Five Pawns now on ECF

[chanelvaps]

While the Smoke Free Alternatives Trade Association is a worthy cause, IF they had answers that could squelch the negativity their brand is receiving due to recent revelations that their juice is highly unsafe, they should take a minute to answer a few questions that have been asked of them. Not answering makes them look guilty.

 

[Pinggolfer]

A few questions?

 

[SeniorBoy]

@YoursTruli - With respect to your previous post. I'm not sure if you are aware of the "hit" which 5P took from ECTA (The Electronic Cigarette Trade Association of Canada). They instructed their 50 members with a: "stop sale" on five flavors, "disclosure" on three flavors, and "no action" on three flavors. IMHO, that's a significant "hit".

BTW to ALL, 5P just announced a new flavor called "Symmetry Six". It won't be long before we can hopefully read the test results for this juice prior to release.



More later on my previous post which contained: "...They can recover. It will take some work and I hope they do!"

 

[YoursTruli]

@YoursTruli - With respect to your previous post. I'm not sure if you are aware of the "hit" which 5P took from ECTA (The Electronic Cigarette Trade Association of ). They instructed their 50 members with a: "stop sale" on five flavors, "disclosure" on three flavors, and "no action" on three flavors. IMHO, that's a significant "hit".

BTW to ALL, 5P just announced a new flavor called "Symmetry Six". It won't be long before we can hopefully read the test results for this juice prior to release.



More later on my previous post which contained: "...They can recover. It will take some work and I hope they do!"

....out of over 1,500 retail locations across 45 countries and growing. I would not call 50 retailers in Canada refusing to sell 5 flavors out of their entire line (I am guessing they are still selling the rest of the line) a significant hit by any stretch especially when they are launching new line that will more then fill that tiny gap.

 

[SeniorBoy]

The only thing they innovated was stealing the cardboard tube and prestige status packaging and marketing of the high end scotch market and applying it to ejuice.

Point taken on my use of the word "tragedy". You make some valid arguments which I understand are held by some members. We may have to agree to disagree on your use of the word "stealing" as I bolded above. It's unfair in this case. It's about "inspiration" from the high end spirits industry. A common practice in the creative process. The best mixolagists I have ever met or tasted draw their inspiration from the kitchen. Their not stealing Apple Pie as an example. Only using it's notes/taste as inspiration for their ejuice.

I'm also a huge fan of caoch W and my all time fav is:

“Never make excuses. Your friends don't need them and your foes won't believe them.”

― John Wooden, Wooden: A Lifetime of Observations and Reflections On and Off the Court
Source

Respectfully, I stand by my previous post: "They can recover. It will take some work and I hope they do!" HOWEVER, please don't assume (if you are) that I won't be silently watching, analyzing, researching, and reaching out to others including 5P privately. For me it's about "actions" and although I still hope they can recover, given enough time, actions speak louder than words. I guarantee you that I won't be silent if 5P fails to continue to take corrective actions.

 

[badinfluence357]

All this bs thats going on is really affecting 5ps the most. Some bm shops I've been to in NYC have taken 5p of the shelves and hidden them under the counter and some just dont sale it anymore. Some have practily given away the leftover stock at 10 to 15 dollars a bottle just to get rid of it. Its sad because 5p is not the only vendor that has had hi levels of dp/ap in their ejuice. it seems they're being attacked the most because their prices are higher then most juice vendors.

I ask some bm shop owners why they dont carry 5p and the response i got was, they haven't put out anything new in five years and they're to expensive. One employee at Gotham Vapes made a comment to another "yeah get the popcorn lungs". I found the comment stupid because i know for sure that other ejuices they carried are on that list that C9 put out a while back.

This is what i got from them, It seems ok to sale other liquids that have ap/dp because they're cheeper than 5P. It seems like they turned a blind eye to the other juices and singled out 5p just because they cant turn a larger profit. Now there's a ton of ejuice vendors using the same barrel aging methods that 5p used to boost up sales but its just not the same taste and quality.
One bm vendor even said to me he had a 5p clone that was good. I looked at him and wondered what his diy blend had inside but the truth was i just didnt know...

With that said, i know theres alot of ejuice vendors out there selling eliquids with high levels of dp/ap but arent disclosing the info or testing there liquids. I just think its unfair to single out one vendor knowing that the C9 list had 20+ eliquids with high levels of dp/ap. Why just target 5ps? Whats the motive?

 

[Racehorse]

I just think its unfair to single out one vendor knowing that the C9 list had 20+ eliquids with high levels of dp/ap. Why just target 5ps? Whats the motive?

Keep in mind, there's been plenty of eliquid vendors who have disclosed test results......and there was no fallout, at all.

I think the key is that, they didn't try to hide, argue, spin, or otherwise bring conflict into the equation.

suicide bunny and 5P did though.

It's not about the diketones, it's about the way their presence in ejuice is being handled by the vendor.

My vendor has a few ejuices that tested positive for diketones. They have been very kind about making sure customers who don't want it can get something else from their line, and have embarked on re-testing and / or reformulating the ones that have diketones. They didn't sue anybody for posting the results on forums, etc.

Do you see the difference?

Senior Boy's quote from John Wooden is appropo


That said, I'm sure everyone will move on from this unfortunate series of events, and perhaps a new line with fresh test results will accomplsih that.

 

[Mazinny]

All this bs thats going on is really affecting 5ps the most. Some bm shops I've been to in NYC have taken 5p of the shelves and hidden them under the counter and some just dont sale it anymore. Some have practily given away the leftover stock at 10 to 15 dollars a bottle just to get rid of it. Its sad because 5p is not the only vendor that has had hi levels of dp/ap in their ejuice. it seems they're being attacked the most because their prices are higher then most juice vendors.

I ask some bm shop owners why they dont carry 5p and the response i got was, they haven't put out anything new in five years and they're to expensive. One employee at Gotham Vapes made a comment to another "yeah get the popcorn lungs". I found the comment stupid because i know for sure that other ejuices they carried are on that list that C9 put out a while back.

This is what i got from them, It seems ok to sale other liquids that have ap/dp because they're cheeper than 5P. It seems like they turned a blind eye to the other juices and singled out 5p just because they cant turn a larger profit. Now there's a ton of ejuice vendors using the same barrel aging methods that 5p used to boost up sales but its just not the same taste and quality.
One bm vendor even said to me he had a 5p clone that was good. I looked at him and wondered what his diy blend had inside but the truth was i just didnt know...

With that said, i know theres alot of ejuice vendors out there selling eliquids with high levels of dp/ap but arent disclosing the info or testing there liquids. I just think its unfair to single out one vendor knowing that the C9 list had 20+ eliquids with high levels of dp/ap. Why just target 5ps? Whats the motive?

I'm not sure how much 5P is hurting, financially or reputation-wise , but they really should accept some responsibility for the fall-out. They announced to the community in September of last year that they will publish their results by the end of the month. They didn't. No one really pressed them on it to be sure, perhaps because they were busy with Suicide Bunny at the time. And they didn't utter another word on the topic until their hand was forced.

When Cloud 9 published their results, they issued a C&D not only against C9 but also against a UK vapers forum and tried to stifle discussion on the issue. They came across as bullies imo and not leaders. They then published the ( imo ) ill-advised and incoherent blog-post accusing C9 of fraud and disputing their results, at the same time stating that the level of diketones in their own tests are fine ( without explaining how they arrived at this conclusion and what the acceptable level for diketones are according to their own research ).

You mentioned the vendors testing positive in Vaporshark testing, but as far as i know only one of them ( Cyclops ) disputed the results and none of them lawyered up. And they are still selling their liquid on Vaporsharks site. And some of them have stated that they will be reformulating.

I think the reason 5p is bearing the brunt of the backlash is that they showed very little humility during the whole episode. As if one can declare themselves leaders of the industry, and not have to earn the mantle.

I am happy that they are being more transparent as far as their testing goes, and if they change course in their public relations strategy, i do believe that they can recover from all this, maybe not immediately but in due course.

 

[chanelvaps]

I think the key is that, they didn't try to hide, argue, spin, or otherwise bring conflict into the equation.

Exactly!

 

[The Ocelot]

I think you've got your groups a little wrong there, Steve. Occupiers aren't what I would think of as vape crowd really. A lot of the stuff I've seen on vape convention videos and photos is like one step above wet T shirt contest type stuff. Hardly the politically/socially/economically aware crowd like occupiers.

But no, I don't think this is ever going to look "mainstream":

Did you ever read my blog on this topic?

Where is our publicist?

 

[The Ocelot]

Its just that I'd like to see "myself" reflected in there somewhere, and most people I know personally who vape....you know, a healthy athletic type who hikes and wears merrell boots and the north face rainjackets, has dogs, an outdoor lifestyle.

Actually, there is a company called E-Lites in the UK that has done some interesting commercials. Unfortunately, they sell cig-a-likes, but their ad campaign was pretty innovative. Whether that translated into sales, I don't know.

This is 1 of 2 videos featuring a young woman treking in Alaska by dogsled:

 

[Coldrake]

A question to ponder. If a vendor doesn't reply to emails concerning test reports. Are they lying or just don't care?

Here's another question to ponder. What if it's neither? There are more possible reasons than those for them not replying.

 

[Pinggolfer]

Here's another question to ponder. What if it's neither? There are more possible reasons than those for them not replying.

What might they be?

I hope those fires get under control real fast.