Hi guys and girls, I know there is a DIY forum but I can't post there yet. I bought 30 flavors from Flavor west thinking I can put in a little of this and a little of that. I have just been trying the single flavors. For example, I tried Butterscotch at 10 percent. I can get it to taste like butterscotch kind of haha. It just isn't very rich in flavor. I tried mango and it was horrible at 10 percent, I also tried orange at 10 percent. None of it tastes like something you would buy from a shop. I would like to make my own e-liquid mostly for fun but I want to be able to use it so it isn't so expensive to make. I even bought a Sonic Jewelry cleaner because I heard that helps with the steeping. Any idea's would be great. ooooh also, I have been doing recipe's off of the program ejuice-me-up. Other people think these are great but I am not getting much luck. Is it the flavorings from Flavor West that isn't great or should I be adding sweetener even though it doesn't say to?
Flavors of my juices for DIY are horrible...How do I improve
- Thread starter Absolem
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well when it comes to most flavors less is usually more then there is aging some juices need plenty of time to develop.
I can tell you from experience I have a caramel/butterscotch blend and I have to use 2% for 2 of the 3 flavors then let it sit at least 2 weeks minimum. and I do several fruit flavors that never go over 5%. then theres my ry4 and juicy fruit at 10-12%. sometimes it can be difficult to find just the right balance betwen too much and not enough.
the best thing to do is start very light in very small batches ( i do 10 ml when trying something out) and add more later if needed
there is also a chance the flavors may not be strong or good either, never used flavor west so I cannot help there.
I can tell you from experience I have a caramel/butterscotch blend and I have to use 2% for 2 of the 3 flavors then let it sit at least 2 weeks minimum. and I do several fruit flavors that never go over 5%. then theres my ry4 and juicy fruit at 10-12%. sometimes it can be difficult to find just the right balance betwen too much and not enough.
the best thing to do is start very light in very small batches ( i do 10 ml when trying something out) and add more later if needed
there is also a chance the flavors may not be strong or good either, never used flavor west so I cannot help there.
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=[ Yeah thanks for the help guys. That is what I have been doing. I make a little and wait 2 weeks for the result. It seems way too long to determine if it is a decent flavor or not considering I am starting from scratch on everything. The Ultrasonic cleaner doesn't seem to do anything for me. Wish there was a better way to speed things up so I can taste actual flavor. Would you trust recipe's on that program I use? Ejuice Me Up. I assume people like those recipe's and that is why they are on there. Are there any other great places for good recipe's
Welcome Absolem,
oops...was going to tell you to check the DIY sub-forum here at ECF, but I see you have already been there
oops...was going to tell you to check the DIY sub-forum here at ECF, but I see you have already been there
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I use that program as well with great results. To me, I think it's the difference in flavor brands. I've been using Lorann's and Flavors Apprentice for all mine and have had great luck. When I find that a flavor is a bit 'perfumey' I'll let it sit for a while with the top off. This usually calms down that taste and I get a good sense of what it tastes like.
I think it also depends on the setup you are using to test your juice. I got a cheap 510 atomizer and put 2-3 drops on it to test. I don't want to waste my build on my mech mod and half the taste is lost in an EVOD or protank type setup.
I think it also depends on the setup you are using to test your juice. I got a cheap 510 atomizer and put 2-3 drops on it to test. I don't want to waste my build on my mech mod and half the taste is lost in an EVOD or protank type setup.
yea recipes all over the DIY area, when you use the ultrasonic try some hot, hot water as well, I have done several of the EJMUP blends and some of them are keepers, but i think there is better and more tweaked ones floating around here.
Depending on the concentration of the flavor (normal, super, ultra) you may need to start at a lower concentration. When working with a new flavor I start at 5% unless the manufacturer specifically calls for a lower amount.
When experimenting, use VG/PG only, no nic base. Then if it's bad you won't be tossing away much.
Steeping is an art in itself. Plastic bottles will inhibit the ultrasonic waves. Glass bottles are preferred. One hour of ultrasonic steeping is roughly equivalent to one week of natural steeping. If you can, steep in the ultrasonic with the bottle caps off. This allows for alcohol evaporation.
When experimenting, use VG/PG only, no nic base. Then if it's bad you won't be tossing away much.
Steeping is an art in itself. Plastic bottles will inhibit the ultrasonic waves. Glass bottles are preferred. One hour of ultrasonic steeping is roughly equivalent to one week of natural steeping. If you can, steep in the ultrasonic with the bottle caps off. This allows for alcohol evaporation.
Wow, I did use plastic bottles with the tops on. That's huge advice and I appreciate it. I think you guys are correct in the manufacturer tastes being much different. I may move to TPA and Loranns, however I am not saying that it is FW's issue and I'm sure it's mine. I just get discouraged from the time it takes to try it I guess. I'm so darn impatient. Great advice from all of you and thank you for the help.
I use TFA flavors. I have found that knowing the correct starting percentages is the key to quickly getting to the right flavor:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread.html
See post number 4. The correct starting percentages coupled with 4 or 5 day steeping times (2-3 days on many single flavors) should get you close enough to make big improvements. It took me 6 months to make good juice. Now I have 25. You have to keep at it, copy other people's recipes and just experiment. Once you get starting percentages down and find the flavors that taste good to you, try the more complex recipes on the threads. That's the only way you will learn how to make multi-ingredient mixes. After you do that for a while, you will know how to add a little of this and a lot of that, but be patient, keep at it, and then one day, practically everything you make will taste good. Had I not spent so much on DIY stuff, I would have given up long before I learned to do it pretty well. Tastes good to me, at least, and the family seems to like the concoctions (now). Best of luck. KEEP AT IT!
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/336110-flavor-apprentice-flavoring-thread.html
See post number 4. The correct starting percentages coupled with 4 or 5 day steeping times (2-3 days on many single flavors) should get you close enough to make big improvements. It took me 6 months to make good juice. Now I have 25. You have to keep at it, copy other people's recipes and just experiment. Once you get starting percentages down and find the flavors that taste good to you, try the more complex recipes on the threads. That's the only way you will learn how to make multi-ingredient mixes. After you do that for a while, you will know how to add a little of this and a lot of that, but be patient, keep at it, and then one day, practically everything you make will taste good. Had I not spent so much on DIY stuff, I would have given up long before I learned to do it pretty well. Tastes good to me, at least, and the family seems to like the concoctions (now). Best of luck. KEEP AT IT!
it is super easy to get frustrated with diy juice but it really is 1 part art 1 part chemistry and 1 part experimenting. stick with it, go slow - as in dont try 50 things at once. and above all else make sure you write everything down!!!!! nothing worse then hitting on something and you cant remember what you did. sooner or later you will start to get it then you glow with pride
Im having good luck with the flavor apprentice. I start at 10% but make small batches of 5ml that way if its too strong i can just add my base but most are really good at 10% so far. I also made menthol at 10% and it to everything anout 4 drops per ml.
Sttep time 3 days on average.
I use whipcream, marshmallow sweetcream to add sweetness or creaminess
Sttep time 3 days on average.
I use whipcream, marshmallow sweetcream to add sweetness or creaminess
OP, don't lose heart. I'm a gourmet cook and I mix the meanest cocktails in town, but DIY'ing e-juice is HARD!
Listen to the advice of those who came before, and never give up. I'm a month in, and to date, I've only ever produced one juice that was any good.
Here is an example of the kind of notes I take... not sure if it will help but maybe worth a shot:
Here are some notes I've compiled that you may find useful:
eJuice Recipe Calculator
ejuice calculator
CAPS = Capella
COV = Clouds of Vapor
FA = Flavour Art
FW = Flavor West
Lorann's
MBV = Mount Baker Vapors
MVS = My Vapor Store
NF = Nature's Flavors
TFA = The Flavor Apprentice
TPA = The Perfume Apprentice
VZ = Vaping Zone
TFA = The Flavor Apprentice - Wizard Labs carries TFA flavorings and they are cheaper to order from Wizard until you get to the 1 oz size bottles, then TFA has a better price. BUT...wizard is out of stock on various flavors a lot.
Check ingredients! Acetoin, diacetyl and acetyl propionyl should not be vaped. Flavour Art's Butterscotch is diacetyl free. On their website they clearly state which flavors do and which do not contain diacetyl.
Coffee Espresso by FlavourArt
This flavor is strong, very strong. Don't be fooled by the flavor before you mix it. The concentrate smells skunky, but once mixed.....perfect. here is the recipe I made .5% (YES POINT 5 percent concentrate), 3% Bavarian cream, and .5% Ethyl Maltol.
Ethyl Maltol
A crystal powder which has the taste of sugar/caramel/cotton candy. Ethyl Maltol is a very pleasant smelling chemical that is used as a flavorant for the food, beverage, tobacco, and fragrance industry. Suggested use: Dissolve 1 gram ethyl maltol in 9ml of propylene glycol. TIP: Warm the propylene glycol in the microwave, then add ethyl maltol powder to the warm propylene glycol. Diluted mixture can then be added to your liquid. Start with one or two drops per 6ml of liquid. Add more or less to suit your taste.
Depending on the concentration of the flavor (normal, super, ultra) you may need to start at a lower concentration. When working with a new flavor I start at 5% unless the manufacturer specifically calls for a lower amount.
Remember no more than 10-15 seconds in the microwave!
Listen to the advice of those who came before, and never give up. I'm a month in, and to date, I've only ever produced one juice that was any good.
Here is an example of the kind of notes I take... not sure if it will help but maybe worth a shot:
Here are some notes I've compiled that you may find useful:
eJuice Recipe Calculator
ejuice calculator
CAPS = Capella
COV = Clouds of Vapor
FA = Flavour Art
FW = Flavor West
Lorann's
MBV = Mount Baker Vapors
MVS = My Vapor Store
NF = Nature's Flavors
TFA = The Flavor Apprentice
TPA = The Perfume Apprentice
VZ = Vaping Zone
TFA = The Flavor Apprentice - Wizard Labs carries TFA flavorings and they are cheaper to order from Wizard until you get to the 1 oz size bottles, then TFA has a better price. BUT...wizard is out of stock on various flavors a lot.
Check ingredients! Acetoin, diacetyl and acetyl propionyl should not be vaped. Flavour Art's Butterscotch is diacetyl free. On their website they clearly state which flavors do and which do not contain diacetyl.
Coffee Espresso by FlavourArt
This flavor is strong, very strong. Don't be fooled by the flavor before you mix it. The concentrate smells skunky, but once mixed.....perfect. here is the recipe I made .5% (YES POINT 5 percent concentrate), 3% Bavarian cream, and .5% Ethyl Maltol.
Ethyl Maltol
A crystal powder which has the taste of sugar/caramel/cotton candy. Ethyl Maltol is a very pleasant smelling chemical that is used as a flavorant for the food, beverage, tobacco, and fragrance industry. Suggested use: Dissolve 1 gram ethyl maltol in 9ml of propylene glycol. TIP: Warm the propylene glycol in the microwave, then add ethyl maltol powder to the warm propylene glycol. Diluted mixture can then be added to your liquid. Start with one or two drops per 6ml of liquid. Add more or less to suit your taste.
Depending on the concentration of the flavor (normal, super, ultra) you may need to start at a lower concentration. When working with a new flavor I start at 5% unless the manufacturer specifically calls for a lower amount.
Remember no more than 10-15 seconds in the microwave!
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I use TFA and LORANNS also from wizard labs. I have had wonderful results. The only flavor out of my first 12 I bought a few weeks ago was the juicy peach. It did not taste like juicy peaches at all. All of my friends love my kettle corn!!
I started DIY about a month and a half ago, by reading all I can from the DIY forums all the way back to "2010".. I started mixing only 2 -1/2 weeks ago.. I still read every day...I taste every day.. Like poster above, make small 3 ml. batches w/ no nic. just 1 flavor at a time and find the percentage that the flavor is best tasting at. It's cheap enough to do it this way. Read some DIY blogs from some of many fine mixers we have here..Good Luck..
add: there is one post out there ???
describes mixing a 3ml. batch with low perc. of flavor then tastes then re-adds some some base then more flavor. - makes it so you don't throw away anything until you find the right percentage..
I lost that post somewhere..
add: there is one post out there ???
describes mixing a 3ml. batch with low perc. of flavor then tastes then re-adds some some base then more flavor. - makes it so you don't throw away anything until you find the right percentage..
I lost that post somewhere..
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I use TFA, FW, Lorann, and Watkins flavors. Every flavor needs a bit of tweaking, no matter which manufacturer you use.
I've been DIY for a little over a month and hit the mother load with my first recipe which is now my favorite ADV, and have gone through 200ml of it. I like strong flavors so mix most of my test batches at 10% flavor, but I do mix at 80% VG, and VG tends to mute the flavors a tad, so that was my reasoning for starting at 10%. For me, the more favors in the recipe the higher the total favoring I use. When I use 3 or 4 different extracts in one recipe the total favoring generally comes out to 12-13%. But this has a lot to do with how strong a particular a flavor is, and how much influence I want the enhancing flavors to have.
I think that part of my success to DIY is that fact that I used to be a chef, and have a good understanding of what flavors and spices enhance and combine well with foods and what can ruin a recipe and shouldn't be used. Some flavors require a light hand while others require more to get their point across. One can always add more neutral base to a juice if the flavor is overwhelming. Haven't had a batch yet that was un-vapable.
Good luck and hope you find your groove.
I think that part of my success to DIY is that fact that I used to be a chef, and have a good understanding of what flavors and spices enhance and combine well with foods and what can ruin a recipe and shouldn't be used. Some flavors require a light hand while others require more to get their point across. One can always add more neutral base to a juice if the flavor is overwhelming. Haven't had a batch yet that was un-vapable.
Good luck and hope you find your groove.
I've had good success with VZ super concentrate flavors. All the little bottles of my first attempts with TFA, FA and Capella will probably sit in the back of the cupboard until I'm really desperate these super concentrates have worked great using simple one flavor combos. They are all usable and I can then mix them in the tank to see what works together best. You only need a very small amount. Some veterans recommend one drop per ml. Now I'm starting to experiment with combining the other brands with the SC's to pretty good results. Happy days.
these super concentrates have worked great using simple one flavor combos. They are all usable and I can then mix them in the tank to see what works together best. You only need a very small amount. Some veterans recommend one drop per ml. Now I'm starting to experiment with combining the other brands with the SC's to pretty good results. Happy days.- Status
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