H.R.1676 The end of the begging
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Well its all about tobacco taxes, so that really shouldnt affect us. Or am I missing something. Honestly though, I dont even think this bill will do too much, ordering cigs over the internet from like russia was never that big, at least most people I knew didnt do it, infact I was the only one I knew. And besides this is something no one really has a reason to vote nay, because it wont hurt any of them. There is very little resistance by the masses for anything tobacco.
For example, adding a exta tax on wages for smokers...not so much of an issue
Adding a extra tax on wages for overweight/health risk employees, people went APE****.
For example, adding a exta tax on wages for smokers...not so much of an issue
Adding a extra tax on wages for overweight/health risk employees, people went APE****.
George, I read this top to bottom, my eyes are still crossed. How or will this affect us? I understand it is within a hair's breathe of saying Nicotene, but it doesn't. What bill is it attached to?
Not necessarily, Boston George. The argument is that ecigs are the "functional equivalent" of cigarettes. That they are intended for use in the same way as cigarettes, and not as cessation devices. Not that they are necessarily a "tobacco product".
I know, I'm splitting hairs here, but we have to.
I know, I'm splitting hairs here, but we have to.
yvilla, you may be right.
I may have been hasty about HR1676
Was late last night, I may have been slightly intoxicated and just generally ...... at the FDA
That said, e-juice does have tobacco oils in it. It is a derivative of the tobacco plant and may in fact be a tobacco product.
Moreover, they created this legislation to stop people from dodging taxes. Surely if enough people are dodging taxes with e-cigs they will amend it to prevent the mailing for e-juice...
I may have been hasty about HR1676
Was late last night, I may have been slightly intoxicated and just generally ...... at the FDA
That said, e-juice does have tobacco oils in it. It is a derivative of the tobacco plant and may in fact be a tobacco product.
Moreover, they created this legislation to stop people from dodging taxes. Surely if enough people are dodging taxes with e-cigs they will amend it to prevent the mailing for e-juice...
While I think george has a good point, I still think it will take a while to have any effect or for the government to really care about loosing taxes. I really have NO numbers to support this, but in reality in 2 years I dont think Ecigs will top 1-2% of people that smoke in this country. That is not really worth it for the government to notice much.
ALSO
Again I am not a legal expert, but this can be compared to Internet sales tax. Other states cant tax goods going to another state. They have been trying to fix this and so far after years, the best they are doing is if there is a store in the buyers state, tax is added. With the majority of sales being online except those those overpriced kiosks and some smoke shops selling them, I dont think this will be a huge problem.
But again if the Ecig really really takes off and hopefully hits 50% of smokers in 5-10 years, then oh yea we will see some taxes (of course at this point you are going to see eliquid at your local gas station)
ALSO
Again I am not a legal expert, but this can be compared to Internet sales tax. Other states cant tax goods going to another state. They have been trying to fix this and so far after years, the best they are doing is if there is a store in the buyers state, tax is added. With the majority of sales being online except those those overpriced kiosks and some smoke shops selling them, I dont think this will be a huge problem.
But again if the Ecig really really takes off and hopefully hits 50% of smokers in 5-10 years, then oh yea we will see some taxes (of course at this point you are going to see eliquid at your local gas station)
This will effect the American Indians on the reservations selling cigs and that is what it is all about. $21.00 a carton as good as Malboros. Ny state stoped them severel years ago using UPS and now they want to stop the USPS from shipping them. Also using credit cards.
It looks like the USPS will still be exempt from the new rules. "COMMON CARRIER- The term common carrier means any person (other than a local messenger service or the United States Postal Service) that holds itself out to the general public as a provider for hire of the transportation by water, land, or air of merchandise, whether or not the person actually operates the vessel, vehicle, or aircraft by which the transportation is provided, between a port or place and a port or place in the United States.
The Indians are prepared to fight this, hard. Could get interesting.
Well, I just wrote to my senators saying I'm opposed to this method of making smokers pay frequently excessive taxes.
I hope the Indians win. Once they stop us buying one thing it will be other things. Just like the have done such a good job of socializeing everyone that smoking is terrible, they will socializer other thiings, now they know how dumb some of us are.
They certainly noticed SYO (stuff your own) cigarettes which were probably 1 to 2% of the market when they increased the tax on bulk tobacco 2500% on Apr 1 (from $1 to $25 per pound) which effectively shut down this market. Just being curious, what would you do if e-liquid rose in cost from $10 per 20ml bottle to $35 per 20ml bottle?
This takes dead aim at the smokeless market. It's not just about Indian reservation sales and note that it specifically outlaws the U.S. Post Office from delivering tobacco products. For me, this would end ordering snus from Sweden and pipe tobacco from Canada. It's one more nail in the coffin of less harmful alternatives.
It's just another bill to make sure all smokers are rounded up and corralled in their local tobacco shop, where everything can be carefully regulated and all taxes collected. Again, "save the children" is a bad joke.
If they ban dissolvables and snus, as the Senate is preparing to do with the other bill, what chance does anyone think the e-cig has of any sort of approval. In this climate!? They are just shutting us down, BG. Shutting us down completely without a single legal alternative.
Like Custer, I can hold out a little while. But the outcome will just be delayed, not changed.
It's just another bill to make sure all smokers are rounded up and corralled in their local tobacco shop, where everything can be carefully regulated and all taxes collected. Again, "save the children" is a bad joke.
If they ban dissolvables and snus, as the Senate is preparing to do with the other bill, what chance does anyone think the e-cig has of any sort of approval. In this climate!? They are just shutting us down, BG. Shutting us down completely without a single legal alternative.
Like Custer, I can hold out a little while. But the outcome will just be delayed, not changed.
I would go to DIY - no nic. They gonna tax PG, water, and flavorings?
and I feel for ya, TBob, I really do....they want to corrall all the smokers in little boxes so they can continue to fund the children's health care with our lungs.....even though we've all (here, at least) found something just as enjoyable - cleaner - and better then analogs.
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LOL If e-juice went up that much, I would grow a few tobacco plants in the back yard, take the leaves, soak them in water, add some glycerin and whatever else is in the e-juice, purchase nicotine from canada... I dunno, but I can tell you this, I would NOT pay that much for e-juice... I would just vape fruit juice before I did that! I don't mind if the gov't gets a few bucks off me for the benefit I am doing for myself... I mean someone has to pay for the CHIPS program if tobacco users don't, but I will not allow them to bull doze me into a choice I am not all together comfortable with... yanno?
YEAH. Which is why we need to be writing to our congress critters FREQUENTLY. Nicotine users unite against government oppression!
Tbob, the bill did say someting about 10oz or less, maybe you can order 3 cans at a time..
The Post Office will have to go up on it's stamps and postage again from all the business they will be losing over this bill. I read the other day they are going broke again. More "no new taxes". It's just an increase in postage, only a few pennies.
The Post Office will have to go up on it's stamps and postage again from all the business they will be losing over this bill. I read the other day they are going broke again. More "no new taxes". It's just an increase in postage, only a few pennies.
You are right but I would be disappointed without the nicotine. Are there any tobacco flavorings available (like Tennessee cured) or a decent substitute like caramel mixed with vanilla?
By far the easiest and purest flavoring is Menthol (crystals - Mentha Arvensis) which are cheap as all get-out, and little goes a long way. I got mine at a place (along with VG and PG) for $11.50 for 8 OZ!!!! That's a lifetime supply. The crystal dissolve in PG (slowly), or you can dissolve them in grain alcohol 1 to 1 and add to PG/VG mix which also thins the juice a bit (a good thing)
Good luck.
Jim
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