First Mech - Few questions about batteries, kicks, et al.

[Bubba]

Got my first mech yesterday, a Nemesis clone by hcigar. Since this is my first, I have a few questions. Right now I have 2 different batteries I'm thinking I'll be using in it: Efest IMR 18650 3.7V Li-Mn 2000 mah and an NCR18650B. Also am running an iClear30 @ 2.0 ohms on it for the moment. I will be rebuilding in the future but nothing sub-ohm.

So my questions are:

1. Either of these batteries should be good, considering the ohms used?

2. How do I keep from over-discharging these batteries? I've used them in regulated mods that will cut off when the battery voltage gets to a certain threshold. Since this is a mech, how do you determine when your battery reaches x.x volts?

3. Kick - would this solve question 2 above? Which version and why?

4. Fuse - I've read about these but they seem to be more for extreme vaping (sub-ohms, 1.21 jig a watts, etc). Recommended?


Thanks in advance for all the help on this!

 

[jpcwon]

A kick will tell you when it's time to charge your battery, which is nice. Basically once your battery gets down to 3.4-3.3 volts (somwhere around there), the kick will start firing intermittently. That's when you know it's time to recharge.

Even with the Kick, I still use a DMM (digital multi-meter)to check the battery voltage...I try to not let it drop below 3.6 volts if I can help it...

The Efest battery will work perfectly for what you're planning on doing (non-subohm)...I have some NCR18650B's, but I have never used them in a mech so I can't comment on that.....

 

[Bubba]

A kick will tell you when it's time to charge your battery, which is nice. Basically once your battery gets down to 3.4-3.3 volts (somwhere around there), the kick will start firing intermittently. That's when you know it's time to recharge.

Even with the Kick, I still use a DMM (digital multi-meter)to check the battery voltage...I try to not let it drop below 3.6 volts if I can help it...

OK so do you tote a multi meter around? Trying to figure out how you'd know without it or a kick. I'm thinking of being out somewhere or at work where you can't haul out a meter to test it. How does that work? I'm guessing that after a while you get a pretty good idea of how long your battery will last on an average day.

Also, what happens if it goes below the 3.6v threshold? Is that something you set for yourself just to be safe, or does stuff start happening after that?

 

[TheDistinguishedGentleman]

At 2 ohms you should be getting around four hours of trigger time before running out of power on a 2000mah battery. The power curve on batteries drops very sharply from 4.2v to 3.7v fresh off the charger, then decreases very slowly until you get to the end of the charge, then drops off sharply again. You'll notice your first few hit are really strong before the battery gets "in its groove", and then you shouldn't notice a whole lot of difference until you hit the end of your charge. A multi meter is the only guaranteed way to know exactly how much charge is left in your battery, but if you change em out when you notice the second drop in performance, you should be in good shape. You'll lose a few charge cycles in the end, but as long as you are using a good charger, it will be negligible.

 

[jpcwon]

OK so do you tote a multi meter around? Trying to figure out how you'd know without it or a kick. I'm thinking of being out somewhere or at work where you can't haul out a meter to test it. How does that work? I'm guessing that after a while you get a pretty good idea of how long your battery will last on an average day.

Also, what happens if it goes below the 3.6v threshold? Is that something you set for yourself just to be safe, or does stuff start happening after that?

LOL actually yeah! Well I use a multimeter all day here at work (I am a medical device service engineer), so checking my battery voltage is easy. Plus I also have one at home...

Yeah, the 3.6V thing is just sort of something I set for myself just to be safe. As Distinguished Gentleman said, your battery will start off at around 4.1-4.2V, then drop quickly to around 3.7-3.8. It should then stay there for a while. Once it drops below 3.6V I charge them just in case....

 

[Bubba]

So, would a kick resolve this voltage drop? If so, what's the trade-off? This thing vapes like crazy with a new battery - I'm starting to understand why so many use mechs, lol

 

[TheDistinguishedGentleman]

The kick turns your mech into a regulated device. It will stabilize your battery output throughout the batteries life, so you get consistent hits beginning to end. It will effect battery life depending on how its set. If set above 3.7v, you will get shorter than mech life, lower than 3.7v and you will get extended run time vs mech. I enjoy the "personality" that mechs have regarding battery performance, some folks don't.

 

[MorpheusPA]

So, would a kick resolve this voltage drop? If so, what's the trade-off? This thing vapes like crazy with a new battery - I'm starting to understand why so many use mechs, lol

A Kick resolves the voltage drop at the cost of:

1) Turning your mech into a moderated device. Which may not really be a cost depending on how you think about it.
2) Using a little energy all on its own to run, so it reduces efficiency.
3) Limiting the ohm ratings you can use in your atomizer.

Really, it's a good little device. It'll keep you from running your battery too low, protects against shorts, regulates output, and generally makes the mech experience a lot more like a mod--but using a device you can move from mech to mech so you only ever need one.

A lot of people use mechs to sub-ohm. I have one just because of the simplicity of operation. There's nothing on my mech I can't fix all by myself. However, most of the time I use a regulated device as I tend to prefer them.

 

[Baditude]

So, would a kick resolve this voltage drop? If so, what's the trade-off? This thing vapes like crazy with a new battery - I'm starting to understand why so many use mechs, lol

Besides adding protection circuitry to a mechanical, a Kick's main function in a mechanical is regulation of the voltage. It will keep the voltage output to the setting that you set from the beginning of a fully charged battery until it will no longer fire the coil. It does this with using slightly more power from the battery.

At 2 ohms you should be getting around four hours of trigger time before running out of power on a 2000mah battery.

Really? Depending upon the mod and topper, I can easily get 1 day (Silver Bullet with a 2.0 ohm carto) to 2 days (VMod with a 2.0 ohm atomizer) with an AW 18650 IMR 2000 mAh battery.

Fuse - I've read about these but they seem to be more for extreme vaping (sub-ohms, 1.21 jig a watts, etc). Recommended?

I don't use these in my mechanical mods because I use safe chemistry batteries (AW 18650 IMR 2000mAh). I don't trust the IC of protected ICR batteries having had one blow up in my first mechanical. If you plan to use ICR batteries in a mechanical mod which has no built-in protection like a VV regulated mod has, I'd suggest using a Vape Safe Mod Fuse.

 

[athousandyears]

Thanks Bubba for starting this thread. I've just ordered my first mech mod and had some of the same questions. Good info everyone!

 

[Bubba]

I don't use these in my mechanical mods because I use safe chemistry batteries (AW 18650 IMR 2000mAh). I don't trust the IC of protected ICR batteries having had one blow up in my first mechanical. If you plan to use ICR batteries in a mechanical mod which has no built-in protection like a VV regulated mod has, I'd suggest using a Vape Safe Mod Fuse.

OK quick follow up - both batteries I plan on using are listed on your blog so I should be good to go to use them without a fuse? Also, what about over discharging them? With no kick or multimeter, how big of a concern is it? From what I've read it seems like I'll know when it starts to really taper off and time to change - but I worry about the "just in case" scenarios.

Also, the stuff on your blog is really helpful - thanks for posting it. I've consulted it several times today alone

 

[TheDistinguishedGentleman]

Really? Depending upon the mod and topper, I can easily get 1 day (Silver Bullet with a 2.0 ohm carto) to 2 days (VMod with a 2.0 ohm atomizer) with an AW 18650 IMR 2000 mAh battery.

I should clarify. Four hours of trigger time, meaning you should be able to fire the atomizer for four hours continuously. I go through a 2000mah in about a day, at 1ohm. Chain vapers will get less, if you're only puffing a few times an hour, you could see several days before needing a charge. Keep in mind at 1 ohm, 1000mah = 1 hour of run time in a perfect scenario. Voltage drop, temperature, built in resistance, and several other factors influence this, so real world numbers will be slighty less than optimal.

 

[Baditude]

OK quick follow up - both batteries I plan on using are listed on your blog so I should be good to go to use them without a fuse? Also, what about over discharging them? With no kick or multimeter, how big of a concern is it? From what I've read it seems like I'll know when it starts to really taper off and time to change - but I worry about the "just in case" scenarios.

Also, the stuff on your blog is really helpful - thanks for posting it. I've consulted it several times today alone

All the batteries listed in my blog are high-drain, safe-chemistry batteries, either IMR or hybrid.

If using regular factory-made coils (cartos or clearos), you don't have to worry about over-discharging a battery. It will just stop firing the coil when the voltage drops to 3.4 - 3.5 volts due to not enough voltage left.

The people who need to worry about over-draining a battery are those using rebuildable coils in the sub-ohm range. These can pull many more amps from the battery than factory-made coils.

 

[Bubba]

All the batteries listed in my blog are high-drain, safe-chemistry batteries, either IMR or hybrid.

If using regular factory-made coils (cartos or clearos), you don't have to worry about over-discharging a battery. It will just stop firing the coil when the voltage drops to 3.4 - 3.5 volts due to not enough voltage left.

The people who need to worry about over-draining a battery are those using rebuildable coils in the sub-ohm range. These can pull many more amps from the battery than factory-made coils.

OK so even when I start rebuilding I'll still be OK as long as I stay about where I am now in the ohms range of 1.8 - 2.2+

Thanks!

 

[MorpheusPA]

OK so even when I start rebuilding I'll still be OK as long as I stay about where I am now in the ohms range of 1.8 - 2.2+

Thanks!

Mostly, yes. It's really wise to check your battery at first until you get a good feel for when the voltage is about to fall off the cliff.

We've had people with entirely normal-range atomizers draining batteries into the 2.7 V range by accident. That can be a problem.

The excess material at the cathode of the battery begins to erode at 3 volts--at that point, charging becomes a slightly more touchy prospect than it was at normal voltage (but not that much). By 2.5 V the material is severely eroded and most standard chargers won't charge the battery (some smart chargers will by trickling power slowly until the voltage rises, at which point the cathode is re-plated and the battery can be charged normally).

Go too much lower and the material is gone, the battery is dead, and essentially either cannot be charged or it would be very dangerous to try. Your smart charger may still attempt it, but personally I consider it too much risk (I am, however, very careful with batteries).

Each drop too low shortens battery life as well and reduces the capacity of the battery, so from a purely economic standpoint it's not a good idea.