Have I lost my marbles?

Status
Not open for further replies.

3mg Meniere

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 24, 2013
6,493
65,098
75
Tomah Wisconsin
I make unflavored juice, and add flavorings as needed. I store that in pint canning jars. I store my 48mg base in its original container in a dark cabinet, but it will be in a canning jar ( well-labeled) in a few minutes. According to some people, exposure to air is a concern. Would it be worthwhile, as I remove juice/base, to add marbles to the jars to reduce exposure to air?
 

GMayberry

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 28, 2014
776
378
Virginia
I have never thought about that but in theory I would think it could work. I have just always moved it to smaller jars as I used more of it. My only concern would be some kind of taste transfer, but if they are glass marbles and have been cleaned well and boiled, I wouldn't think there could be any concern. Maybe someone else has tried this and can jump in as well.
 

jakematic

Super Member
Verified Member
Jun 1, 2014
794
1,867
Squonk Bottom Flats, NC
Would it be worthwhile, as I remove juice/base, to add marbles to the jars to reduce exposure to air?

My opinion is it won't really change much as only the top surface is exposed.
No matter the headspace, the surface area would remain largely the same unless the jars taper significantly.

Even if you used narrow mouth jars, I would not expect a huge difference.
You may end up aerating the juice/base more by introducing marbles.


And now my brain hurts combining food storage, saltwater aquaria, and vaping concepts :laugh:


Edit: If you wanted to get really crazy you'd flood the jars with an inert and heavy gas like CO2
 
Last edited:

VapieDan

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 30, 2013
3,295
4,029
Flint, Michigan, United States
I make unflavored juice, and add flavorings as needed. I store that in pint canning jars. I store my 48mg base in its original container in a dark cabinet, but it will be in a canning jar ( well-labeled) in a few minutes. According to some people, exposure to air is a concern. Would it be worthwhile, as I remove juice/base, to add marbles to the jars to reduce exposure to air?

Don't forget about temperature as well. The cooler the better.
 

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
Would it be worthwhile, as I remove juice/base, to add marbles to the jars to reduce exposure to air?

Spectacular idea! Reminds me of a children's story involving a raven and a bottle of water.

My only concern would be some kind of taste transfer, but if they are glass marbles and have been cleaned well and boiled ...

I believe I would just steam them after a good washing in warm water and dish washing liquid. As for details (boiled or steamed) use distilled water for its lack of minerals.

My opinion is it won't really change much as only the top surface is exposed.

True, however the quantity of available oxygen is greatly reduced, I expect this matters some in the oxidation process.

Edit: If you wanted to get really crazy you'd flood the jars with an inert and heavy gas like CO2

Unfortunately I don't think you can do this very effectively in a DIY sort of way, I believe reduction in head space to near zero would achieve at least the same effect if not better.

I would love to own a vacuum chamber and nitrogen purge system, I just don't think it would be very effective for liquid storage.

Maurice
 

jakematic

Super Member
Verified Member
Jun 1, 2014
794
1,867
Squonk Bottom Flats, NC
True, however the quantity of available oxygen is greatly reduced, I expect this matters some in the oxidation process.

True. I guess it depends on how long the container would be in this state as well.
A reduction in temperature would likely help slow the oxidization.


I would love to own a vacuum chamber and nitrogen purge system, I just don't think it would be very effective for liquid storage.

Oh no no no no.... I don't need more hobbies and equipment.
Then again there is that home freezedryer I saw the other day in a magazine :D
 

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
There was a post here on ECF some time ago that detailed out the whole nicotine storage issue, it pretty much boiled down to little or no head space to reduce oxygen exposure to the liquid, a sealed glass container, protection from light, and freezer storage. Those factors used together were expected to keep nicotine quality from altering in any noticeable way for years, I think the presumption was 4 years or more.

FYI I am not affiliated with Wizard Labs, I'm a customer that had a positive experience with their tech support.


I ordered some some DIY supplies from Wizard Labs and used their tech support form to ask whether the freezer or room temp (72-78F) was better for storing nicotine base to maximize shelf life. The response went above and beyond what I asked, but served me as a good primer on proper storage. Thought some folks here might find it useful information. I shortened the authors name to initials because I wasn't sure about posting someone else's name online. This is his response:




Thanks for the enquiry.
Just to clarify, nicotine doesn't have a shelf life as is normally used in
the food industry.
It won't spoil, and be unsafe to consume like a food product.
In the chemical industry, the "expiration date", or retest date, is usually
based on prior stability testing to indicate when a chemical, or solution
should be retested to assure it still meets the original specs for usage.


Nicotine will oxidize in reaction to oxygen, light, heat, and moisture to
form nicotine oxides.
These oxides are strongly colored, and are responsible for the yellow,
brown, and sometimes pink or red shades that you may see develop in nicotine
solutions over time.
In addition to the color change, the solution may develop a stronger
characteristic nicotine aroma, and taste which might interfere with very
light, or delicate flavorings.
When this happens it doesn't mean that a solution is now unusable, but
depending on individual tastes, you may find a heavily oxidized solution
only suitable for use with tobaccos (some find this even preferable), or
other strong flavorings.


While you cannot completely prevent the oxidation process once the pure
extract has been opened and mixed, there are a few storage procedures you
can follow to reduce exposure, and keep the solution as close to it's
original state for the longest period of time as possible.


Nicotine solutions should be stored in amber glass containers with a tight
fitting cap to prevent exposure to oxygen, light, and moisture.
If a nicotine solution is going to be used immediately over the course of a
few weeks, leaving it in the plastic shipping container is acceptable, but
if longer storage is needed, the solution should be transferred into glass
containers due to their superior oxygen barrier, and non-reactive
properties.
*** NOTE: Always properly label any rebottled solutions and chemicals! ***


To avoid repeated exposure of the entire solution to oxygen and moisture
during use, we recommend that the solution be divided up among several
smaller amber glass bottles instead of stored in one large bottle.
This way, you can take one small bottle from storage for short term use
while leaving the other bottles sealed, and untouched until needed at a
later date.
Store the filled amber glass bottles in a freezer to help slow down
molecular movement, and chemical reactions in the solution.
When filling the amber glass bottles, leave a minimal air space at the top
of the neck (approximately 1/4") for possible heat expansion when the bottle
is removed from cold storage, and allowed to warm to room temperature again.


Storage and handling recommendations are the same for both propylene glycol,
and glycerin based nicotine solutions.


On a side note, during our stability testing we've consistently witnessed
faster oxidation of VG based solutions in comparison to PG based solutions.
Whether this is due to a difference of hygroscopic properties, retention of
microbubbles during mixing, or other factors is unknown, but I thought I'd
include that for your own interest.


Thanks again for the good questions, and if we can be of any further help
just let me know.


Best regards,


J. M.
Wizard Labs



Maurice
 
Last edited:

3mg Meniere

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Mar 24, 2013
6,493
65,098
75
Tomah Wisconsin
little or no head space to reduce oxygen exposure to the liquid,
That is what I thought, I must have read it, too. Seems like marbles would be the best way to do it. It seems that there would be more wasted in the act of transferring it to progressively smaller bottles.

In my detailed description of the problem and solution, I did mention that I have almost no freezer space to spare. Although the trunk of my car serves fine in the winter.
 
Last edited:

Maurice Pudlo

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Nov 27, 2013
1,601
2,232
United States
That is what I thought, I must have read it, too. Seems like marbles would be the best way to do it. It seems that there would be more wasted in the act of transferring it to progressively smaller bottles.

In my detailed description of the problem and solution, I did mention that I have almost no freezer space to spare. Although the trunk of my car serves fine in the winter.

In your case I'd just keep the liquid in the coolest area of your home, possibly in an insulated container to slow the temperature changes the nicotine will experience. In my home that would be the basement, however I do have a second freezer that tends to house an odd assortment of frozen food for my animals and my e-liquid supplies.

Maurice
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread