Expensive vs cheap(inexpensive) juice delivery systems

[donnah]

I've been hearing about rebuildable juice delivery systems for awhile now. I was never interested because my boge cartos in tanks worked so well. Then I began noticing a stale flavor after awhile. It gradually got more and more pronounced, sooner and sooner. I thought it was my juice but then realized it was maybe filler I was tasting.. and I was getting more and more sensitive to it. I am not one to jump on new things, but I began to see more and more favorable reviews on the Vivi Nova. So I bought one, I figured it was cheap enough to try. I was after a cleaner flavor.

At first I wasn't too impressed. My first head kept tasting burnt. I figured out on the second head that I need to start at a super low voltage and work my way up. I found I couldn't vape my VN at the same voltages I vaped my boges. I didn't love it but liked it enough to keep using it. Then I watched a few videos on how to rewick the heads instead of just buying new heads. It looked simple enough to try. I ordered some premade coils from avidvapor to see what they looked like and if I could install them and see how they worked. So they came and I installed one. It was easy and it works! The first day it worked well but not much flavor. But the more I used it, the more the flavor came through. Now, a week or so later.. it's just awesome! The flavor is so clean and pure. I'm more than happy with it. I can't wait to see how I do making my own coils.

Now.. I'm looking at the other, more expensive devices like the odysseus and the penelope and more.. these things cost $122. Are they worth it?


I bought a provari back first of the year. I love it and it's been worth the money I spent, WELL worth the money, no regrets yada yada... But are expensive rebuildables on the same level as expensive APVs? A VN with 3 heads is $15 shipped. That's a long way from $122 for the penelope. I would love to have a penelope just for the sake of having one, something nice, but with all the expenses involved in getting my daughter back to college this week, I can't afford it now but maybe later. But is the expense justified? Would it save money in the long run? Give me your thoughts and/or experiences.

 

[MickeyRat]

There's a bit of a design problem with the Vivi Nova. It uses only resistance wire and it's tucked into the insulator on the battery end. If those wires get hot enough, you'll get that burned taste. There's a very long thread on rebuilding them that explains how rebuild one to fix it but, it's not for everyone.

I have a Penelope and I really like it. However, Smoketech just came out with a $15 rebuildable. I'll say right now that out of the box, it sucks. However, with very little effort, it can be modded into a genesis that's not bad at all. To do that though, you have to have a drill and you have to be able to oxidize a stainless mesh wick. You also have to wind your coil. It helps to be able to do a little soldering as well.

All of the above said, rebuildables aren't for everyone. Do you have an ohmmeter? Do you know how to use it? Are you comfortable with a steep learning curve involving a lot of trial and error while you fiddle with it and figure out the best wick materials and how to wind your coils etc? If the answer to any of these questions is no, you probably shouldn't step off into rebuildables.

 

[iamtumus]

try a phoenix rba...it's a middle of the road atty between vivi nova and ones like the penelope, but available for ~$15

 

[kritikal]

You don't neccesarily need a multimeter with rebuildables, even then, the OP has a ProVari which will do the job at testing resistance better than any multimeter. Once you're used to rebuilding, you don't need one. I have a couple of hybrids that I never test the resistance on. Also, you can tell when you have a short or hotspot. Sparks will fly, the coil will burn red at a hotspot and taste is a dead giveaway. So there's no real need.

Rebuildables that primarily use a silica wick, such as the Odysseus and Penelope are the easier ones to rebuild and a pleasure to vape. I own both and if you're in the market for a rebuildable, I reccomend them highly. Alternatively, you have the genesis rebuildables using a SS mesh wick. These can be a headache to begin with but once you get the hang of them they are excellent. It took me a couple of weeks to really get the hang of them and when I look back, I don't know what I did differently then to now. They perform best when held at a near horizontal angle while vaping. There's a lot of different things you can do with these (some you can do with silica, some not), my personal favourite being a twisted coil.

The way I see it, go for it, if you can spare the cash. If you don't like the vape or you just can't get the damn thing working, you can always sell it in the classifieds and make your money back with ease. Just be prepared for frustration, headaches and crying in the corner of a dark room in the fetal position, sucking your thumb, muttering short, hotspot, short...

 

[kritikal]

I forgot to mention, the expense is certainly worth it if for the upper market rebuildables. Just as long as you don't start collecting them. In a few months it will pay for itself and if you upkeep basic maintenance and care, it will last years.

 

[Butters78]

Donna, it's neat that you are at the same place I am. Remember I told ya I rebuilt a phoenix coil it was really easy and I'm usually bad with technical things. The phoenix is a great dripping atty for home that holds 10-15 drops. The vivi nova I had ended up being a v1. I should have the 2.5 in the mail today I'm going to rebuild. I cant afford it now but I plan on getting the DiD rebuildable or Zen and try out ss mesh. I can gene get the ss mesh and use it in the phoenix now to see if I like the flavor. Hell some people have used SS mesh in their novas.

 

[Butters78]

A PBusardo Video - Rochester Vape Meet & ZEN - YouTube

Skip to 31:20, the zen makes the provari look like a hybrid.. it's awesome.

 

[donnah]

Just be prepared for frustration, headaches and crying in the corner of a dark room in the fetal position, sucking your thumb, muttering short, hotspot, short...

LOL.. I believe I'll stick to rewicking my VN for now and keep watching and learning. I may try to save up for an odysseus later. I don't know that I want to mess with SS mesh but then again I usually end up messing with things I never though I'd want to mess with.

 

[kritikal]

No harm in waiting so you can learn. Knowledge goes a long way with rebuildables but then you get to a point where you can only further learn by taking the plunge. The longer you wait, the more that will be released anyhow, resulting in them being cheaper and easier to acquire.

The Odysseus and Penelope shouldn't result in hair loss, they're quite easy to rebuild. My comment was more so directed towards genesis atomisers. No real need to adjust your coil with silica. It appears that a silica rebuildable will be the best option for you, at least at the beginning of your rebuildable journey.

One more point on value for money. They have the potential to perform better than atties/cartos/clearos too. With the Ody & Penny I can get a similar vape to a dripping atty but with the benefit of a tank and a touch more vapour. With a genesis running a twisted coil, I can get more vapour than anything else and a stronger, cleaner flavour. To keep it relevant, I'm referring to everything at a similar power level.

 

[Ralikar]

I got my cotton yarn today for the Vivi and my Kanthal is otw. I'm going to try that route--there's some different methods for rewicking on youtube and I saw one that seemed fairly easy. I like the vivi in general--it's just so leak proof! I talked to a vet modder and he said there is a huge difference on the Vivi with a better wick and he uses it even on his Provari in addition to the high end systems... I'll let you know. I also changed my DIY juice--lower VG>>on the Vivi. I think the problem in the EC world is with setting personal limits. If you smoke it's your brand or nothing. Here it escalates: bats... vv bats... better vv mods... juice... better juice... DIY...Better DIY... Tank... better... high end. My twists are endgame enough for me. The Vivi doesn't leak and is a good (not great) fix--we'll see on rewicking. My simple DIY is cheap and good for me... I don't want it to escalate or it will never end! Gotvapes looks like their alpha product is gonna be new vivi wick/coil for sale and I'm sure the Vivi 3 will be out soon--there's only so much taste and flavor I can reasonably expect. It can ALWAYS get better-- I've drawn a line

I can't keep spending on EC stuff!

 

[donnah]

I got my cotton yarn today for the Vivi and my Kanthal is otw. I'm going to try that route--there's some different methods for rewicking on youtube and I saw one that seemed fairly easy. I like the vivi in general--it's just so leak proof! I talked to a vet modder and he said there is a huge difference on the Vivi with a better wick and he uses it even on his Provari in addition to the high end systems... I'll let you know. I also changed my DIY juice--lower VG>>on the Vivi. I think the problem in the EC world is with setting personal limits. If you smoke it's your brand or nothing. Here it escalates: bats... vv bats... better vv mods... juice... better juice... DIY...Better DIY... Tank... better... high end. My twists are endgame enough for me. The Vivi doesn't leak and is a good (not great) fix--we'll see on rewicking. My simple DIY is cheap and good for me... I don't want it to escalate or it will never end! Gotvapes looks like their alpha product is gonna be new vivi wick/coil for sale and I'm sure the Vivi 3 will be out soon--there's only so much taste and flavor I can reasonably expect. It can ALWAYS get better-- I've drawn a line

I can't keep spending on EC stuff!

Yea, I can't keep spending either! I got in some cotton wick today and I already have kanthal wire.. boiling the wick as I type. Let me know how yours turns out.

 

[wv2win]

There's a bit of a design problem with the Vivi Nova. It uses only resistance wire and it's tucked into the insulator on the battery end. If those wires get hot enough, you'll get that burned taste. There's a very long thread on rebuilding them that explains how rebuild one to fix it but, it's not for everyone.

I have a Penelope and I really like it. However, Smoketech just came out with a $15 rebuildable. I'll say right now that out of the box, it sucks. However, with very little effort, it can be modded into a genesis that's not bad at all. To do that though, you have to have a drill and you have to be able to oxidize a stainless mesh wick. You also have to wind your coil. It helps to be able to do a little soldering as well.

All of the above said, rebuildables aren't for everyone. Do you have an ohmmeter? Do you know how to use it? Are you comfortable with a steep learning curve involving a lot of trial and error while you fiddle with it and figure out the best wick materials and how to wind your coils etc? If the answer to any of these questions is no, you probably shouldn't step off into rebuildables.

You don't neccesarily need a multimeter with rebuildables, even then, the OP has a ProVari which will do the job at testing resistance better than any multimeter. Once you're used to rebuilding, you don't need one. I have a couple of hybrids that I never test the resistance on. Also, you can tell when you have a short or hotspot. Sparks will fly, the coil will burn red at a hotspot and taste is a dead giveaway. So there's no real need.

Rebuildables that primarily use a silica wick, such as the Odysseus and Penelope are the easier ones to rebuild and a pleasure to vape. I own both and if you're in the market for a rebuildable, I reccomend them highly. Alternatively, you have the genesis rebuildables using a SS mesh wick. These can be a headache to begin with but once you get the hang of them they are excellent. It took me a couple of weeks to really get the hang of them and when I look back, I don't know what I did differently then to now. They perform best when held at a near horizontal angle while vaping. There's a lot of different things you can do with these (some you can do with silica, some not), my personal favourite being a twisted coil.

The way I see it, go for it, if you can spare the cash. If you don't like the vape or you just can't get the damn thing working, you can always sell it in the classifieds and make your money back with ease. Just be prepared for frustration, headaches and crying in the corner of a dark room in the fetal position, sucking your thumb, muttering short, hotspot, short...

Thanks for these explanations. I've been toying with the idea of trying one of these. For me to go through this much trouble to vape, the difference in the quality of the vape would have to be a 100% better. I've read enough on ECF that tells me the technology is not there yet to make it so much better that it is worth all the trouble.

 

[MickeyRat]

I have a Penelope and one of the cheapie Smoketechs at the moment. The other problem with rebuildables is LOOOOONG delivery in a lot of cases. I have four different ones that I'll get one of these days. One of those is a cheapie Chinese model off Alibaba though. I've modded the smoketech into a genesis with a vertical SS wick. It vapes very well.

The Vivi Nova does vape a lot better once it's rebuilt. I use cotton yarn for a wick rather than silica. There's a long thread about silica and alternatives out there. The problem I have rebuilding a Vivi Nova is that it's really tricky to avoid shorting the positive wire. I've done it but, for me, it's an exercise in patience.