Efest may not be as shady as everyone thinks.

[InTheShade]

It's not the 35amp efests that I have a problem with. From the testing I have read, the LG HE2 cell underneath the wrapper is a good battery.

I do however have a problem with the Efest 3100mAh 20 amp battery that was tested to really be a 6.4 amp continuous discharge (or a 10amp continuous in later incarnations) Full thread that makes interesting reading (including a response from Efest themselves) can be found http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/batteries-chargers/587759-purple-efest-18650-battery-warning.html

So just purely based on the fact that Efest overstate (or overstated) some of their performance parameters, I don't buy them. Add in the fact that I just had one leak (2000mAh, 10amp, about 40-50 charge cycles), I choose not to use them.

Personally, I have stopped recommending Efest batteries to members looking for recommendations and I have chosen to replace all of mine with the new AW 20amp, Sony VTC4 or 5's or Samsung 25R's.

 

[InTheShade]

...it all depends on the temperature you let the battery get to. if you build low, have several setups that you want to vape on and only let the tube get warm then let it cool off. Its all about cooling, just don't let the battery get HOT and you're fine. Of course I'm not saying its safe or that you SHOULD do what I do its just common sense, HEAT = BAD

In Stock genuine high discharge rate rechargeable cylindrical 18650 Li-Ion batteries Sony, LG, Samsung from PowerStream; authentic 18650HE2, US18650VCT4, US18650VCT5, VTC4, VTC5, INR18650-25R with battery data sheet and discharge curves

Read the First asterisk
*Maximum discharge current is somewhat arbitrary, you can always get more amps if you can accept more voltage sag and don't let the battery get too hot.

I would suggest that by the time your 'tube gets warm' (which seems to be your safety cut off), your battery is already too hot. My opinion only, but this is not a practice I would recommend.

 

[WattWick]

I love 'em and am convinced that the superior vape I get from my VTC5s is purely placeboic.

I already have my popcorn ready. Eagerly waiting to see the effects of cognitive dissonance in those who find themselves confronted with the possibility that a 'crap battery' may actually be hitting like a freight train after all.

 

[mix1983]

Yeah that's simple physics. Especially considering there's a coating between the battery and tube, and the battery isn't exactly snug on the tube like a CPU/heatsink. If the tube is getting warm, there's been heat for a while.

Not a great situation.

 

[WattWick]

In Stock genuine high discharge rate rechargeable cylindrical 18650 Li-Ion batteries Sony, LG, Samsung from PowerStream; authentic 18650HE2, US18650VCT4, US18650VCT5, VTC4, VTC5, INR18650-25R with battery data sheet and discharge curves

Read the First asterisk
*Maximum discharge current is somewhat arbitrary, you can always get more amps if you can accept more voltage sag and don't let the battery get too hot. The current we list here is the highest that the manufacturer (LG, Samsung or Sony) supplies discharge curves for. Look at the charts listed below to see the voltage drop and temperature rise.

Buy batteries from trusted sources regardless of how much you pay.
or do what you want.

That is completely ignoring the fact that repeatedly pushing a battery to (or past) its limits is detrimental to its health. Internal resistance will rise over time - at best. At worst - it may develop internal shorts. In which case "get too hot" is instantanious.

What makes a high drain battery a high drain battery is low internal resistance. Chip away at that and you no longer have a high drain battery.

Batteries are not rated with regards to single, short presses of a button. They're rated for a number of charge cycles. Repeatedly pushing them is like playing Russian roulette by adding another bullet every turn.

 

[six]

Eagerly waiting to see the effects of cognitive dissonance in those who find themselves confronted with the possibility that a 'crap battery' may actually be hitting like a freight train after all.

I don't think anyone regards the purple efest as a 'crap battery'. In fact, there's plenty of evidence (including the Danish reviewer I quoted earlier in this thread) to suggest it is an excellent battery.... It just isn't a 35 amp battery like they say it is. In fact, it is a 20 amp battery... so, when that battery is considered, I think people rightly question the ethics of the manufacturer for making claims that could in all reality result in someone's injury.... And it isn't just vapers who push these sorts of batteries very hard. If, for instance, an E-Bike guy blows a leg off because he set his bike up to pull 28-32 amps per cell and they can only do 20... that's just as bad as what could happen to a vaper. If someone decides to rebuild a cordless tool battery with these assuming they can do 35 because they say so, that could result in a serious situation.... They are great cells. They are not nearly capable of what they are advertized as being capable of, though.

 

[WattWick]

I'm with you. Was more thinking of the crowd that may go "Duuude these LGs hit so much more like a freight train than the Purples."

 

[pancing]

That is completely ignoring the fact that repeatedly pushing a battery to (or past) its limits is detrimental to its health. Internal resistance will rise over time - at best. At worst - it may develop internal shorts. In which case "get too hot" is instantanious.

What makes a high drain battery a high drain battery is low internal resistance. Chip away at that and you no longer have a high drain battery.

Batteries are not rated with regards to single, short presses of a button. They're rated for a number of charge cycles. Repeatedly pushing them is like playing Russian roulette by adding another bullet every turn.

yeesh you guys are worse than cpf, always assuming.

 

[WattWick]

yeesh you guys are worse than cpf, always assuming.

Really? Feel free to address what you believe to be an assumption.

 

[InTheShade]

I don't think anyone regards the purple efest as a 'crap battery'. In fact, there's plenty of evidence (including the Danish reviewer I quoted earlier in this thread) to suggest it is an excellent battery.... It just isn't a 35 amp battery like they say it is. In fact, it is a 20 amp battery... so, when that battery is considered, I think people rightly question the ethics of the manufacturer for making claims that could in all reality result in someone's injury.... And it isn't just vapers who push these sorts of batteries very hard. If, for instance, an E-Bike guy blows a leg off because he set his bike up to pull 28-32 amps per cell and they can only do 20... that's just as bad as what could happen to a vaper. If someone decides to rebuild a cordless tool battery with these assuming they can do 35 because they say so, that could result in a serious situation.... They are great cells. They are not nearly capable of what they are advertized as being capable of, though.

This is my position with Efest too - they have been suspected (I would say proven but let's stick with suspected) to have overstated the performance parameters of batteries before. Therefore I don't trust them. Simple as that. I have never said they are crap batteries - up until a few weeks ago I was using them in one of my APV's.

In fact, if you look at the discharge curves for many Efest batteries, you will see they out-perform some other well-known and respected brands like Panasonic and Sanyo.

To add a little perspective too, it's not as if we are seeing multiple reports of 18650 battery failure due to people exceeding the published limits of Efest batteries.

If this report from Kidney Puncher does in fact 'prove' the HE2 cell is capable of continuous discharge at 35amps then great, we've got another choice. Maybe I'll even buy some LG branded cells from Illumination supply.

I know I still won't buy the Efest branded ones though.

 

[six]

yeesh you guys are worse than cpf, always assuming.

There's no assumption. These batts have been tested by the guy from lygte... he is well respected on cpf and everywhere else. He says a 35 amp rating is "optimistic" (in other words, they can't do 35). Lots of people have pulled these apart and found LG cells in them that are rated 20 amp. I really can't say what kidneypuncher hopes to achieve having them tested again. They are a 20 amp lg. That's just what they are. It's an *excellent* battery, but just not rated for 35.

 

[Rickajho]

Oh for petey's sakes here's the test, draw your own conclusions: => Test of Efest IMR18650 2500mAh (Purple) 2014

The problem as I see it is while the eFest Purple 18500 and 18350's test out very close to the manufacturers stated specifications, the 18650 falls short - and not just a tiny bit short either.

One way or the other it's no skin off my ..... After my experiences with eFest reds regarding both poor performance and short life spans compared to... any other battery I have ever used I sure won't be picking any of these up myself. Some people with short term memory issues may not recall when eFest first came on the market and the initial reactions to the price and performance was "Oh wow!" - followed within 60 days by the reports of "What the hell?" as the run times started sliding rapidly down hill.

 

[The Cloud Minder]

I love 'em and am convinced that the superior vape I get from my VTC5s is purely placeboic.

Eh, maybe, but I seem to find my vtc5s hit harder at first, but don't last as long as my efests.

 

[tj99959]

We've always known that the he2 is a good battery.
I vape in the 8-10 watt range (2-2.5a), so 20a or 35a really doesn't make a hell of a lot of difference to me.

But all efest batteries are nothing more than AW rejects. (and AH batteries are nothing more than efest rejects)

 

[windxrunner]

So we have one test of the 3100 mAh that suggests it isn't capable of handling 20 amps... Done by some dude in his basement. I don't see how people can use that as something approaching proof that those batteries are overstated. Maybe they are capable of 20 amps. Efest doesn't usually put the word continuous in their specs, they use maximum discharge and I'm pretty sure they're putting what the cell can handle for vaping purposes. But whatever, go ahead and chew me out. I find it funny that people have it set so firmly in their minds that Efest is shady, all off some questionable tests not done in an actual lab, that they can't even begin to comprehend that they may not be so bad.

 

[WattWick]

So we have one test of the 3100 mAh that suggests it isn't capable of handling 20 amps... Done by some dude in his basement. I don't see how people can use that as something approaching proof that those batteries are overstated. Maybe they are capable of 20 amps. Efest doesn't usually put the word continuous in their specs, they use maximum discharge and I'm pretty sure they're putting what the cell can handle for vaping purposes. But whatever, go ahead and chew me out. I find it funny that people have it set so firmly in their minds that Efest is shady, all off some questionable tests not done in an actual lab, that they can't even begin to comprehend that they may not be so bad.

The dude you are referring to is well respected in more than one battery powered community.

Take a look at his lab setup and methodologies and make up your own mind.

http://lygte-info.dk/info/myLabSetup UK.html

 

[six]

So we have one test of the 3100 mAh that suggests it isn't capable of handling 20 amps... Done by some dude in his basement. I don't see how people can use that as something approaching proof that those batteries are overstated. Maybe they are capable of 20 amps. Efest doesn't usually put the word continuous in their specs, they use maximum discharge and I'm pretty sure they're putting what the cell can handle for vaping purposes. But whatever, go ahead and chew me out. I find it funny that people have it set so firmly in their minds that Efest is shady, all off some questionable tests not done in an actual lab, that they can't even begin to comprehend that they may not be so bad.

OK. Before I reply to this, I think it is important you understand this:



I am not talking about a product I do not own. You will notice your own avatar is the background for that photo.

That said: The review I quoted was not from a 3100 mah, it was from a 2500 mah. No one disputes the 2500 mah is 20 amp except folks who want to beleive they are 35 or those who want to market them as 35.. They simply are *not* 35 amp. They are 20 amp LG cells - that is what they are - that is the reality of how they exist.

These are undoubtedly a 20 amp LG. --- Kidneypuncher can have whatever they want tested, and they might even find an example or two that can handle 30 amps or 28 amps or 25 amps or whatever. That will never, ever change the fact that they are a 20 amp LG cell rated at 20 amps by LG and LG is the one who makes them and therefore is the only one who can say what they made them to be capable of doing. Efest does not make these cells. They rewrap 20 amp LGs and then claim they are a 35 amp battery. They are not a 35 amp battery even if *every* example is capable of 25 or more. They were made to be able to do 20 and all LG intended for them to do when they made them was to be used in applications that require less than 20. Even if someone finds an example or two that are spectacular and can output 35, they still are not a 35 amp rated battery. They will remain a 20 amp battery until the end of LG making them as 20 amp batteries.

I just don't know how to say any of this more clearly. I do realize that at least a couple of sentences of the above sound like I'm trying to be ornery. I am not. I am stating what I know to be absolute fact.

 

[InTheShade]

So we have one test of the 3100 mAh that suggests it isn't capable of handling 20 amps... Done by some dude in his basement. I don't see how people can use that as something approaching proof that those batteries are overstated. Maybe they are capable of 20 amps. Efest doesn't usually put the word continuous in their specs, they use maximum discharge and I'm pretty sure they're putting what the cell can handle for vaping purposes. But whatever, go ahead and chew me out. I find it funny that people have it set so firmly in their minds that Efest is shady, all off some questionable tests not done in an actual lab, that they can't even begin to comprehend that they may not be so bad.

So what is your angle here windxrunner? Why do you care so much about what some people think of Efest batteries?

Genuine question, not snark.

I made it clear why I choose not to use Efest batteries. I admit, I may be wrong about my conclusions, but it's a simple choice.

I spend $1-3 bucks more for my batteries and feel I am making a good decision. That's it - nothing nefarious and certainly my decision has absolutely no effect on you or anyone else (unless you work for or sell Efest batteries I suppose)

So why does it bother you so that some people have a mind-set that Efest are 'shady'?

 

[windxrunner]

I just find it annoying that people read something in one forum, have almost zero proof to back it up, then go on and on about how a company makes bad batteries. It all just spirals out of control because a lot of people just believe crap they read on the Internet. If you don't want to use them, I don't care, I use Samsung 25R's almost exclusively. It's not about loving Efest, it's about people slamming on a company and touting conjecture as fact. People that don't know any better who just read it in some thread then start to spread it, and now we have this clique of people who will just start trash talking every time purple Efests are mentioned. I'm not implying that anyone reading this is necessarily one of those people, but they exist and that is the cause of my annoyance. I really feel we should focus more on hard FACTS, something people in all corners of the Internet seem to ignore.

Also, I realize that Efest claimed the "continuous" on the 3100 mAh bats is 10 in that letter, I'm the one who originally found that letter and posted it on ECF. I'm just saying that for our purposes they seem to handle 20 amps decently and there's no way they are restricted to 6.4 amps. The whole 6.4 amp thing is a classic example of how one person says something that's complete conjecture, but now people that have never read that dude's tests swear up and down they are 6.4 amp cells. It's just idiotic.

 

[InTheShade]

I just find it annoying that people read something in one forum, have almost zero proof to back it up, then go on and on about how a company makes bad batteries. It all just spirals out of control because a lot of people just believe crap they read on the Internet. If you don't want to use them, I don't care, I use Samsung 25R's almost exclusively. It's not about loving Efest, it's about people slamming on a company and touting conjecture as fact. People that don't know any better who just read it in some thread then start to spread it, and now we have this clique of people who will just start trash talking every time purple Efests are mentioned. I'm not implying that anyone reading this is necessarily one of those people, but they exist and that is the cause of my annoyance. I really feel we should focus more on hard FACTS, something people in all corners of the Internet seem to ignore.

Also, I realize that Efest claimed the "continuous" on the 3100 mAh bats is 10 in that letter, I'm the one who originally found that letter and posted it on ECF. I'm just saying that for our purposes they seem to handle 20 amps decently and there's no way they are restricted to 6.4 amps. The whole 6.4 amp thing is a classic example of how one person says something that's complete conjecture, but now people that have never read that dude's tests swear up and down they are 6.4 amp cells. It's just idiotic.

Thanks for your response Wind.

I hear you and I raise my hand as probably being guilty of repeating information I have heard, read or discussed (on ECF) without fully researching every fact. I do try, and in this case with the efest batteries, I have done enough research to determine that I don't want to use those batteries.

With respect, you might want to step back and realize that you come across as just as entrenched in the pro-efest camp as some of those that are anti-efest. I see a lot of conjecture on your part and few (if any) verifiable facts regarding the subject. So your own post could be used to describe your own position.

There are some pretty reliable sources out there that have caught Efest not telling the truth about the performance limits of their batteries. You yourself posted evidence to this fact.

So based on that information, I choose not to use them and I recommend others don't either. Wrong or right, that's my thought process behind it.