Fog Juice anyone?

[CattMurry]

Quick question about making your own smoke juice.
I noticed that the Fog juice we use in our "smoke machine" at our production stage said it used food grade chemicals........ I checked the MSDS sheet for American DJ fog juice and it's a 40/60 mix of PG/G......
I'm sure you can see where this is going...... might this make a good base for DIY liquids. It’s 24.99 a gallon. Yes I put some in an old cart and it worked; no taste, light vapor. I added a little of humco glycerin (found at Wal-Mart) and it made better vapor. Did I just stumble onto a way to make very cheap liquid or will I be dead soon 8-o .
People inhale this stuff night after night in bars, at concerts, haunted houses etc.... not on propose mind you, but at the last concert I went to there was LOTS of "smoke' onstage....... I'm sure the Band gets a lung full before the shows over.

Any thoughts before I try more of this???

I was unable to post in the tips and tricks section not sure why. Maybe because I’m a new member

 

[LittleMissVapor]

I hope somebody knows the answer to this because I'm interested in making my own juice cheaply and this certainly sounds like a great idea!

 

[Flitzanu]

ummm, no you shouldn't be vaping fog machine juice.

most of those mixes have other chemicals in them and are not JUST PG and VG. i don't think anyone would safely recommend you inhaling this stuff in an ecig or PV.

that and i wouldn't trust the listing on the package telling me it is "food grade" either. just go spend 20 bucks on a gallon of PG or 20 bucks on a gallon of VG and make sure that they are USP grade.

 

[CattMurry]

Here is the MSDS sheet for the American DJ Fog juice
americandj.com/pdffiles/AMERFOG.PDF

It list Propylene Glycol and Glycerin as the only two ingredients, so I'm not sure if this brand has any of the other chemicals you mentioned. Also this is from their web site
• Made from pharmaceutical grade chemicals, each approved by the FDA.
• Each bottle comes with a material safety data sheet. (The MSDS)
• American Fog Juice produces a dense white cloud of smoke when used with American DJ fog machines (sold separately).
• Made from water base materials

I know that some fog machines are oil based and yes that would be very bad.
And no I don't think anyone should go power hit the fog machine at their next concert.
Now I've never even heard of a MSDS sheet before looking into this, but if those are the only ingredients, other than the water, I'm thinking this brand might be ok.
The manufacture KNOWS that this stuff will be inhaled by people
(As second hand fog lol) So why put anything in there that's going to get them sued by someone attending a concert or a performer that inhales this stuff for an hour or so each night while onstage during a 100 city tour?
I know it sounds crazy at first but is this any crazier than the link I found posted in another thread (sorry i cant post urls yet)
"Use to prevent & treat ketosis in dairy cattle".

I'm going o keep looking into this even though the cost wouldn't be that much lower than following the dairy cattle link, lol

 

[Flitzanu]

well the concern is, DEG is also used in fog machine fluid. i think it all depends on who is making it.

and, this is not meant to literally and directly be inhaled. saying it's ok if you're in a room and a fog machine is pumping out fluid, yeah you're going to breathe some in. however, you're not putting your mouth on it and inhaling it as you would a cig.

again, to each his own, but i'd personally just go buy my own PG and know that it is JUST PG.

 

[Robert]

Wow- you are crazier than I am. Fog Juice? is saving money really that important? It might work fine but I dunno? I wouldn't. How long had you been vaping when you decided this was fine? And how long have you been using it?

 

[Angela]

Fog/smoke/hazer fluid is exactly the same PG that we are all using. (ie PG is PG is PG.... it's the grade / contaminents that differ).

HOWEVER, it is very unusual for manufacturers to be using food/pharma grade materials. If it really is, then this should be fine, but if it isn't, then it's not pure enough and I wouldn't vape it

 

[Jim Davis]

If your health insurance is paid up, try it. I'll pass on it. The small amount of savings isn't worth it.

 

[CattMurry]

I think Angela has it right, PG is PG. I just need to verify that they are using USP grade stuff. I have some friends that work in the pro audio retail biz so getting in contact with a manufacturer rep should be easy.
To me it makes prefect sense that they would use pure grade stuff,
I need to look into how a fog machine makes it's vapor but I'm guessing it's not much different than the attys we are using. They don’t want clogged attys any more than we do, and they know that this stuff will be inhaled at least in low level. (But really, anyone that's been to a "Rock" show has seen the band in clouds of fog so thick that they ARE INHALING JUST FOG at times, and the do that night after night.)

Flitzanu also has a very good point; some fog juice has other things than just PG/G, like DEG. I'm talking about ONE BRAND. The American DJ stuff that has the MSDS listing only PG/G as the ingredients.

Robert: I"M NOT VAPING with this stuff yet.. and don’t plan on it until I can talk to a rep. The bottle we have at the studio is the SAM ASH music store house brand and although it's labeled "Food grade" I've not seen the MSDS for it so other than the 1 drop and 2-3 test puffs I took it will only be used in the fog machine, lol.

It's not only the cost, just thought it might be a quick, easy to get low cost premixed PG/G base to add flavor to.

But as Flitzanu said we should all make sure our PG or VG of choice is just that JUST PG or JUST VG.

I'll post what I find out from the manufacturer's rep.

 

[Angela]

I do work in the industry, and trust me, the reps won't necessarily have this information (even if they give you an answer!).

The problem is not with the PG itself, it is with any impurities (not necessarily even other ingredients).

Yes, smoke/fog/hazer machines are giant e-cigs, but when other people have previouslysuggested getting their PG from music/audio/theatrical sources, I have always adised against it, since it is certainly not normal for food/pharma grade ingedients to be used in the liquids, as is not being directly ingested/inhaled (although you may breathe in a bit).

American DJ is a brand that I know, and it is considered one of the budget brands on the market in general terms (but I would stress that I have no experiece of their fluid).

 

[h8isgr8]

Just for reference, "Food Grade" and "USP" labelings are two completely different things.

You can find "100% pure" food grade VG, but you will never find "100% pure" USP VG. This is because the food grade stuff does not have the same labeling restrictions as USP; they could market the food grade stuff as 1000% pure if they wanted too.

 

[Flitzanu]

Just for reference, "Food Grade" and "USP" labelings are two completely different things.

You can find "100% pure" food grade VG, but you will never find "100% pure" USP VG. This is because the food grade stuff does not have the same labeling restrictions as USP; they could market the food grade stuff as 1000% pure if they wanted too.

let me clarify one point of this.

yes, at feed stores, you can find USP Grade Glycerin.

i don't know that it says "100% pure glycerin" but it is USP grade.

 

[h8isgr8]

let me clarify one point of this.

yes, at feed stores, you can find USP Grade Glycerin.

i don't know that it says "100% pure glycerin" but it is USP grade.

What I was trying to say is, if it says "USP" on the label it will NEVER say "100%" on the same label. That's because there is no such thing as 100% pure VG. The highest USP VG you will find is like 99.7%.

Products labeled as "food grade" can get away with basically lying because they don't have to follow USP labeling regulations.

Personally, I would only us VG labeled USP; not food grade.

 

[Flitzanu]

What I was trying to say is, if it says "USP" on the label it will NEVER say "100%" on the same label. That's because there is no such thing as 100% pure VG. The highest USP VG you will find is like 99.7%.

Products labeled as "food grade" can get away with basically lying because they don't have to follow USP labeling regulations.

Personally, I would only us VG labeled USP; not food grade.

i thought that was what you meant, just trying to clear up any confusion on words

 

[CattMurry]

Ok I do agree that using FOG Juice is a bad idea if you can't verify a companies claim that it only uses a PG/G- water mix and that they are REALLY using USP grade stuff.

Yes Angela your right sometimes manufacturer's reps do not have a clue about their own products .

The one point I have to disagree on is how much "FOG" performers and people inhale at concerts and clubs. In a '"Fog'' filled club you are inhaling an air/vapor mix, sometimes for hours. When vaping you are getting some "fresh air" between drags (expect maybe cars and very small rooms) and then take a break before you start vaping again.

I once engineered a vocal (recording) session with a well known singer who didn't want candles in the room because his vocal coach told him it would lower the oxygen level in the room and lessen his performance (yes I had a laugh about that myself) But my point is there are artists that have millions riding on their vocals, throat, lungs etc.. You think someone (a vocal coach maybe) would make damn sure that when they are onstage standing in clouds of fog (inhaling pure fog at times imo) that the fog is harmless EVEN if the do somehow directly inhale it.

Sorry to be so stubborn about this, guess I just like a good debate.
Although I can't yet prove that a certain brand of FOG JUICE uses only USP grade stuff (although some claim to), no one has proven THAT ALL BRANDS DON"T.

So my questions are where is everyone getting their stuff, and how do you know it's safe. Other than just trusting the USP label (cause that'd be hard to fake) or the "I've been using it for months and feel fine" method.
(I will accept good advice even if it is the I feel fine method )

Everyone seems to be holding the ONLY LIQUID DESINGED TO MAKE "SMOKE" AND BE INHALE AT LEAST INDIRECTLY to a higher standard than other DIY sources.

BTW I mean no disrespect to the senior members in rehashing this topic, like I said I just like a good debate.

 

[Angela]

I was just reading another thread about PG and remembered that I meant to do a follow up on this one.

I checked out American DJ fog juice and, although they do state that they use the highest grade of purity for the chemicals, they also confirm that (for the various types of juice they do) the ingredients are "... a mixture of mineral oil, glycol and osmozed water in various proportions."

So just to re-confirm... don't use it!

 

[Alientropy]

Can anyone tell us where to get a Gallon of PG and a Gallon of VG... and perhaps the brand names so we know were getting the right stuff?