EU Vapers Likely in for a Fight
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Kind of going off on a tangent here, but the article mentioned Snus, and the wiki entry for Snus has this tid bit:
Interesting... I wonder if harm reduction is actually HC's stance or if that snippet was just conjecture. If it's the former, you really gotta wonder why they take issue with e-cigs.
Interesting... I wonder if harm reduction is actually HC's stance or if that snippet was just conjecture. If it's the former, you really gotta wonder why they take issue with e-cigs.
I said in 2010 if the government wants you to vape, they will allow you to vape. <---- period. Although the UK has taken some very positive steps, they still come under the jurisdiction of the EU (Ottawa). This is something to be watched closely wrt to our FUTURE. As the EU governs both HC and the FDA whether we like it or not! We can sit here dream and salivate, Canada's vaping fututre still lies with the WHO. ECITA has made some strong steps forward and now are seriously worrying about the EUs decision. If the EU passes legislation against e-cigs, the Brits have no choice but to follow suit.
In closing I urge each and every Canadian to follow politics abroad, because these politics are forging the legislation wrt ecigs world wide let alone Canada.
It's not just the situation in the EU we have to worry about:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/244558-fda-may-soon-propose-regulation-could-ban-many-most-e-cigarette-products-eliminate-many-most-companies.html
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/legislation-news/244558-fda-may-soon-propose-regulation-could-ban-many-most-e-cigarette-products-eliminate-many-most-companies.html
Thanks for sharing this link. Everyone needs to take a few minutes, read what injustice is taking place, and sign the petitions.
I'm not following the EU connection to us. Snus is still available in North America and other places.
No its certainly not a good thing, and for us it does give HC more ammo against us, my point is just that we do not necessarily have to follow what the EU does.
Interesting to note that the EU does have a high smoking rate, and BT remains more powerful over there. I wonder who is calling these shots...
No its certainly not a good thing, and for us it does give HC more ammo against us, my point is just that we do not necessarily have to follow what the EU does.
Interesting to note that the EU does have a high smoking rate, and BT remains more powerful over there. I wonder who is calling these shots...
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I think the word minority is why HC stance is not harm reduction.
Yes this planet is getting to be pita to live on....
It looks to me like they are realizing how much of a cash cow e-cigs are and in a progressive, digital world with a product like e-cigs (and events like the Box Elder fiasco) it does need some control and regulation. The unfortunate thing about this kind of government regulation is that it will end up costing the end users a lot more to buy their supplies. In the paragraph he quoted in red it doesn't say anything about banning, just a bunch of stuff that will bring in tons of cash if producers and vendors are willing to pay for
and in turn the end users would be the one to ultimately pay the price. Obviously they have noticed the reduced tax income from cigarette sales and lack thereof from e-cigs, this cannot go unpunished.
What I can see happening is that there will be some corporate/political handshaking behind closed doors and the current suppliers of North American nicotine products (e-cigs and juice suppliers excluded) will become the only legal suppliers of e-cigs with nicotine in North America. Also likely is that we will not be able to buy a bottle of juice, only pre-filled carts... Just speculating though.
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Nope! If you read carefully none of them will be around with the exception of Totally Wicked and perhaps 1 or 2 others (costs associated with market authorization). Because e cigs have not received market authorization prior to Feb 2007 and hence not grandfathered in.
Under the provisions of Section 910, manufacturers/importers (of all tobacco products that weren't on the market prior to February 15, 2007) would need to submit an application to the FDA claiming that the product is "substantially equivalent" to another product that was already on the market prior to 2/15/2007, and the FDA would have sole discretion of determining whether the product is or isn't substantially equivalent to the other e-cigarette product.
Also, Section 911 would prohibit all e-cigarette manufacturers and importers from truthfully claiming that e-cigarettes are less hazardous than cigarettes, as such a claim would render the product as a "modified risk tobacco product". Section 911 requires any company desiring to make a MRTP claim to apply to the FDA to do so, and the FDA must approve the application.
Many other provisions in Chapter IX would basically require every e-cigarette manufacturer and importer to hire a team of lawyers just to comply with the currently pending provisions (as well as comply with regulations approved in the future)
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I meant to say current nicotine suppliers that are abiding by the current regulations/paying nicotine taxes etc. as in cigarette and patch/gum vendors. I edited my post to reflect my original thoughts.
Re: Feb 2007...this is an old argument, specific to the US, that has been addressed before...and it's not a concern for them either. E-cig technology & associated products (batts, atomizers, cartomizers, e-juice w/nic, etc etc) were all on the US market prior to February 2007. Today's vape-stuff is "substantially equivalent" - and if the FDA ever tried to say it wasn't, it would go to court.
And they'd lose. Badly.
Also note, one of the reasons that Judge Leon gave in his consistent rulings against the FDA, was that the FDA's plan was essentially a pretense at legitimate regulation - with the primary intended result to be the subsequent banning of vape-products. He said that was absolutely unacceptable & will never be acceptable. He called 'em on it: "You're not trying to regulate, you're just using the appearance of that to try & ban something without cause." Granted, they have some foolish things to deal with down there that we don't. But regardless...we are never gonna see the industry dissapear or even shrink there. I'm telling you people: the FDA will never in a million years be able to defeat vapers in the States.
In the UK and Canada, things are a lot better and will only get much, much better...thanks to ECITA in the UK, and now ECTA here. That's not mindless optimism talking; that's informed knowledge. This is a wonderful time for us right now in Canada - a time where good things that need to happen are finally happening. We are going to see much more freedom for Canadian vendors & vapers in the future - not less.
So to those in tin-foil hats: we are not going to cower in fear over nonsense conspiracy theories or paranoia. We will not surrender to pessimism, just because groundless opposition to vaping happens to exist in some corners. We will not embrace cynicism - it's pointless, leads nowhere & does nothing to change things for the better.
I'm not saying we shouldn't keep our eyes open as we proceed. Nor am I suggesting we not be mindful of the potential hurdles & parallels. But the only way to win in this sort of thing is when you believe it's possible & worthwhile. What's more...in our case, it actually is possible & worthwhile. Optimism in our case is well-founded! We are currently marching steady & on course to our desired victory in Canada; it is inevitable that we will take hold of it. The government will be happy - vendors will be happy - vapers will be happy. But don't take my word for it: wait & see. Watch it happen. Good things are coming.
Just my two cents.
Merry x-mas everyone!
Rachel
And they'd lose. Badly.
Also note, one of the reasons that Judge Leon gave in his consistent rulings against the FDA, was that the FDA's plan was essentially a pretense at legitimate regulation - with the primary intended result to be the subsequent banning of vape-products. He said that was absolutely unacceptable & will never be acceptable. He called 'em on it: "You're not trying to regulate, you're just using the appearance of that to try & ban something without cause." Granted, they have some foolish things to deal with down there that we don't. But regardless...we are never gonna see the industry dissapear or even shrink there. I'm telling you people: the FDA will never in a million years be able to defeat vapers in the States.
---
In the UK and Canada, things are a lot better and will only get much, much better...thanks to ECITA in the UK, and now ECTA here. That's not mindless optimism talking; that's informed knowledge. This is a wonderful time for us right now in Canada - a time where good things that need to happen are finally happening. We are going to see much more freedom for Canadian vendors & vapers in the future - not less.
So to those in tin-foil hats: we are not going to cower in fear over nonsense conspiracy theories or paranoia. We will not surrender to pessimism, just because groundless opposition to vaping happens to exist in some corners. We will not embrace cynicism - it's pointless, leads nowhere & does nothing to change things for the better.
I'm not saying we shouldn't keep our eyes open as we proceed. Nor am I suggesting we not be mindful of the potential hurdles & parallels. But the only way to win in this sort of thing is when you believe it's possible & worthwhile. What's more...in our case, it actually is possible & worthwhile. Optimism in our case is well-founded! We are currently marching steady & on course to our desired victory in Canada; it is inevitable that we will take hold of it. The government will be happy - vendors will be happy - vapers will be happy. But don't take my word for it: wait & see. Watch it happen. Good things are coming.
---
Just my two cents.
Rachel
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A new day, a new way! - Vaping: The real costs of bailout money
This is an example of what it is all about, we know it, but hate to admit it.
... back to wearing tinfoil hat
This is an example of what it is all about, we know it, but hate to admit it.
... back to wearing tinfoil hat
Puts tin foil hat on...
I admire your optimism, the fact that ECITA is worried and they are - is a clear indication of what lies ahead. If the EU bans ecigs Britain and the rest of the European countries will have no choice but to follow suit. Brussels can be compared to Ottawa - if per chance Ottawa bans e-cigs (or further ratifies their stance) the rest of the province have no choice, as all provinces and territories fall under Federal law.
One of the person reporting these concerns is one of the founding mbrs of ECITA. Sorry their credibility outweighs your optimism any day of the week and twice on Sunday.
Switched, I think the only thing we can predict, is that its not over until its over. We've seen this battle go on for some time now, and its moved in both directions.
The sky isn't going to fall tomorrow, nor are we going to have a solution then either. Maybe we'll lose in the end, maybe will win. I'll suggest a coin toss to predict the future.
For now all we can do, and I know we are all in agreement here, because its what we are all doing in our own ways, is put up the best fight we can. It could be exposing the truth and making everyone aware of what is going on behind the scenes as you are doing, or it could be working with the strength of an organization to form the foundation for a responsible industry.
I have gotten clever using quotes now
The sky is not about to fall tomorrow or next week. What is being discussed in Brussels is extremely relevant wrt the ecig industry around the World. I would like to share in your enthusiasm. I have been called pessimistic, narcistic and whatever else folks chose during their personal attacks - to include but not limited to a conspiracy theorist. No I am just a plain realist, I have to wear glass, but I wear clear lens glasses.
The Brits have more in place then the US and us, and if they are worried (ECITA) then it is cause for concern for us as well. That is all I am reporting, take it or leave it. I remember folks celebrated prematurely last year over a courts decision. The FDA has come back with some teeth. Whether or not they can win or not is immaterial at this time, to fight them is going to cost a whole lot of money. That is realism, not pessimism.
If the US is having a hard time fighting the legislation former and ongoing with their resources, how are we going to fair out with our limited resources. The latter can be construed as pessimism - I call it being realistic. My $0.02. You don't have to agree with me (please don't start now God forbid), but it is my opinion based on todays developing facts as we know them, not some pipe dream.
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I think getting the message out is a very important service.
As much as I hate to state this, as this product definitely deserves better... If all else fails, there is always the black market. You can get any substance you want there, so I see no reason why e-cigs couldn't be found there if all other options are forbidden, as sad as that may be. Or groups of people coming up with unique ways to get products in for personal use.
Sad but at least there is some comfort knowing that HC/FDA/WHO whatever will never completely win.
I agree with that idea - and wouldn't be surprised if that is the way the FDA wants to take this. It gives them a bit more control over what is marketed - makes ecigs more of a "NRT packaged" product.
The EU is a different bag of wool though. With so many nations all having their own laws and procedures - it's far more difficult for a single body to work through issues that will keep everyone's pockets filled and political ambitions intact.
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