalent in electrical systems. Let's call it "potential difference". A difference in electrical potential between two points leads to flow, much like a high lake flows the side of a mountain into a low lake. This is called "potential energy" in classical mechanics. Same thing exists in electrical systems. We good?
Amperage or Current is the "water current" equivalent. Very appropriately named. A larger canal between two lakes allows more flow. ~6*10^18 electrons passing through a point per second is called an Ampere. 6*10^23 is called "Avogadro's number" for you chemistry folks. 6*10^18 electrons is called a Coulomb. Similar number, but not to be confused. But this doesn't actually matter. My point explaining this is you don't spawn electrons. You move them around. You get a certain amount, and you move them around.
Resistance is a restriction in the tube. Ever notice how in a water tube (or a syringe, for the DIY juice makers), the pressure you put on the top of your syringe affects the speed of liquid spurting out? How you could empty a non-needled, luer-lock syringe faster than the same syringe with a needle? This is fairly equivalent to resistance. It doesn't need to be small, mostly just needs to have a weird path (think crazy straws...) and it will be a bit resistant.
So on a simple circuit, single coil, where I assume :
* No voltage drop in the mod
* A freshly charged battery @ 4.2V
* No voltage drop in the wiring
* A perfect battery that doesn't heat up
* Internal battery resistance is negligible
* A 2.0 Ohm coil.
I get the following values.
This is an acceptable vape to me, can be a bit better. (I like 9W in the evening...) All of this is just standard Ohm's law. I have R == 2Ohm and V == 4.2V known (see assumptions). The rest is plain Ohm's law. V/R=A and all that. Wattage is straight up V*A
"When you make that a dual coil, what happens?", I hear you say! Fear not, we shall explore that as well. Same assumptions, but dual *parallel* coils. Voltage is equal in parallel circuits, and we didn't change the Ohms. Let's see what happens, shall we?
Huh. Weird. The Amps work out to be the same for each coil. What's being pulled from our battery? What would happen if you could see at the "HERE?" in the circuit? It would see a resistance of 1.0 Ohm (parallel 2.0 resistors). Why? Volts don't split. They're not a "thing". They're a force that moves things. These things that are moved are electrons. *Those* aren't infinite. They split. Yet I'm getting twice the amount now? Hmm.
Wait, it's kind of weird how this matches up perfectly with what we hear everyday : "If you make 2 3Ohm coils, you'll see 1.5Ohm on your Provari". That is because, these resistors don't give a damn that they're in parallel. Ohm's Law still applies, and they'll pull 2.1Amps from their connections. They, together, will pull 4.2Amps at 4.2Volts. R=U/I... 1Ohm. Oh, and 17.64 Watts, by the way.
Sorry for that beatdown, but I'd rather see you people not explode. Be aware of Ohm's law and it's implications and you'll have a better understanding of the world around you, and a more reliable vape.
Voltage is the "water pressure" equivalent in electrical systems. Let's call it "potential difference". A difference in electrical potential between two points leads to flow, much like a high lake flows the side of a mountain into a low lake. This is called "potential energy" in classical mechanics. Same thing exists in electrical systems. We good?
Amperage or Current is the "water current" equivalent. Very appropriately named. A larger canal between two lakes allows more flow. ~6*10^18 electrons passing through a point per second is called an Ampere. 6*10^23 is called "Avogadro's number" for you chemistry folks. 6*10^18 electrons is called a Coulomb. Similar number, but not to be confused. But this doesn't actually matter. My point explaining this is you don't spawn electrons. You move them around. You get a certain amount, and you move them around.
Resistance is a restriction in the tube. Ever notice how in a water tube (or a syringe, for the DIY juice makers), the pressure you put on the top of your syringe affects the speed of liquid spurting out? How you could empty a non-needled, luer-lock syringe faster than the same syringe with a needle? This is fairly equivalent to resistance. It doesn't need to be small, mostly just needs to have a weird path (think crazy straws...) and it will be a bit resistant.
So on a simple circuit, single coil, where I assume :
* No voltage drop in the mod
* A freshly charged battery @ 4.2V
* No voltage drop in the wiring
* A perfect battery that doesn't heat up
* Internal battery resistance is negligible
* A 2.0 Ohm coil.
I get the following values.
Code:
Battery (Assume Perfect DC Power Source)
Volts : 4.2V
+-+
+---+| |+-------+
| +-+ | Resistor (Atty)
| +++ Volts : 4.2V
| ||| Amps : 2.1A
| ||| Resist : 2.0Ohm
| +++ Watts : 8.82W
| |
+---------------+This is an acceptable vape to me, can be a bit better. (I like 9W in the evening...) All of this is just standard Ohm's law. I have R == 2Ohm and V == 4.2V known (see assumptions). The rest is plain Ohm's law. V/R=A and all that. Wattage is straight up V*A
"When you make that a dual coil, what happens?", I hear you say! Fear not, we shall explore that as well. Same assumptions, but dual *parallel* coils. Voltage is equal in parallel circuits, and we didn't change the Ohms. Let's see what happens, shall we?
Code:
Battery (Assume Perfect DC Power Source)
Volts : 4.2V
+-+
+---+| |+-------+----------------------+
| +-+ | Resistor (Atty) | Resistor (Atty)
| +++ Volts : 4.2V +++ Volts : 4.2V
| ||| Amps : 2.1A ||| Amps : 2.1A
| ||| Resist : 2.0Ohm ||| Resist : 2.0Ohm
| +++ Watts : 8.82W +++ Watts : 8.82W
| | |
+--HERE?--------+----------------------+Huh. Weird. The Amps work out to be the same for each coil. What's being pulled from our battery? What would happen if you could see at the "HERE?" in the circuit? It would see a resistance of 1.0 Ohm (parallel 2.0 resistors). Why? Volts don't split. They're not a "thing". They're a force that moves things. These things that are moved are electrons. *Those* aren't infinite. They split. Yet I'm getting twice the amount now? Hmm.
Wait, it's kind of weird how this matches up perfectly with what we hear everyday : "If you make 2 3Ohm coils, you'll see 1.5Ohm on your Provari". That is because, these resistors don't give a damn that they're in parallel. Ohm's Law still applies, and they'll pull 2.1Amps from their connections. They, together, will pull 4.2Amps at 4.2Volts. R=U/I... 1Ohm. Oh, and 17.64 Watts, by the way.
Sorry for that beatdown, but I'd rather see you people not explode. Be aware of Ohm's law and it's implications and you'll have a better understanding of the world around you, and a more reliable vape.
IMO there are two things at play here. One; the science behind running a dual coil setup. Two; is a dual coil setup the right one to run in a device.
I think your 50% agreement is basically with my first point - each coil in a dual coil setup needs to be run at its best power level to achieve all the potential the system has. Of course this always assumes that wicking and air flow keep up. Without that there is a bottleneck that has nothing to do with the coil's best performing power level. The other thing is that operating dual coils at less than optimal power may well be a better experience than operating a single coil at optimum power.
The second point, which really comes from the first one, is I feel up to everyone to decide for themselves. I never tried dual coils until I got a Trident RDA. I always thought trying to keep dual coils wet in anything I didn't make myself was probably not a good idea, but many people like dual coil cartos at less than optimal power levels so they obviously work for them. And now we have dual coil clearos. Sometimes it's not as simple as making the math work out, but I suspect most people end up turning up the power at least a bit compared to single coil setups at the same resistance to get a good vape. I'm sure you know more about this with your Aspire experience than I do
You are, of course, absolutely correct, but the OP was asking about a 2 ohm single coil vs. a 2 ohm dual coil, not putting two 2-ohm coils in parallel.
I REALLY wanted to highlight this part of your response. Not to get all mystical, but there's something beyond the math and physics that makes for a good vape. I don't know what the percentages work out to, but there's definitely a murky area made up of impressions, expectations, opinions, and feelings that can't be measured with a Fluke.
All the calculations don't mean squat if you find you don't like X at Y volts - and they mean even less when you've got a big smile on your face.
You are not splitting the current between the two resistors due to the wider combined pipelines. Have a look at this explanation of resistors in parallel.
I'll give you a simple yes to your question, That's how I run mine and love them also.
I REALLY wanted to highlight this part of your response. Not to get all mystical, but there's something beyond the math and physics that makes for a good vape. I don't know what the percentages work out to, but there's definitely a murky area made up of impressions, expectations, opinions, and feelings that can't be measured with a Fluke.
All the calculations don't mean squat if you find you don't like X at Y volts - and they mean even less when you've got a big smile on your face.
K_Tech, I totally agree with you
But this thread is about what the OP asked and that was what I tried to answer. To say that the same voltage for both single and dual coils at the same combined resistance in a VV device is the way to go for the best experience is IMO wrong. Thank you for emphasizing the nuances/intricacies in the technology. It's really important for people to get that it's not all black and white, that it's not just numbers that make the vape experience
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Man, I can't wrap my head around this single/dual voltage wattage and that code pics OMG!!, I just adjust to my taste, that's all
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