Flavor Spoilage? Help!

[NoLeak]

I not new to DIY but I am new to flavors. I've been DIY'ing pure menthol juice for quite a while now. I'm sick of death of pure menthol so I order a ton of flavors. A day later I read a post that said most flavors go bad in 6 months. Doh! All the flavors listed below are currently on their way to my house. Yea...it's a lot. I'll never make it though all of them in 6 months.

I'm hoping that some flavors "spoil" more or less quickly than others. I figure I can use the fast spoilers first and save the slow spoilers for last. Can you all give me some pointers on which flavors go bad the quickest and which ones might last longer? Here's my list. The majority, if not all, are made by The Flavor Apprentice. All were purchased from Wizard Labs.

555 Type DK Tobacco Flavor Concentrate
Absinthe Flavor Concentrate 
Apple Candy Flavor Concentrate 
Apple Flavor Concentrate 
Bacon Flavor Concentrate 
Banana Creme Flavor Concentrate 
Bittersweet Chocolate Flavor Concentrate 
Black Cherry Flavor Concentrate 
Black Currant Flavor Concentrate 
Black Honey Tobacco Flavor Concentrate 
Black Tea Flavor Concentrate 
Blueberry Candy Flavor Concentrate 
Boysenberry Flavor Concentrate 
Brandy Flavor Concentrate 
Bubblegum Flavor Concentrate 
Cantaloupe Flavor Concentrate 
Cappuccino Flavor Concentrate 
Chai Tea Flavor Concentrate 
Champagne PG Flavor Concentrate 
Chocolate Flavor Concentrate 
Cinnamon Red Hots Candy Flavor Concentrate 
Cinnamon Spice Flavor Concentrate 
Clove Flavor Concentrate 
Coconut Candy Flavor Concentrate 
Coffee Flavor Concentrate 
Commercial Tobacco Flavor Concentrate 
Cotton Candy Flavor Concentrate 
County Fair Cotton Candy Flavor Concentrate 
Cranberry Flavor Concentrate 
Creme de Menthe Flavor Concentrate 
Dill Pickle Flavor Concentrate 
Dragon Fruit Flavor Concentrate 
Earl Grey Tea Flavor Concentrate 
Eggnog Flavor Concentrate (LA) 
English Toffee Flavor 
Ethyl Maltol Crystals 
Granny Smith Flavor Concentrate 
Grape Flavor Concentrate 
Green Tea Flavor Concentrate 
Guava Flavor Concentrate 
Hawaiian Tropical Punch Flavor Concentrate 
Honey Clover Flavor Concentrate (LA) 
Horchata Flavor Concentrate 
Horehound Flavor Concentrate 
Huckleberry Flavor Concentrate 
Hypnotica Flavor Concentrate 
Jalapeno Flavor Concentrate 
Juicy Fruit Flavor Concentrate 
Kentucky Bourbon Flavor Concentrate 
Kiwi Flavor Concentrate	FLAV-KIWI 
Lemon Flavor Concentrate 
Lemon Lime Flavor Concentrate 
Lychee Flavor Concentrate 
Maraschino Cherry (PG) Flavor 
Maraschino Cherry Flavor Concentrate 
Marshmallow Flavor Concentrate 
Melon Flavor Concentrate 
Milk Chocolate Flavor Concentrate 
Mint Chocolate Chip Flavor Concentrate 
Mtn Dew Flavor Concentrate 
Papaya Flavor Concentrate 
Pear Flavor Concentrate	FLAV-PEAR 
Pina Colada Flavor Concentrate 
Pistachio Flavor Concentrate 
Pizza Flavor Concentrate 
Plum PG Flavor Concentrate 
Pomegranate Flavor Concentrate 
Pralines & Cream Flavor Concentrate 
Quince Flavor Concentrate 
Raspberry Flavor Concentrate 
Raspberry Sweet Flavor Concentrate 
Red Bullish Flavor Concentrate 
Red Licorice Flavor Concentrate (LA) 
Root Beer Flavor Concentrate 
RY4 Type-1 Flavor Concentrate 
Salt Water Taffy Flavor Concentrate 
Smooth Flavor (PG) Concentrate 
Sour 20% Flavor Concentrate 
Spearmint Flavor Concentrate 
Strawberry Flavor Concentrate 
Strawberry Kiwi Flavor Concentrate 
Toasted Marshmallow Flavor Concentrate 
Tutti-Frutti Flavor Concentrate 
Vanilla Bourbon Flavor Concentrate 
Vanilla Butternut Flavor Concentrate 
Wintergreen Flavor Concentrate

 

[mjradik]

I haven’t really heard of flavors spoiling in 6 months. I’ve been DIY for 8+ months now. I have some 8 month old flavors from TPA, only because I wasn’t a fan of them in the beginning. I tried them about a month ago, and still wasn’t a fan, but they didn’t taste any worse than when I had them 8 months ago.

However, I did find some old DIY juice stuck in the back of my drawer made up 8+ months ago I forgot about. I tried it out. The flavor was very strong, maybe because of an 8 month steeping time. But it didn’t taste bad or spoiled. I would email TPA directly (Linda), and see what her recommended usage times are. She would give you the best answer. I thought I remember reading somewhere, 1 year, but I could be wrong. Maybe storing the flavors in the refrigerator would make them last longer? I dunno.

 

[salemgold]

I have been DIYing for almost two years and have not had flavors spoil. I have had some of my FA flavors for 1.5 years and they are still good. The PA fruits may lose flavor but I have not had them spoil.

 

[SlowTalker]

Maybe storing the flavors in the refrigerator would make them last longer? I dunno.

Ask the manufacturer before putting any flavor in the fridge. I know of one supplier whose shipment was destroyed because it was exposed to the cold (lower than 40 degrees).

 

[Dee74]

Hope we can get some good answers here, I too was wondering about putting them in the fridge. Some of mine are about a year old and was just thinking about this yesterday.

 

[hairball]

I could see them getting a little weak but not spoil especially if they are suspended in pg or alcohol....both will kill bacteria. I might be wrong but I have some Lorann's that is over a year old, never opened until recently when I decided to give DIY'ing another try, and they are fine flavorwise.

 

[NoLeak]

I took mjradik's advice and wrote to TPA. This is what they had to say:

That's a bit of a complicated question, but let's see if I can help. The flavors don't really "spoil" in the sense of breaking down or getting rancid. So they don't really have an "expiration date" in the sense that food does, as long as they're in a sealed container. There are a couple things to watch out for, though.

Firstly, for long term storage, it's generally recommended to switch to glass containers. The plastic used in our jugs is designed to be non-reactive, but over long periods of time, glass is safer. These flavors aren't sensitive to light, so don't worry about finding a dark place.

What does tend to happen is partial evaporation- smaller, more volatile molecules in the liquid will escape faster when the container is opened- over time, this can change the proportions of the mix. If you're going to be opening the container frequently, it's safest to have the flavor be cool before opening. Heat will make it more volatile.

Otherwise, there's no need for refridgeration. It's probably best to keep it out of excessively sunny and hot places, but generally the flavors are stable and safe. I believe that the common, written shelf life is 1 year, but this is not a strict or exact figure.

This is generally true for all flavors, but those with small, volatile compounds will shift the most quickly. These tend to be "top" notes, the floral/sweet/fruity flavors that quickly hit your nose first after opening.

Kudos to Bill for taking the time to provide such a detailed answer. I believe Wizard Labs ships flavors in glass vials so I should be in good shape as long as I don't open each flavor too many times. I'll also try to use the top notes first.

 

[hairball]

I took mjradik's advice and wrote to TPA. This is what they had to say:



Kudos to Bill for taking the time to provide such a detailed answer. I believe Wizard Labs ships flavors in glass vials so I should be in good shape as long as I don't open each flavor too many times. I'll also try to use the top notes first.

I wonder if transfering them to amber glass euro droppers would be best? They only have a tiny hole that you can insert a syringe for extraction. At least it's worth the money saved to invest in some of them since air is the culprit for degrading the flavors. Plus they can be reused.

 

[buffaloguy]

Ive had some of the euro droppers and I find them to be a pain to use syringes with. However there is another solution. I havent ordered any but I did see these on the myfeeedomsmokes site: Pierceable Screw Caps - MyFreedomSmokes.com

Its the only vendor Ive seen carry them to date.

 

[hairball]

Ive had some of the euro droppers and I find them to be a pain to use syringes with. However there is another solution. I havent ordered any but I did see these on the myfeeedomsmokes site: Pierceable Screw Caps - MyFreedomSmokes.com

Its the only vendor Ive seen carry them to date.

Yet I've never had any problems using the euro droppers with a syringe. Infact, that's what I store my nic in in the freezer.

I don't know about those caps. I would think over time, they would get weak and also they would allow too much air into the bottle.

 

[Kurt]

The euro droppers that come with the 50 mL amber bottles also fit TPAs 15 mL glass bottles. Many of my TPA flavors are "euroed" this way. Not so much for evaporation issues, but the possibility of spilling one of those bottles when open, as well as syringe ease.

I agree with Linda: there is nothing to "go bad" in these flavors. Extract flavors might be a different matter, however, depending on the amount of bio-material in them from the extraction. I've no data on these. All the flavors I have a simply solutions of flavor compounds, not extracts, which can be considerably more complex in nature.

 

[salemgold]

That is good to know, Kurt. I use the 50 ml amber with euro droppers to freeze and store my nicotine with.

 

[Kurt]

Flavorings will not spoil. There is nothing for bacteria to eat (no proteins, sugars, biomolecules, etc). They are just simple compounds that taste and smell a certain way.

That said, there are certain rare instances where a flavored vaping juice will go bad, but it is rare. A couple years ago one of the moderators here reported that several of his Johnson Creek juices, which had been stored still sealed in the fridge for 6 months, had turned sour and nasty/funky tasting. It was never definitively deduced as to why this had happened, but I suspect that some flavor esters had hydrolyzed (reacted with water that was also in the juice). This would lead to two hydrolysis products: an organic acid (sour, vomit-like taste) and an organic alcohol (probably bigger than ethanol PGA, which would taste/smell like "wet dog" or body odor). Perhaps there was some citric acid or ascorbic acid present in the juice to give a sour note to a fruit juice, and this could catalyze the hydrolysis. We never actually proved this, so it is speculation, but the tastes and smells of the old juice pointed to this IMHO.

This all said, I have never had this happen to me, and I thin with distilled water...but then I do not vape fruit juices. Also, I have not heard of this happening with any other commercial e-juice. And it is possible that they juices were not good in the first place, due to mistakes in production. This was very early on, and Johnson Creek was one of the few USA-made flavored juices at the time. Also, and my memory might be wrong here on the details, but JC had a run-in with the FDA over hygiene issues, or something related back when the FDA was going after anyone they wanted...so perhaps there were some problems in their juice production.

Flavored juices I have made and let sit for months (at room temp, I do not fridge-store my DIYs) most of the time do not change, or else they fade, especially the more prominent tones. Lorann Bavarian Cream in a juice will become a bit soapy and less pleasant, which indicates some sort of reaction has taken place in small amounts. Capella Double Chocolate will fade over time, as does Lorann Cheesecake.

But then I generally only make what I need for a few weeks fresh, vape that, then make more. Long gone are the days of spending an evening making 6 mL bottles of everything I order. I found I could not vape them up before they would fade...if I liked the flavors at all. These days I vape mostly unflavored, partially due to the fact that flavor inhalation is still quite an uncertainty, I only like a handful of flavors, and at work I do not want to be asked why my office smells like I'm baking cookies (Fact: pretty much all flavored juices DO smell, and sometimes very strongly!)

I think the majority of vendors that sell their own juices simply store them sealed on a shelf at room temp until they are shipped. I may be wrong on that with some vendors, but the ones I know do this.

 

[Kurt]

As an addendum, stevia sweetener can go bad in a juice. Unlike splenda, which is a pretty simple sugar molecule analog, stevia is a biomolecule, and while it is not bacteria food, it can decompose into rather unpleasant tasting compounds. For this reason, I believe, people have had rather mixed results using it, and I think coil heat is the a factor in this decomp. Many have reported the wet dog taste, but whether it is decomp in the juice over time, or coil heat causing the decomp remains to be seen. I have no wish to vape it, since while it is a "natural" sweetener, inhalation of it, or its decomp products, has not been studied, and I do not wish to make my lungs the experiment.

BTW, while splenda is considered "safe" by the FDA, it is a chloro-carbon, and these have been shown to cause liver damage or worse. Besides the FDA still allows the neurotoxin aspartame to be used, and ubiquitously, regardless of the mountains of data strongly refuting its safety.

DO NOT USE ASPARTAME IN A DIY!!! Coil heat will cause it to decompose and produce methanol in the vapor, which attacks the brain and ocular system. Sweetening with aspartame in ANYTHING is a bad idea, but in a DIY it is really bad.