Flavors that may contain Diacetyl, are there really this many?

[MotherNatural]

I'm just at the experimenting stages with flavor extractions and good ingredients are limited. I've got a couple of organic tobacco leaf extractions going and one looks promising. A few others that need a huge amount of tweaking. Peppermint and ginger will be next.
I recently tried mixing at 2% PG based flavoring. It immediately made my throat feel like raw hamburger. .75 was tolerable for a short period but just not worth it. This has left my choices very limited and forcing me to experiment with natural extractions. I often vape unflavored but it's just not as enjoyable.
On the other hand my home has been chemical free for over five years and I eat very clean so it only makes sense that I avoid synthetic flavorings anyway. But I certainly make exceptions in that department.

 

[Pictor]

I wish FA would put out a PG free line.

Me too - the more the better!

 

[wllmc]

ya thats to bad, at least you are figuring out how you can still vape. that would be awesome to do your own extracts. I have only done coffee a few times. never had amazing success with it. Ill try again someday. good luck!

I'm just at the experimenting stages with flavor extractions and good ingredients are limited. I've got a couple of organic tobacco leaf extractions going and one looks promising. A few others that need a huge amount of tweaking. Peppermint and ginger will be next.
I recently tried mixing at 2% PG based flavoring. It immediately made my throat feel like raw hamburger. .75 was tolerable for a short period but just not worth it. This has left my choices very limited and forcing me to experiment with natural extractions. I often vape unflavored but it's just not as enjoyable.
On the other hand my home has been chemical free for over five years and I eat very clean so it only makes sense that I avoid synthetic flavorings anyway. But I certainly make exceptions in that department.

 

[cjsmiley13]

Im so confused here about the whole diacetyl topic, I vape mt baker, halom, uncle junk and sofa king- I am trying to find out if all these brands use this??? comments please !!!!

 

[RocketPuppy]

Im so confused here about the whole diacetyl topic, I vape mt baker, halom, uncle junk and sofa king- I am trying to find out if all these brands use this??? comments please !!!!

Those are all pra-made. You'd have to ask them where they purchase their flavor concentrates.

 

[RocketPuppy]

Never heard of halom though.

 

[marianna]

What do you all think about the statement by this AEMSA-certified supplier:

"Diacetyl occurs naturally in tobacco, apples, beans, butter, artichokes, black currants, blueberries, blue cheese, coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and wheat.
Diacetyl can come from many natural sources. It is a natural by-product from the conversion of glucose to ethanol by yeast during fermentation in beer, and it is also found naturally in low concentrations in coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and fruits. It is also present in butter at low levels.
Also, acetoin is produced from diacetyl and trace amounts of diacetyl may be present in “pure acetoin”.
Acetoin is currently considered "okay" for vaping. Although there is additional study needed on this.

(Diacetyl)

 

[brawas]

What do you all think about the statement by this AEMSA-certified supplier:

"Diacetyl occurs naturally in tobacco, apples, beans, butter, artichokes, black currants, blueberries, blue cheese, coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and wheat.
Diacetyl can come from many natural sources. It is a natural by-product from the conversion of glucose to ethanol by yeast during fermentation in beer, and it is also found naturally in low concentrations in coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and fruits. It is also present in butter at low levels.
Also, acetoin is produced from diacetyl and trace amounts of diacetyl may be present in “pure acetoin”.
Acetoin is currently considered "okay" for vaping. Although there is additional study needed on this.

(Diacetyl)

The question is not if acetoin/diacetyl is safe for consumption. The question is if it's safe for inhalation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[we2rcool]

What do you all think about the statement by this AEMSA-certified supplier:

"Diacetyl occurs naturally in tobacco, apples, beans, butter, artichokes, black currants, blueberries, blue cheese, coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and wheat.
Diacetyl can come from many natural sources. It is a natural by-product from the conversion of glucose to ethanol by yeast during fermentation in beer, and it is also found naturally in low concentrations in coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and fruits. It is also present in butter at low levels.
Also, acetoin is produced from diacetyl and trace amounts of diacetyl may be present in “pure acetoin”.
Acetoin is currently considered "okay" for vaping. Although there is additional study needed on this.

(Diacetyl)

What we think:

1) Yes, diacetyl in it's natural form is found in many natural foods & plants. They're (conveniently?) leaving out that the man-made synthetic diacetyl, that is commonly used in a vast array of 'food flavorings' (what we vape), is the only one known to have caused varying levels of bronchiolitis obliterans.

2) Acetoin converts to diacetyl when exposed to heat (and in some cases, when exposed to air). I think I've read that it converts to diacetyl when exposed to certain chemicals, as well. Anything that converts to diacetyl is not "okay for vaping".

3) Several of the studies done showing the damage of synthetic butter flavors (typically diacetyl) note quite clearly that the researchers are well aware that the chemicals involved in the popcorn factories were a mixture of diacetyl, acetyl propionyl and/or acetoin...and most also note/warn that consider that all (or similar) are likely inhalation risks.

4) Acetoin is currently considered "okay" for vaping We don't know of ANY chemical that has been tested and proven to be safe for long-term, direct mouth-to-lung inhalation.

 

[Jonathan Tittle]

What do you all think about the statement by this AEMSA-certified supplier:

"Diacetyl occurs naturally in tobacco, apples, beans, butter, artichokes, black currants, blueberries, blue cheese, coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and wheat.
Diacetyl can come from many natural sources. It is a natural by-product from the conversion of glucose to ethanol by yeast during fermentation in beer, and it is also found naturally in low concentrations in coffee, vinegar, dairy, honey, and fruits. It is also present in butter at low levels.
Also, acetoin is produced from diacetyl and trace amounts of diacetyl may be present in “pure acetoin”.
Acetoin is currently considered "okay" for vaping. Although there is additional study needed on this.

(Diacetyl)

Unless there's proof of chemical safety, I'd take the "okay for vaping" comment, in regards to Acetoin, with a grain of salt. The only chemicals in e-liquid that have been used for extended periods of time (inside & outside this industry), and have been shown to be safer are PG, VG, Saline and Water. That said, there's a risk when it comes to inhaling anything and by vaping, we accept that risk. At the same time, vendors should make it known what is in their e-liquids so consumers can make a truly informed decision.

I would hope that by making a blanket statement like that, they would have scientific proof to back it up.

 

[Mowgli]

Update: "Once again, we would like to thank all contributors for helping us raise the necessary funds for this very important study.
The study has been completed. The results have been presented as poster in the first Global Forum on Nicotine (Warsaw, 2014), and you can see it here: http://gfn.net.co/downloads/2014/posters/122 Farsalinos - DA_AP.pdf
The study will also be published very soon in a very respectable medical journal.

We believe this study was of crucial importance because we have detected an important but avoidable problem in e-cigarette liquids. Although still e-cigarettes confirmed their role as tobacco harm reduction products, I am confident all the necessary steps will be taken to make e-cigarette liquids safer than they currently are. It is a golden opportunity for the industry to show that they are responsible and caring for the vaper.
We plan to return for another crowdfunding campaign, since this study has generated more research questions that need to be answered.
Once again, thank you all for your contributions and for following our work."


Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos

 

[Flt Simulation]

So, what's so bad about Diacetyl ?

Anyone here have any proof that vaping Diacetyl will hurt you ?

I haven't seen any ...

 

[Leaded50]

Well, for this time, it did a big announcemnet around the diacetyl danger....what next?

For now,many is arguing that the ejuice makers nedd to do some MSDS , and/or flavorcompanys........BUT,
following the regulations from FDA, or EC, they both states that chemicals who is in low enough parts, doesnt need to be listed in the MSDS...... as in fact the Diacetyl mostly... what then?......
Shouldnt this "systems" uppgrade their regulations to enlist every part in ingrediesnses, before everyone claims the juice/aroma-producers to make the MSDS? They done what the rules say they need....

I feel the aroma/ejuice-producers got the blame....but infact, if checking the legal correct MSDS, this didnt need to be listed?
Correct me if wrong...but when searching reports about it, its a lot of stuff didnt needed to be listed, beacuse of the low rate...

 

[Zurd]

I will have to start checking what I'm buying from now on. But nothing's urgent, I'm gonna vape what I have first. They found the bad chemicals in 75% of their samples, it's only 2 times above the limits I know it's a lot but it's not like it's 5 times or 10 times above. And it's still much more safer than analogs.

 

[WharfRat1976]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqALm_rmM1g

We're Dooooomed. We're all gonna Die......

 

[Elizabeth Baldwin]

Think about this.....

An eliquid vendor buys his favors. Every flavor is below the .01 limit on Diacetyl. He adds 4 flavors to his recipe.

First flavor .009 Daicetyl.
Second flavor .08 Diacetyl.
third flavor .04 Diacetyl.
Fourth flavor .02 Diacetl.

Total Diacetyl for that recipe .23 Diacetyl. The flavor vendor's flavors are well below the limit on Diacetyl but the vendor can add more than one flavor making it above safe limits. This makes the vendor responsible for not using common sense and simple math.

As you can see multiple flavors could add up Diacetyl quickly. Imagine a recipe with several flavors.

 

[Racehorse]

So, what's so bad about Diacetyl ?

Anyone here have any proof that vaping Diacetyl will hurt you ?

I haven't seen any ...

We're Dooooomed. We're all gonna Die......

Some of you don't seem to get the point.......that being that if a customer orders a juice, and that customer prefers not to vape diacetyls, and is told that the juice does NOT have diacetyls, but it actually does, then the customer is not receiving what they thought they were purchasing.

I believe it is important to identify diacetyls, acetoins, etc. because customers should be able to purchase, in the free market, what they want. And they can't do that if there is no disclosure.

This is not about regulation...it's about disclosure.

It's no different than buying gluten free or salt free or aspartame free products......and then finding out that isn't true about the foodstuff you purchased.

there ARE vapers who have allergies to PG, or to Splenda, and they ask their vendor/mixer if their ejuice has these things. Seems like a perfectly reasonable thing to ask about, same thing with diacetyls, acetoins, etc.

I don't care, or want to specify or control what YOU vape. But I do want the freedom to not vape high PG or liquids with diacetyls, or liquids with food dyes.......and I can't do that if my vendor won't or can't disclose!

I think if you are selling a product and making claims on the ingredients, you should know the ingredients.

 

[flowerpots]

Update: "Once again, we would like to thank all contributors for helping us raise the necessary funds for this very important study.
The study has been completed. The results have been presented as poster in the first Global Forum on Nicotine (Warsaw, 2014), and you can see it here: http://gfn.net.co/downloads/2014/posters/122 Farsalinos - DA_AP.pdf
The study will also be published very soon in a very respectable medical journal.

We believe this study was of crucial importance because we have detected an important but avoidable problem in e-cigarette liquids. Although still e-cigarettes confirmed their role as tobacco harm reduction products, I am confident all the necessary steps will be taken to make e-cigarette liquids safer than they currently are. It is a golden opportunity for the industry to show that they are responsible and caring for the vaper.
We plan to return for another crowdfunding campaign, since this study has generated more research questions that need to be answered.
Once again, thank you all for your contributions and for following our work."


Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos

Which EC liquids were tested? Which brands? Were these pre-made commercial vendor juices only? Or does it also include DIY flavor concentrates? Does anyone know?

 

[StarDose]

Elizabeth... I believe it's the amount of diacetyl per ml or whatever measurement they used. Adding a flavor to other liquids doesn't increase by adding them altogether like you were doing.

If you did 1 ml of each of those you listed (.09 + .08 + .04 + .02) / 4 = .0575 per ml

 

[Zurd]

what flowerpots said, we need a list of the samples tested and we need more tested, saying that 3 out of 4 eliquids is contaminated is plain wrong because we have no idea which one has been tested. 156 samples is not a lot, there's thousands on the market. I'm grateful for the study but we need more data.

what if the samples tested are only sweets liquids, like custard, cream, ice cream, vanilla, boston cream, etc. If he can't release the vendor name, at least tell us what flavors was tested and omitting the vendor name.