Help with my DIY juices Please!

[lazyymatt]

Hey guys I know this should probably go in the DIY section but every time I post there it gets lost with all the other posts and I don't usually get too many answers. So I wanted to get help from my fellow Reonaut DIYers!

I started DIY a couple weeks ago and it's been going okay. My BIGGEST problem is that the flavors I make don't seem to retain their potency as I vape them.

For example:

I made a real nice flavor a few days ago.

10ml. Bottle

- 10% Blackberry
- 7% Pomegranate
- 3% Blueberry
- 1% EM

(All from Flavor Apprentice)

I let it steep for 2 days and I tested it on my Cisco atty. The flavor was just AWESOME! I was getting a nice berry flavor with the sweet pomegranate on the exhale. I knew this would be a keeper so I threw it in my 6ml Reo bottle and slapped on a new coil/wick for my Hornet and I was in flavor heaven.

Now my problem occurred a day after... I like to use menthol because it really brightens my fruit flavors and the coolness balances out the harshness of the juice. I used (Angel Tears) from Rawr which I think is the concentrated kind that he makes from menthol crystals. I dripped 2-4 drops into my Rep bottle with and now I can barely taste the juice?? It's as if the menthol for some reason just sucks the life out of the flavors (this has happened with another one of my mixes). Is there something in the menthol that is destroying the flavors??

I have also noticed by NOT mentholating I can maintain the flavor for a couple days but it does seem to get weaker with every passing day. I'm wondering if its probably because my palate is too used to the flavor which is not letting me taste the undertones of the juice. It's weird because juices from manufacturers always has full flavor for at least a few days before it dulls out on me (but I can at least still taste the flavors just more dull). With my DIYs they go from being real good full flavor to pretty much nothing.

I just ordered a vial of Smooth from TFA and it is supposed to mellow out the high notes and bring out the background flavor while also mellowing the harshness of the juice so maybe that will help...

I have read Hoosiers blog on the flavoring test and wonder if the 20% total flavoring I'm using is too much and thus losing flavor? Am I not steeping long enough? I even changed my coil configuration and made the coil a lot smaller with less wick which helped for a day but as soon as I put the menthol the flavor disappears. It's been driving me crazy so any help would be appreciated! I have another juice that "lost" it's flavor but it had been steeping for a week now since I made this new flavor so ill probably visit that juice again later tonight.

 

[Sterno]

i have found that after vaping a flavor for a while my taste buds get use to it so i dont think your doing anything wrong

 

[lazyymatt]

Have I friended you yet Sterno?? I swear you always are one of the first to comment on my posts! Very appreciated

I'm gonna try vaping my other juice to see if it is just my taste buds getting too used to the flavor. BUT I normally don't lose the taste within a day! This new juice just tastes like unflavored juice with a HINT of berry after a day. I'll update as I vape my other juices later tonight.

i have found that after vaping a flavor for a while my taste buds get use to it so i dont think your doing anything wrong

 

[JC Okie]

Matt, I have NO experience with menthol, so don't know about that at all. I do agree that my taste buds get used to a flavor then I can't taste it....especially by the end of the day. At bedtime I'll tell myself there's something wrong with my juice, but the next morning (the first vape or two) I'll be knocked over by all the flavor. I think it MIGHT depend on when you try your juices. Just a theory. I know that I usually need at least two different flavors going all the time to trade off.

I usually use about 15% max. of flavoring.....and sometimes (with the super concentrates from Vaping Zone, for instance) much, much less (around 2.5%-3%.) I have heard that too much flavoring will taste like no flavoring. ???? I've also heard (don't know first hand) that Capella's flavorings are the most "forgiving"....whatever that means. I DO know first hand that DIY is a bunch of trial and error, so just keep on keepin' on, as they say. You'll have successes and failures. For me, the juice goes so fast (I vape a LOT) that if I have a bad batch, I usually just vape it anyway. I know this is probably not much help. Sorry.

Jan

 

[lazyymatt]

Jan I have definitely had some mixes that I made that tasted better the next day (after giving my palette a break), but lately that hasn't been the case... I feel like I MIGHT be using too much flavoring... I just assumed that 20% was a good cutoff because I looked at a lot of recipes that people used WITH TFA flavorings and they went up to 20-23%. I'll try lowering my flavorings to 15% to see if that works. I just switched back to another flavor and I definitely taste it, but it is definitely not as strong as when I first vaped it. I feel like there are certain flavors that need to be used minimally and others that require more. This makes it hard to really mix a bunch of flavors together since I'm not sure what a good percentage of each flavor would be good... I'm starting to run out of 10ml bottles and ordered a bunch so when that arrives I'll start making so more flavors. Probably will have to cut my mixes down to 3 flavors MAX. I just don't understand how some of the vendors can make juice that taste really good for a long time.

Not sure if I'm allowed to mention vendors.... but I REALLY like Tropical Paradise from RawR Vapors and I could literally go through 50ml within a week without the flavor dulling. Yet, my mixes cannot seem to maintain that awesome flavor that long. I think I may have to re-visit the last few juices I made and lower the percentage and RE-MAKE them and see if that helps.

Matt, I have NO experience with menthol, so don't know about that at all. I do agree that my taste buds get used to a flavor then I can't taste it....especially by the end of the day. At bedtime I'll tell myself there's something wrong with my juice, but the next morning (the first vape or two) I'll be knocked over by all the flavor. I think it MIGHT depend on when you try your juices. Just a theory. I know that I usually need at least two different flavors going all the time to trade off.

I usually use about 15% max. of flavoring.....and sometimes (with the super concentrates from Vaping Zone, for instance) much, much less (around 2.5%-3%.) I have heard that too much flavoring will taste like no flavoring. ???? I've also heard (don't know first hand) that Capella's flavorings are the most "forgiving"....whatever that means. I DO know first hand that DIY is a bunch of trial and error, so just keep on keepin' on, as they say. You'll have successes and failures. For me, the juice goes so fast (I vape a LOT) that if I have a bad batch, I usually just vape it anyway. I know this is probably not much help. Sorry.

Jan

 

[jeapa]

I am knew to DIY juices so taken advice with that in mind. I read that adding a drop or two of lemon juice to fruity flavors will brighten it up. White vinegar does the same thing to darker tobacco, coffee, or desert flavors. I added 1 drop of vinegar per 5ml to my coffee extracts that I made last weekend and I think it helped a lot.

I still have to switch flavors every other day or so or I lose taste. I generally vape a minty flavor for a day then when I switch back to coffee it tastes great. I hope this helps some.

 

[CATastrophe]

You very well might be using too much flavor. There is a tipping point when adding flavor. Too much flavoring makes it "disappear". For some good pointers check the DIY section and Hoosier's blog. He has great tips!

 

[markfm]

I use primarily organics, weaker, so end up at about 20% total flavoring, but pretty sure that many, if not all, of the FA flavorings are much more concentrated.

The tipping point that CAT mentioned is real, I did that on one mix, overshot and the flavor dropped dramatically.

You might want to try diluting at least a bit of that batch, cut it with plain VG/PG to about 50% of its present strength (1 part plain filler to 1 part eliquid), see if the flavor picks up again.

 

[Rhapsodies Fire]

You are allowed to mention other vendors here as long as you're not bashing on them (the review section on ECF is there for that reason) and as long as you're not advertising for a competitor (so we don't have to deal with flame wars). It's a common courtesy thing.

The above suggestions are good ones, but I'd like to add one more. With some juices, I noticed that adding another element can sometimes cancel out a flavor or two. I did that once with my massive choc mint from AV...added something to it and all the flavor just disappeared. Could be my buds just couldn't handle it, or there really was a cancellation of sorts.

Another issue I've had with flavor degeneration is my wick. After a while, the flavors tend to just fade or turn a little sour. I'm using silica...so when I get to that point, I mop up the excess juice and then just dry burn the hell out of my coil, scrape the carbon off and burn again until my wick turns white (all the juice gets used up). Then I re-juice it and vape blissfully.

 

[Needo]

I notice a diminishing of flavor after two days. After giving my atomizer a good dry-burn, the flavor returns in full force. Do not do this with a cartomizer. You will never get the burnt poly taste out.

 

[lazyymatt]

So I've been switching out flavors and I'm definitely getting it all back. The flavor is definitely not as strong as the first couple days I used them. I THINK it could be because my mixes have been around 20/80 PG VG ratio so the flavors probably are muted with the VG. I just made a new juice at around 40/60 with a little less flavoring (from 21% to 18%) and ill check that one out in a couple days. I'm definitely gonna try the lemon juice but for now I think everything is all good. Thanks for the help everyone.

By the way I JUST drilled my hornet out with a 1/16 and I can't believe I didn't do this sooner! It's hitting so much easier now than before ( I drilled a smaller hole) I'm hoping this helps with the flavors as well. I wish my package of bottles and more flavoringsmcome quickly so I can keep making more recipes

 

[Big Hitter]

I think most of it is the taste buds. I tend to keep 5-6 devices going and vape them all through out the day.
Even if I'm out of the house for the day I take two different ones with me

The other thing might be the atomizer. Would the flavor come back if you re-wick and coil ??
I would check that. I find that my attys loose their flavor after just a few hours from what they started at.

Honestly its hard to keep track with as many as I have going but I would bet I'm re-building attys every 6-8 ml
Good thing its cheap and I have time.

 

[TheAngryBovine]

How high is your nic? I make 18, 24, and 32mg for myself and it seems that flavors drop off significantly after a few days with the stronger juices for some reason. Also, a cpl drops of concentrated lemon or lime juice or vinegar will make flavors pop if you think it needs it.