Got my first mechanical mod! But now I'm too scared to use it...

[WarHawk-AVG]

In a mod it's best to use protected batteries because there is no "over drain" protection built into the electronics of the mod

You can kill a Li Ion battery by overdraining it

Here are a few links that I hope will help
Battery Safeguards; Protection Circuits
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion

Protection circuits can only shield abuse from the outside, such as an electrical short or faulty charger. If, however, a defect occurs within the cell, such as contamination caused by microscopic metal particles, the external protection circuit has little effect and cannot arrest the reaction. Reinforced and self-healing separators are being developed for cells used in electric powertrains, but this makes the batteries large and expensive. While a Li-ion for a laptop provides a capacity of 170–200Wh/kg, the EV Li-ion has only 100–110Wh/kg.

The gas released by venting of a Li-ion cell as part of pressure buildup is mainly carbon dioxide (CO2). Other gases that form through abusive heating are vaporized electrolyte consisting of ethylene and/or propylene. Burning gases include combustion products of the organic solvents.

Li-ion commonly discharges to 3.0V/cell. This is the threshold at which most portable equipment stops working. The lowest “low-voltage” power cut-off is 2.5V/cell, and during prolonged storage, the self-discharge causes the voltage to drop further. This causes the protection circuit to turn off and the battery goes to sleep as if dead. Most chargers ignore Li-ion packs that have gone to sleep and a charge is no longer possible.

The nice thing about the external protection circuit..if you do happen to drain the battery too far, you can possibly recharge it if you take that protection circuit off..on batteries that have the protection built in under the heat shrink wrapping...you CAN'T remove it without permanently removing it

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

doh double post

 

[Baditude]

Although I've been vaping for a year, I'm new to mechanics too.
I haven't tried the K100 out yet either
I also have the fuse, and although the K100 calls for the 18650 or 18350, I was advised to get the 18500,
so that it would fit with the fuse in it.
So I picked up the Efest 1100 IMR 3.7 Li-Mn flat top rechargeable battery's
It doesn't state if it's protected or not.

Am I OK with what I have or do I need to go shopping again ??

You are ok with that Efest IMR. IMR batteries are not protected, but don't necessarily need to be because they use safer chemicals that are less voltatile when stressed. The IMR or Lithium Manganese batteries are the safest batteries available to us for vaping. They are inherently safer than the "NCR protected" Li-Ion or Lithium Ion batteries, which because of their more volatile chemistry require built in protection circuits. Should the protected circuit fail in an NCR battery, this can happen:

• Not all batteries are created equal. Most battery experts suggest using only well-recognized, high quality, brand name batteries such as AW, Panasonic, Sony, Sanyo, Orbtronic, Efest.

• Trustfire, Ultrafire, and Surefire are a second-tier brand-name battery in terms of quality, which are probably safe to use in normal demand situations, but I would not use these for an RBA or sub ohm vaping under any circumstances. I recommend using a vape safe mod fuse if you are going to use these brands for a second layer of protection. http://www.thevapesafe.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=163

• Do not use generic (no brand name) batteries, often seen for sale on Amazon at cheap prices or sometimes thrown in for free when you purchase a mod that was made in China. These are unknown batteries of unknown quality, and are simply not worth the risk of using in your mod. Never assume that because they were included with the mod that they are safe or the correct battery to use. Also be cautious of what you buy from FastTech; it can be extremely confusing to know what type of battery that they are listing for sale, and you have to do a little digging around to find out for certain. I've seen un-protected NCR Li Ion batteries for sale there, which should never be used in a mod. Just because a battery is listed as un-protected, do NOT assume it is a Li Mn safe chemistry battery.

• If you are uncertain about the quality or type of a battery, don't buy or use it. Buy only from trusted vendors. Use the type of battery that your mod and your application calls for. For example, do not use earth magnets on top of flat-top batteries when your mod's manufacturer tells you to use only button-top batteries.

• Always use safe battery practices and common sense with these batteries. They contain a lot of stored energy in them. Even the safest battery available to us can fail. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html#post3265928 Used correctly they can be as safe as using your laptop or cell phone, which use the same type of batteries.

• If you are using sub ohm coils in an RBA/RDA, it is extremely important to use the highest quality battery and the correct type. This application requires an IMR battery that has high continuous amperage capabilities of 20 amps or more. Only a few batteries have this specification. The AW 18650 IMR 1600 mAh and the MNKE 18650 IMR 1600 mAh come to mind. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/rebuildable-atomizer-systems/432181-need-help-picking-best-battery-sub-ohm-vaping.html

A basic rundown of replaceable, rechargeable batteries used in mods:

NCR Li Ion Lithium ion class batteries, also called "protected batteries".

• These are batteries that have a built-in protective circuit. This is because they contain a volatile chemistry that can become unstable when hot, and when short circuited can vent with flame in an event that is called "thermal runaway". If safe battery practices and common sense is used, they are considered relatively safe.

• These batteries have a higher capacity (mAh rating) than IMR batteries, and are primarily used in single voltage applications where long battery time is the primary objective.

IMR Li Mn. Lithium manganese class batteries. Also called "high drain", "safer chemistry", and "unprotected" batteries.

• Use a safer and more stable chemistry and therefore do not require built-in protective circuits in the battery. These generally are used in regulated mods that use boost circuits to achieve variable voltage-wattage, but they can also be used in single voltage mechanical mods, especially when using sub ohm vaping.

• This class will have less capacity in mAh rating compared to protected batteries, but are superior to them when maximum load current is required, such as in regulated mods or mechanical mods using sub ohm.

Resources:

http://batteryuniversity.com/

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/battery-issues/254690-protected-batteries-vs-imr-safety-5.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-news/129007-warning-rechargeable-batteries-apvs.html

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-library/129569-rechargeable-batteries.html

 

[The Ocelot]

Completely o/t ! Baditude, I'm trying to send you a pm but your inbox is full!

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

Agreed!! Buy good batteries. You can also get protected batteries.

I run unprotected however, I use Panny and efest high drain batteries.

I trust that those are the IMR batteries from Panasonic, and that you are using the fuse in your mod.

 

[Mattmancool34]

anyone know anything about the eh imr's from madvapes. They are dirt cheap right now and I'm thinking of picking some up.

 

[wutarush]

I always use safe chem imrs for one reason, and that is if anything were to happen it will likely get very hot with enough warning to get it outside and away from me, rather then explode. But again its nothing to live in fear of as long as you are careful about it. Cell phones, laptops, tablets, handheld gaming devices, and more all have batteries with the same dangerous potential. I've had a cell phone battery go nuclear on me once and melt my phone, but not a mod yet.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

interesting

Lithium Ion Battery Manufacturers in the World by Business Name

safe chem or saft chem?

 

[Baditude]

anyone know anything about the eh imr's from madvapes. They are dirt cheap right now and I'm thinking of picking some up.

I suggest you do a Google search for EH battery review.

I did one here on one of their protected batteries. Two owner comments were not so good:

EH Protected 18500 Battery, 1600mAh

Perhaps there's a reason they are so cheap?

 

[Dregnar]

In addition to using good quality high drain IMR batteries, you'll want to familiarizing yourself with how the vaping experience changes as your batteries start to drain. Initially, I would carry a spare battery or two and quickly change them out when noticing a change in the vaping experience. I would also either carry my Provari with me to check the battery level or limit myself to only using the mec mods while at home to quickly test battery voltage. As I got more comfortable with using my mec mods, It got easier to figure out when to swap batteries based solely on the vaping experience. Since I started using mec mods, I only purchase AW or Efest high drain IMR batteries. I stopped using the "blue" batteries that you receive with some VV/VW mods when purchasing the kits.

 

[AgentAnia]

Thank you, proverbs, for starting this thread! I've been wanting to get a mech, as a reliable option in case of an FDA-induced vaping apocalypse, but reading about battery safety has had me wondering if it's the right thing for me.

So I appreciate and thank all the posters who've replied. I'm so ignorant and inexperienced on anything electricity that the eyes glaze over even when reading "Batteries for Dummies," but you all have made me hope I might see this through. At least now I have a pretty good idea of what I don't know and need to learn before taking the plunge!

Question about that little fuse chip, and chargers, multimeter, and safe and reliable batteries: Can I get these at my local Radio Shack, or should I be looking for them on vaping websites? And what about the Kick? Is that something I should be considering?

 

[Baditude]

I don't know of any reliable general purpose stores that sell the Li Ion or Li Mn batteries that we use for our mods. You will need to purchase supplies from a vaping website or a vape B&M.

My favorite place to purchase all of these supplies is RTD Vapor AW Batteries. A reliable and dependable vendor that sells quality batteries and chargers for our needs, and excellent customer service, too. You can find the Vape Safe mod fuse at the bottom of the battery page.

The Kick will allow you to turn some mechanical mods into a regulated variable power APV. It fits on top of your battey (+ side). To change the power you turn a screw-like control knob. You'll need to disassemble your mod each time you change the power. The Kick does take up some room in the battery compartment, so you may need to step down a battery size for it to fit. Or, some mods offer a battery extension sleeve in order to use a Kick and your original-size battery. AltSmoke offers an extension sleeve for their Silver Bullet for $25. The Kick is a processor, and does have built-in safety protections (and limit restrictions) that other regulated mods have.

Evolv Kick



AltSmoke Silver Bullet with a Kick

 

[AgentAnia]

Thanks for your reply, Bad! It's starting to make sense now.... I've bookmarked the RTD site. Was a bit worried when I read rolygate's (pretty sure it was RG, though I was reading in the wee hours...) battery posts here about the many counterfeit batteries being sold. If you recommend RTD I will trust them (and since AW are my initials, I like them already, lol)

I'm looking at the Smoktech Magneto, which telescopes (by screwing and unscrewing, not by extension tube), so adding the fuse chip shouldn't be a problem. Additional question: What's the expected life of the fuse chip? Should I order more than one (big believer in backups here...!)

So the Kick is a voltage regulator and not really used for additional safety? Then I probably won't be using that...

Many thanks for your help!!!

 

[Baditude]

Thanks for your reply, Bad! It's starting to make sense now....

I'm looking at the Smoktech Magneto, which telescopes (by screwing and unscrewing, not by extension tube), so adding the fuse chip shouldn't be a problem. Additional question: What's the expected life of the fuse chip? Should I order more than one (big believer in backups here...!)

So the Kick is a voltage regulator and not really used for additional safety? Then I probably won't be using that...

Sorry for not responding sooner, I kinda forgot about this thread.

There are two types of the protective portable chips. The 2 Cent Fuse is a one-shot deal, one short protected and it's finished and no longer effective. The Vape Safe Mod Fuse can be used to block multiple shorts, but it does have a finite life expectancy which probably can't be predicted. Seems like it would be worth the extra money though.

The Kick is a voltage regulator and also has built-in protection, too. If you use the Kick, you won't need a mod fuse.

 

[rogergendron1]

Nothing to be scared of bro.... I used exclusively nothing but meChanical dwvices and I worry about nothing .

If you want to be safw just use the right battery aw imr . Once you know more about batterys u can ezperiment with other brands mnke sony exe

So I vape all day every day heavily on nothing but mechs and rebuildablez and I have neber had a problem not even a battery get warm.

You dont even need that fuse but if somthing did happen somehow it will help .

Aw batterys do not explode lol they get hot when shorted and bulge out and then vent gasses out in a hisssy fit but thats all . They are a safer chemistry so they are generaly not protected .

I have had a battery fail in an vv mod but all that happend was it got real hot and I obviously noticed it was getting hot so I unscrewed the mod and dropped it on the ground lol that was that .

Just use aw imr and you wont have a problem even at sub ohm ..... That is unless you jam a penny in your rba's cap and the button gets presed,in your pocket for a few min but then I am shure you will know somethings up lol

 

[Baditude]

Nothing to be scared of bro.... I used exclusively nothing but meChanical dwvices and I worry about nothing .

If you want to be safw just use the right battery aw imr . Once you know more about batterys u can ezperiment with other brands mnke sony exe

So I vape all day every day heavily on nothing but mechs and rebuildablez and I have neber had a problem not even a battery get warm.

You dont even need that fuse but if somthing did happen somehow it will help .

Aw batterys do not explode lol they get hot when shorted and bulge out and then vent gasses out in a hisssy fit but thats all . They are a safer chemistry so they are generaly not protected .

I have had a battery fail in an vv mod but all that happend was it got real hot and I obviously noticed it was getting hot so I unscrewed the mod and dropped it on the ground lol that was that .

Just use aw imr and you wont have a problem even at sub ohm ..... That is unless you jam a penny in your rba's cap and the button gets presed,in your pocket for a few min but then I am shure you will know somethings up lol

Don't take thngs for granted....http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/new-members-information/190146-pictures-serious-battery-failure-imr-18650-a.html#post3265928

 

[ADDICT3101]

I would use Panasonic or AW both protected. I have a sigelei 8 at .8 it rocks. You probably have a hot spring in it as well. I've shorted mine and it shrunk like slinky. Just pay attention is all. Welcome to the world of mechanical have fun I love it.

 

[irizarry97]

For the record...I recently purchased my first mod....the periscope from got vapes. Not happy. Its quite chintzy. The positive pin insulator has already broken anf the button is not very comfy. I have to fiddle around with it alot. I also purchased a smomtek kick device. Works awesome but was unaware that it would not allow me to fire subohm coils. Would have liked to know that.

 

[ziggytrix]

The K100 I got from Fasttech took about 3 weeks to get here - drove me crazy waiting, but I have 0 complaints with the mod. It's like they say, with a decent mechanical everything comes down to how nice of a coil you build and the battery you're using, and the Panasonic CGR18650CH on top of a Vapesafe2 fuse are working quite nicely for me on a 0.9 ohm dual coil nimbus clone.