Getting scared of li-ion batteries!

[Jaysin]

I am still new to all this but have bought a mechanical mod. I also ordered a 18650 and 18350 battery and charger. I figured it was a good way to get into more APV type stuff since they will all need batteries and a charger. The more I read about these batteries the more scared and concerned I get. I ordered a AW Orange IMR 18350 3.7v 700 mAh LiMN rechargeable battery, AW Orange 18650 3.7v 2000mAh LiMN rechargeable battery, and TrustFire TR-001 lithium-ion dual bay battery charger. Are these things ok to use? It says these are NOT protected batteries. Should they be?? Do I have to watch these charge?? How do you know when to stop using them and charge them? They say draining to low is dangerous. How do I know when to stop charging them?? They say over charging is dangerous. Please help.

 

[Jerms]

I am still new to all this but have bought a mechanical mod. I also ordered a 18650 and 18350 battery and charger. I figured it was a good way to get into more APV type stuff since they will all need batteries and a charger. The more I read about these batteries the more scared and concerned I get. I ordered a AW Orange IMR 18350 3.7v 700 mAh LiMN rechargeable battery, AW Orange 18650 3.7v 2000mAh LiMN rechargeable battery, and TrustFire TR-001 lithium-ion dual bay battery charger. Are these things ok to use? It says these are NOT protected batteries. Should they be?? Do I have to watch these charge?? How do you know when to stop using them and charge them? They say draining to low is dangerous. How do I know when to stop charging them?? They say over charging is dangerous. Please help.

I'm pretty new to APV and rechargeable batts too and had recently been learning about them. I can answer a few of your qs until someone more experienced comes along.

One thing that will help is to state what APV you bought. The one I bought was the Vamo which meant that unprotected, or IMR, batts were necessary because they are high drain. LiMn batts have a safer chemistry than unprotected LiOn and are safe for the Vamo. I don't know if they're suggested with a mechanical mod or not. With the Vamo it stops drawing power before it gets low enough to damage the battary, again not sure if thats true with yours. It can also check the voltage of the battery to see where it's at.

I looked at that charger but decided instead on a Xtar since it stops charging when the battery is charged to prevent overcharging. The Trustfire goes into trickle charge when full meaning it will still supply a small amount of current when the light turns green. Because of that you'll want to remove the batteries shortly after the charge is done.

From what I understand, the risk is very minimal as long as you learn all the safety recommendations and follow them. Don't do something or use a product unless you know for sure you're doing it in the safest way possible.

Hopefully someone will give some info on mechanical mods and battery safety. Keep researching and good luck!

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jaysin]

The one I have is Telescope by Smok. It's fairly cheap, no electronic safety features like the VAMO, no electronics at all. I got it because it seems to be ablee to use whatever batteries you want. I wanted the versatility when I do get an APV to be able to use the batteries in something smaller and carry-able. I probably won't be carrying around my nice electronic beast. Lol. Also, I figured it would be nice to already have a few batteries.

 

[Jaysin]

Oh, and the Xtar does look nice. May have bought it instead but my order is enroute already. Due to show up tomorrow.

 

[Jerms]

Someone will mention how to tell when the batt needs charging with that one and if IMR is ok to use. I'm thinking you have to go by feel, the vape will feel noticably weaker when it's down to 3 volts.

The Trustfire will work fine. Just be sure to not leave the batteries on for hours after charged and don't leave them charging overnight, which I won't do with my Xtar anyway. Other than that another reason I went this the Xtar is it charges faster because I can set it to charge at 1A instead of the Trustfire .5A.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[Jaysin]

Someone will mention how to tell when the batt needs charging with that one and if IMR is ok to use. I'm thinking you have to go by feel, the vape will feel noticably weaker when it's down to 3 volts.

The Trustfire will work fine. Just be sure to not leave the batteries on for hours after charged and don't leave them charging overnight, which I won't do with my Xtar anyway. Other than that another reason I went this the Xtar is it charges faster because I can set it to charge at 1A instead of the Trustfire .5A.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

Thank you. I may upgrade to an Xtar eventually. I'm sure of it actually. along with a huge number of various size batteries and APV's. I'm still so new. At least I finally understand ohms, volts, watts, clearos, tanks, cartos . . . . I'm getting there.

 

[kiwivap]

I am still new to all this but have bought a mechanical mod. I also ordered a 18650 and 18350 battery and charger. I figured it was a good way to get into more APV type stuff since they will all need batteries and a charger. The more I read about these batteries the more scared and concerned I get. I ordered a AW Orange IMR 18350 3.7v 700 mAh LiMN rechargeable battery, AW Orange 18650 3.7v 2000mAh LiMN rechargeable battery, and TrustFire TR-001 lithium-ion dual bay battery charger. Are these things ok to use? It says these are NOT protected batteries. Should they be?? Do I have to watch these charge?? How do you know when to stop using them and charge them? They say draining to low is dangerous. How do I know when to stop charging them?? They say over charging is dangerous. Please help.

Hi Jaysin - you've bought the best batteries. This is from the ECF guide on Rechargeable Batteries:

Our advice is that the best and the safer choice of battery for APVs is the AW IMR Li-Mn rechargeable.

It is a safer-chemistry battery that needs no protection, and has a high-discharge rating meaning that it is safer to use with high-current devices such as atomizers.

IMRs have safer chemistry than the protected batteries.

The Trustfire TR-001 is ok to use too. I have two myself. They will take a long time to charge your batteries - they are noted for being slow. So charging can take several hours. On the plus side you don't shorten your overall battery life by fast charging.
The Xstar WPII and the Pila chargers are good chargers and charge faster if you want that.

I don't think you need to be concerned - you've got good batteries and you are obviously safety conscious.
I wrote a short post on my blog about mod battery safety if you're interested ina few tips as well:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/kiwivap/3243-mod-battery-safety.html

Jerms already covered some of the points too.

 

[Jaysin]

Hi Jaysin - you've bought the best batteries. This is from the ECF guide on Rechargeable Batteries:


IMRs have safer chemistry than the protected batteries.

The Trustfire TR-001 is ok to use too. I have two myself. They will take a long time to charge your batteries - they are noted for being slow. So charging can take several hours. On the plus side you don't shorten your overall battery life by fast charging.
The Xstar WPII and the Pila chargers are good chargers and charge faster if you want that.

I don't think you need to be concerned - you've got good batteries and you are obviously safety conscious.
I wrote a short post on my blog about mod battery safety if you're interested ina few tips as well:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/kiwivap/3243-mod-battery-safety.html

Jerms already covered some of the points too.

Thank you! Very informative. I did do a bit of reading before buying the batteries its just the telescope is what it is. No safety features and I started worrying. I will worry less now.

 

[Orobas]

the general consensus from other threads seems to be

Mechanical mods = Use PROTECTED batteries + a 2 cent fuse (if possible)

Fancyass mods = unprotected is ok

 

[Jaysin]

the general consensus from other threads seems to be

Mechanical mods = Use PROTECTED batteries + a 2 cent fuse (if possible)

Fancyass mods = unprotected is ok

Grrrr . . . That is not what the last person said. I'm gonna need a consensus. Is this gonna blow up in my hand???? Lol.

 

[Izan]

J,
Almost Two Weeks!!! Doing great!!!
Okay, now....
did you ever have an RC car/truck/plane/boat?
Those batteries are the same as Ecig batteries,
When the car goes slower, you charge, when the vape sucks, you charge. That is a bit over simple, but really, as you get used to your new toy, it will make perfect sense.

Follow the safety guidelines linked above and ALWAYS carry spares in an approved plastic container. NEVER LOOSE IN POCKET NEVER


I

 

[kiwivap]

Grrrr . . . That is not what the last person said. I'm gonna need a consensus. Is this gonna blow up in my hand???? Lol.

No, its not. This is from the same ECF guide I linked before, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html. That guide was put together carefully by a group of people, and this list applies to APVS. IMRs are safer than protected.

Rechargeable batteries

We now advise that Li-Mn or top-quality Li-FePo4 rechargeables are used in APVs, in preference to rechargeable Li-ions. We suggest the best option, in order, is:

1. AW IMR Li-Mn rechargeables.
2. AW Li-FePo4 rechargeables [Li-FePo4's MUST HAVE A SPECIAL CHARGER]. Note that these batteries are mostly 3 volt nominal so the system voltage will be lower than normal.
3. Good quality (such as AW or Pila) protected Li-ion rechargeables.
4. Branded protected Li-ions come next - such as xxxfire Li-ion rechargeables (for xxx insert Trust / Sure / Ultra-).
5. The least-preferable option is a generic protected Li-ion.
6. Unprotected rechargeable Li-ion cells should not be used.
7. Standard cells (non-rechargeable) should not be used.

.... Because the protection circuit on a protected Li-ion battery can fail, an Li-Mn or good-quality Li-FePo4 is intrinsically safer.

 

[Orobas]

Grrrr . . . That is not what the last person said. I'm gonna need a consensus. Is this gonna blow up in my hand???? Lol.

Well thats whst i understood.

I use egos and dont have to worry about it.

 

[Jaysin]

Well thats whst i understood.

I use egos and dont have to worry about it.

I use those now but wanna try bigger and better!

 

[Jaysin]

No, its not. This is from the same ECF guide I linked before, http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html. That guide was put together carefully by a group of people, and this list applies to APVS. IMRs are safer than protected.

Thank you!!

 

[fourthrok]

You can use LiMn IMR in the mechanicals just fine. Also protected ones. You don't "need" anything like the short stop (or whatever it's called). I use mechanicals almost exclusively. You put your battery on the charger when the vape starts getting weak. If in doubt, check with a multi-meter or other voltage check device. You'll pick up the "feel" for knowing when it's time quickly. You sound like you've got a level head. You'll do fine. Enjoy your new APV!

 

[SissySpike]

What kind of batteries do you think are in Egos? I have read more posts of them having battery issues more than any other mod. I use IMRs in mechanical also and have no issues fourthrok is right just slap it in the charger when your vape diminishes dont try to run it down completely. Its not a big deal you can tell you will want a fresh battery because the Vape is not as good. With the cheaper mechanical mod you will want to keep the connections clean to get consistent firing. To date my favorite mechanical mod is my EA but I like all of my hybirds also. I have unregulated Wizard, Saber touch and never had an issue. If it gives you piece of mind a vape safe is available its worth the 15$ if it makes you feel better.

 

[Jaysin]

Thanks everyone. Got my batteries today and am happily vaping it up on my telescope.

 

[Thrasher]

ok first IMR are not straight LI ion batteries they are hybrids and are considered safer because IF they fail they do not pop they get hot, melt down and vent gas - this is why ALL mods have hole in the bottom. so the gas has a way to escape without causing undue pressure.

if it makes you feel safer you can use protected batteries, it would be a bit safer but is not absolutely required, i would recommend a 2cent fuse or if it fits, a hot spring, but again it is not madatory just safer in the long run.
even in something like a provari a bad battery is going to melt down no matter what it is in,

if you take precautions like always checking your coils for shorts when building RBA's and checking the batteries as soon as the mod feels hot for some reason there is little chance of a problem, some common sense and caution will go a long way here.

if you search for the amount of bad batteries and problems and melt downs you will find them but not many. compare this number to how many mods are actually in use and you will see the problem can happen but is very rare.