Hi all! Question: Adding nic shot of different base and strength to 0mg premium juice

[Joobman]

Hi everyone! Vaper from the UK. I've been vaping for 7 weeks without the stinkies and have used the forum for info but now I have a question to post.

With EU TPD laws coming in to effect soon, my favourite UK brand of e juice will be selling 50ml of 0mg nicotine juice and you buy a 10ml nic shot of 18mg VG to make it a 60ml 3mg strength bottle. It's a 80/20 vg/pg juice.

My question is my brother and I have a stock of 72mg nicotine but in PG. Ideally I want to use the nicotine I have instead of buying further shots.
I would need to add 2.5ml of the PG nicotine to make the bottle 3mg nic strength. But this doesn't add up to 60ml as I will have 52.5mg as its a higher strength. Do I need to add unflavoured pg or vg to make it 60ml?? Will this change the composition and flavour of the juice drastically?

Maybe I'm thinking this out wrong and not possible. I'm just trying to be as proactive in cost savings when these draconian laws arrive.

p.s Not sure I should have posted this here or the e juice section

Thanks!

 

[smacuser]

According to the e-liquid calculator I use, to make 60 mls of 20/80vg at 3 mg; you'll need 2.5 mls of 72 mg PG nic, 9.5 mls of PG and 48 mls of VG.

Right?

 

[djsvapour]

Premium juice?

You can add Nicotine base (PG) to zero Nicotine e-liquid, of course. Many people will be doing this from May 20th.

Don't buys 'shots' until you have to. Yes... use your 72mg. Get some more too. 14 days.... and we become slaves to the TPD.

 

[Joobman]

According to the e-liquid calculator I use, to make 60 mls of 20/80vg at 3 mg; you'll need 2.5 mls of 72 mg PG nic, 9.5 mls of PG and 48 mls of VG.

Right?

Yep correct but that is based on 60mls.
Can you see my confusion? How do I make the 50mls they sell into a 3mg strength bottle with my 72mg pg nicotine?

 

[smacuser]

Yep correct but that is based on 60mls. Can you see my confusion? How do I make the 50mls they sell into a 3mg strength bottle with my 72mg pg nicotine?

If you are going to use the 50 ml bottle, I guess you'll need to pour some out and set it aside?

 

[Joobman]

Premium juice?

You can add Nicotine base (PG) to zero Nicotine e-liquid, of course. Many people will be doing this from May 20th.

Don't buys 'shots' until you have to. Yes... use your 72mg. Get some more too. 14 days.... and we become slaves to the TPD.

Getting some more once I find more freezer space from family and friends
I class Wick Liquor juices as premium

 

[Joobman]

If you are going to use the 50 ml bottle, I guess you'll need to pour some out and set it aside?

So I remove 2.5mls from the 50mls and add 2.5mls of my nicotine?

 

[smacuser]

Nicotine juice 72 mg (100% PG) - 2.08 ml
PG dilutant - 7.92 ml
VG dilutant - 40 ml

Totals - 50 ml

Strength: 3 mg
PG/VG-ratio: 20/80
Flavor total: 0 ml / 0g (0%)

But, with this, there would be a 20% loss of your flavor.

 

[smacuser]

assuming your flavor is 100% VG.

 

[Joobman]

assuming your flavor is 100% VG.

Nicotine juice 72 mg (100% PG) - 2.08 ml
PG dilutant - 7.92 ml
VG dilutant - 40 ml

Totals - 50 ml

Strength: 3 mg
PG/VG-ratio: 20/80
Flavor total: 0 ml / 0g (0%)

But, with this, there would be a 20% loss of your flavor.

Appreciate you looking into this for me! Cheers!
I guess I will have to accept the slight flavour loss. Time to look in to DIY juices!

 

[smacuser]

Appreciate you looking into this for me! Cheers! I guess I will have to accept the slight flavour loss. Time to look in to DIY juices!

Yeah. I've been making my own since September.

If you highlight and search google: e-liquid calculator, you'll see the site where I pulled my info.

 

[90VG]

This is tricky because you don't know how big the batch is until you add the nicotine, which in this case is the amount that were are trying to calculate....

I worked this out mathematically and tested on a spreadsheet the following cases:

72 mg/ml nic supply, with 50 ml of base (no nic)

I added the following amounts of nicotine to the batch, knowing what the result would be

0 ml = 0 mg/ml
50 ml = 36 mg/ml ( this is obvious, you just cut it in half )
100 ml = 48 mg/ml ( Now 2/3 of it is nicotine, 1/3 base, hence 2/3 of nic 48
10000000 ml = 71.9999 mg/ml

I then worked out the formula for this effect.

S = Source Nicotine Level mg/ml
B = Base volume (your juice from store) ml (0 nic)
A = Amount to Add of Nicotine (ml)
R = Resultant Nicotine Level.

R = S*A/(B+A)

The after testing, it worked, but now we have to flip this around so that we solve for the amount of Nicotine to add....

(Slight moment with mechanical pencil and paper)

A = R*B/(S-R)


Amount = Result * Base / ( NicLevel - Result)

In this case, we fill in the numbers:

Amount to Add = 3 * 50 / ( 72 - 3)

Drum roll................

2.174 ml

So if you got a bottle of 50 ml, See if you have room to add 2.174 ml of the 72, and you now have 3mg/ml

Here is the paper:

20170506_122609.jpg

 

[Joobman]

This is tricky because you don't know how big the batch is until you add the nicotine, which in this case is the amount that were are trying to calculate....

I worked this out mathematically and tested on a spreadsheet the following cases:

72 mg/ml nic supply, with 50 ml of base (no nic)

I added the following amounts of nicotine to the batch, knowing what the result would be

0 ml = 0 mg/ml
50 ml = 36 mg/ml ( this is obvious, you just cut it in half )
100 ml = 48 mg/ml ( Now 2/3 of it is nicotine, 1/3 base, hence 2/3 of nic 48
10000000 ml = 71.9999 mg/ml

I then worked out the formula for this effect.

S = Source Nicotine Level mg/ml
B = Base volume (your juice from store) ml (0 nic)
A = Amount to Add of Nicotine (ml)
R = Resultant Nicotine Level.

R = S*A/(B+A)

The after testing, it worked, but now we have to flip this around so that we solve for the amount of Nicotine to add....

(Slight moment with mechanical pencil and paper)

A = R*B/(S-R)


Amount = Result * Base / ( NicLevel - Result)

In this case, we fill in the numbers:

Amount to Add = 3 * 50 / ( 72 - 3)

Drum roll................

2.174 ml

So if you got a bottle of 50 ml, See if you have room to add 2.174 ml of the 72, and you now have 3mg/ml

Here is the paper:

20170506_122609.jpg

Wow, I wasn't expecting this level of detail. Much appreciated!! This is why I joined this forum!
The 50ml bottle has room for a further 10ml. So 2.174 ml would be no issue. By adding and not removing from the original 50mls I assume I wouldn't have flavour loss your way?

With the ridiculous regulations in the horizon I think its important to know as many workarounds as possible.

 

[SteveS45]

I not too long ago got a 60ML of Zero and it needed nicotine because I wasn't thrilled with it at Zero. Added enough of my 48MG to make it 3MG and found the flavor wasn't diluted but enhanced by the nicotine. YMMV

 

[WillyZee]

mix 2ml of 72mg with the 50ml of zero ejuice

you likely won't even notice a change in flavour ... it will be extremely close to 3mg

 

[90VG]

Wow, I wasn't expecting this level of detail. Much appreciated!! This is why I joined this forum!
The 50ml bottle has room for a further 10ml. So 2.174 ml would be no issue. By adding and not removing from the original 50mls I assume I wouldn't have flavour loss your way?

With the ridiculous regulations in the horizon I think its important to know as many workarounds as possible.

You are welcome.

Yeah, you would have 2.174/52.174 = 4% flavor loss.

I didn't really do it for you, I was just wondering if I could figure it out without starting with any preexisting equations. So off to excel for some test cases, noticed a pattern, tested it, solved for the proper variable and I have an equation I can use for myself now. Then I posted it for you. That sheet of paper goes into the "Vape" file.

 

[djsvapour]

mix 2ml of 72mg with the 50ml of zero ejuice

you likely won't even notice a change in flavour ... it will be extremely close to 3mg

Good answer. Once us UK vapers are down to 3mg level, you just throw in the small amount of nic base into a large bottle of 'legal' zero nic juice and vape on.
(From 20th May).
It doesn't matter if you want to add it to the bottle or vape a little bit first.
This is the problem with 18mg Nic 'shots' it's going to require complicated mixing as you'll need 4 times as much nic base. Very annoying.
Vapers who miss the boat on 72mg or run out next year or whenever are going to need to get jiggy with the damn calculator.

 

[smacuser]

I'm not with it today. I failed to see the zero nic juice was 20/80 to begin with

 

[BrotherBob]

Appreciate you looking into this for me! Cheers!
I guess I will have to accept the slight flavour loss. Time to look in to DIY juices!

Welcome and glad you joined.
Here is a quick look,might like to visit:
Getting Started: DIY 101 – Mixing Your Own eLiquid
http://diyordievaping.com/category/latestnews/beginnertips/
DIY E-Juice Resources: Over 100+ DIY E-Juice Resources – E Juice Makers
Could read the stickies in this forum:
DIY E-Liquid
Here a thread you might like to check:
UK Forum

 

[Stewart Jarvis-Grove]

Good answer. Once us UK vapers are down to 3mg level, you just throw in the small amount of nic base into a large bottle of 'legal' zero nic juice and vape on.
(From 20th May).
It doesn't matter if you want to add it to the bottle or vape a little bit first.
This is the problem with 18mg Nic 'shots' it's going to require complicated mixing as you'll need 4 times as much nic base. Very annoying.
Vapers who miss the boat on 72mg or run out next year or whenever are going to need to get jiggy with the damn calculator.

I'm dreading the day i run out of 72mg nic. I'm hoping we will have left the EU by then and the law is thrown out but accept the chances of that are slim