Hello from Houston

[Jeff M]

New vaper here. Started about 10 days ago. Too bad not allowed to post in other forums, yet.

I am tinkering around with juices to figure out differences. So far, it seems VG is a bit harsh, and PG is rather smooth. VG gives a peppery sensation on the tongue and around the mouth. PG does not seem to do that.

My main concern is that no studies have proven vaping to be safe or unsafe. The fact that they are in frosting, syrups and other edibles does not mean much. The digestive tract contains organs with different sensibilities and functions than the respiratory tract. Only short-term studies have been done concerning inhalation of PG.

These 8 week studies probably don't mean a lot. You could take a group of non-smokers and introduce them to cigarettes for 8 weeks and prove very little by way of trying to project the results to what 30 years of use might do.

Then, you have a handful of vapers complaining of shortness of breath which they attribute to vaping. It's worthwhile to follow them and hear what they say, but again, it will be a long and difficult road before the jury comes back. Just as with smoking cigarettes, you have people who have smoked 30 years and tolerate it well, whereas a number of 10-year smokers hack their lungs out. So.... time will tell, and I remain optimistic but wanting to know more.

That said, I feel I am already breathing better. No more tickle/wheeze when I try and take a deep breath. No more dry cough in my sleep.

 

[Scoper50]

Sure, we don't know the long term effects of inhaling PG/VG. But we know it's better than lighting tobacco on fire and inhaling the smoke. When you smoke a cigarette, there is no mistaking it. You are doing something very unhealthy. It just feels unhealthy. Your body knows it. When you are vaping, it doesn't feel unhealthy like it's damaging your body. Just the simple fact that new vapors experience the same effects of somebody quitting smoking the traditional way is remarkable. Sense of taste and smell comes back. You have more stamina. And best of all you can BREATH better. I think there is a small sliver of a chance that we might find that long term vaping causes heath problems, but I'm willing to take my chances. I'm willing to do that because I know that beyond a shadow of a doubt that lighting tobacco on fire will ultimately put me in an early grave.

 

[Jeff M]

Yeah, I certainly remain optimistic. I just wonder what happens to vaporized PG when it hits the lungs? I think I read something somewhere where it was said that combusted PG becomes lactic acid. I just wonder if there is more information on that. PG is oily (seemingly). Water vapor condenses to water. Does vaporized PG condense to PG? Any chemists in the house?

 

[DontBurnIt]

After 6 weeks of vaping, my lungs are much clearer, I breathe better, and I don't wake up coughing and gagging. I use liquids from several vendors, all types of flavors, and various pg/vg levels.

 

[bacc.vap]

Hello and welcome. It's true that we're taking a risk, but considering all we know about smoking, it's a risk I'm willing to take. I smoked for a couple of decades and started coughing and getting bouts of Bronchitis after just a few years. It's been over a year and a half since I've started vaping now and those things are gone, and have been since shortly after I started vaping. The only negative affect I've had so far is a two week period of shortness of breathe, like you mentioned, which happened when I started using 100% VG juice for an extended period of time. It went away as soon after I went back to PG dominate juice. Occasionally I'll get some mucous build in my throat when I'm sleeping, but it hochs up with little effort. It's disguting, but I'm not to worried about that. Once again, welcome to ECF.

 

[Jeff M]

Thanks for the replies. I doubt we'll be get the actual science we need for quite some time, and so it is good to hear the experiences of long-term vapers - especially those who smoked a long time, definitely felt the damage to their lungs and definitely improved after switching.

 

[Heavyrocker]

Im concerned more about the flavourings.

 

[bacc.vap]

Im concerned more about the flavourings.

Rightly so, there's many more variables in the flavorings.

 

[Ryedan]

You are asking all the right questions Jeff! And welcome to ECF.

Here are a couple of links to more info:

Ecigs don't harm heart.

Opposition to e-cigarettes - a health risk analysis.


There 's a whole lot more on ECF and on the web. Search and you will find.

 

[DeathsMistress]

One thing you can do to help with this concern is participating in surveys and eventually medical testing when those studies come up. There are sections on the forum devoted to just that issue.

 

[Nighthawk76]

Hi Jeff and welcome. I'm another noob who quit on day one with a PV. 20 year smoker. I'm also concerned, but my logic follows the others who posted, and the opinion from various health organizations as reported on Wikipedia made me feel more assured.

Electronic cigarette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good luck, and happy vaping!!

 

[Ryedan]

Rightly so, there's many more variables in the flavorings.

That's what I think too bacc. The pg and vg seem to be safe, though we have no long term data from habitual users of these either. It's the flavorings that are questionable for a lot of us. Of course, I could vape pg, vg and nic only and I do that sometimes for a while, but it does get old after a while when I think of all the flavors I'm missing out on

 

[Heavyrocker]

Rightly so, there's many more variables in the flavorings.

you can use unflavored juice and extract your own flavourings from organic sources like coffe or tea,i know how to do it.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/toweknee/3495-extraction-process.html

 

[Ch3v]

Welcome to the forums

 

[Jeff M]

I'm also concerned, but my logic follows the others who posted, and the opinion from various health organizations as reported on Wikipedia made me feel more assured.

Electronic cigarette - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good luck, and happy vaping!!

Thanks, everyone. I just want to point this out because it's a very common statement.

First, and I am not trying to be an alarmist (I am going to continue vaping). There is no logic to follow. There are no long-term studies of inhalation. A 10-minute study is nothing. A 14-week study is next to nothing. Folks, we are talking about wanting to know what happens after decades. I was still breathing fine and feeling spry 14 weeks into my analogue habit. The old folks who smoked were the ones to watch. They'd even warn you if you'd bother to listen.

All of those health organizations who are putting out statements and claiming to have done studies..... It's all quackery. They are not scientific. They analyze the vapor and say, "Yep! It's PG, and we eat PG." Big deal. ... is that it? Let's talk about inhaling PG for 20 years. That's a bit more relevant.

E-cigs have been around for long enough that at least a 5-year study group could have been followed. Why this has not been done is beyond me. I think these health groups don't want to know. Kind of like the time when Maxwell Smart finally caught Siegfried. He let him go when he found out the end of Kaos meant the end of Control.

 

[Jeff M]

One thing you can do to help with this concern is participating in surveys and eventually medical testing when those studies come up. There are sections on the forum devoted to just that issue.

This is correct. There is no proper scientific analysis as of yet. Googling for science on this stuff is only to be done in van. I totally agree with your advice. Hopefully, these surveys will be properly-framed.

 

[Nighthawk76]

Thanks, everyone. I just want to point this out because it's a very common statement.

There is no logic to follow. There are no long-term studies of inhalation. A 10-minute study is nothing. A 14-week study is next to nothing. Folks, we are talking about wanting to know what happens after decades. I was still breathing fine and feeling spry 14 weeks into my analogue habit. The old folks who smoked were the ones to watch. They'd even warn you if you'd bother to listen.

All of those health organizations who are putting out statements and claiming to have done studies..... It's all quackery. They are not scientific. They analyze the vapor and say, "Yep! It's PG, and we eat PG." Big deal. ... is that it? Let's talk about inhaling PG for 20 years. That's a bit more relevant.

I politely disagree. There is logic to follow. Here is an analogy, and specifically, this is my intention.

If one is quitting cigarettes via a cessation program utilizing electronic cigarettes with gradual decreasing doses of nicotine with the eventuality of quitting all inhalation of any product, say for arguments sake within 1 year, logically (interrelation or sequence of facts or events when seen as inevitable or predictable) this would be FAR healthier given the known facts derived from decades of tobacco research in comparison to the short term data of clinical studies conducted to date. There are hundreds of medical and expert opinions out there if you look, and specifically this study, http://www.healthnz.co.nz/DublinEcigBenchtopHandout.pdf documents the exact compounds in a particular manufacturer's e-cigs vs. tobacco cigarettes. Again, applied logic would derive that since many of these chemicals do not exist in vapour, at the very least, e-cigs are safer than tobacco cigarettes.

My 2 cents.

 

[Jeff M]

I would agree with your point, but only to the extent you have suggested that people stop vaping after a short period. Obviously, no vaping = no vaping risk.

My point was raised for those of us who think we've found a new, long-term replacement.

On the point of chemicals, I disagree that those simplistic chemical analyses tell us much of anything. Ecigs contain chemicals that are not in analogs. Further, they contain some identical chemicals, but in greater concentrations. Either of these 2 factors, alone, can make a huge difference. If nobody knows what long-term inhalation of PG does (because there are no reports of data for it), then, we simply do not know.

It is quite possible that we are trading between risks, and it is even possible that PG in the higher doses we get (or VG if that's your preference) is worse for you.

I think it is not a good idea to talk about all those 4,000 - 6,000 chemicals in cigarettes, like ant poison, formaldehyde, etc. This sot of talk was ginned-up long ago by a fellow named Simon Chapman, and you ca find references to it being called the "Chapman trick." The trick is to mention all those things - formaldehyde, ant poison, ad nauseum, to get people to think of mass, acute exposure. The fact is that the dosage of each of those chemicals is so small as to allow people to consume them for several decades before serious damage can occur.

We vapers need to be aware that risk is still there. What we inhale is definitely not a cigarette, but that does not equate to "better." Let's say there is .000X PG/VG in a cigarette, but there is .5X PG/VG in vaping. Clearly, this difference can be all the difference. It only takes one chemical used the wrong way to create serious danger.

But.... I intend to still go on faith until something (probably my own body) tells me not to.

 

[Jeff M]

There are hundreds of medical and expert opinions out there if you look, and specifically this study, http://www.healthnz.co.nz/DublinEcigBenchtopHandout.pdf documents the exact compounds in a particular manufacturer's e-cigs vs. tobacco cigarettes.

This study does not tell the full story. The author expressly states:

"Selection of toxicants for testing of ecigarette mist. Selection was based on published priority lists of cigarette smoke toxicants..."

It starts out with the premise that anything that could be toxic in vaping must also be present in cigarettes (except nicotine, which he adjusts for). He is looking for only those vapor chemicals which are found in a list of selected cigarette chemicals. The short-version you linked to does not expressly list those chemicals, either. So, how is one to rely on it?

 

[Ryedan]

Jeff, you are absolutely correct in saying that vaping has not been proven safe. Also, I'm not aware of any research going on which is attempting to do accelerated testing on this. There is a whole subsection of the forum devoted to issues like this here. The second link in my earlier post is to a post from that area of the site.

In the end, to vape or not to vape is a decision everyone has to make for themselves. These issues are freely talked about on ECF.