Hi

[Fanny74]

Hiya, I went back to the shop, and they agreed it had somehow been burnt. He checked the mod, battery and rda, and didn't know how it had happened, as it all looked ok. He offered a "no quibble" swap for a new rda, (I picked a different make n model, (once bitten twice shy))
Thanks everyone for your advice.

 

[opticruby]

Hiya, I went back to the shop, and they agreed it had somehow been burnt. He checked the mod, battery and rda, and didn't know how it had happened, as it all looked ok. He offered a "no quibble" swap for a new Rda, (I picked a different make n model, (once bitten twice shy))
Thanks everyone for your advice.

I'm glad to hear you got it sorted out. I was reading through your thread earlier and it had me puzzled as to the cause. I was about to ask if any O-rings were melted but as you've got it sorted all-ready, all is well.

 

[GBalkam]

To be honest, I've been vaping for 9 months now, and using a mech for about 4. I have no problem building cloud chasing coil builds (read lower resistance than I am going to mention so I don't give new vapers stupid ideas) but I wouldn't use those multicell mechs. I really see no reason to. For me anyway. I figure, using a mech is about building better coils, not adding more batteries, for clouds anyway. I saw a video where some guy was using a custom built mech mod.. 10 freekin batteries in that thing! And his clouds were no bigger than what I can do on 1 cell.
This thing is insane! LOL there is like $120 worth of batteries in that thing. ($12 each around here)


It kind of puts me in mind of something you might see on that show "Jackass"

 

[dcfluegel]

Hiya, I went back to the shop, and they agreed it had somehow been burnt. He checked the mod, battery and rda, and didn't know how it had happened, as it all looked ok. He offered a "no quibble" swap for a new Rda, (I picked a different make n model, (once bitten twice shy))
Thanks everyone for your advice.

tbh, i have both the goon and the apocalypse, overall prefer the goon

 

[Zutankhamun]

I am late and glad you are getting the problem resolved.
I read that you have been vaping a year and so I don't want to be condescending but if you have only been using a simple rig up until this point and you can't build yourself yet it seems like a bad idea for the shop to give you both a hybrid setup and a build that low for that battery.

Yes, you can push batteries as you want but to be pulling 22 from that battery on a hybrid mech?
Like the others have said make sure you have a look and read through the Mooch posts to gather a good idea of which batteries do what and how to be safe.
BTW, nearly 25A for that build when that cell comes off the charger. For me that's a no no.

Aside from all that. Welcome
A fellow Brit here.



I didn't know there was a page 2...
Sos, glad you got it sorted.

But still. Check your builds and batteries now
VapeCalc

 

[Eskie]

Hiya, I went back to the shop, and they agreed it had somehow been burnt. He checked the mod, battery and rda, and didn't know how it had happened, as it all looked ok. He offered a "no quibble" swap for a new Rda, (I picked a different make n model, (once bitten twice shy))
Thanks everyone for your advice.

Glad they backed up their sale. That's a lot of money to be out. Did they also replace the mech, or are you still using the hybrid?

 

[GBalkam]

I am late and glad you are getting the problem resolved.
I read that you have been vaping a year and so I don't want to be condescending but if you have only been using a simple rig up until this point and you can't build yourself yet it seems like a bad idea for the shop to give you both a hybrid setup and a build that low for that battery.

Yes, you can push batteries as you want but to be pulling 22 from that battery on a hybrid mech?
Like the others have said make sure you have a look and read through the Mooch posts to gather a good idea of which batteries do what and how to be safe.
BTW, nearly 25A when that cell comes off the charger. For me that's a no no.

Aside from all that. Welcome
A fellow Brit here.

She's fine at 22. Well within the limits of the cell she is using. It has a nice low heat up rating. The best way to tell if your amps are ok, is take the battery(s) out after the first pull and check the temp, then on again on the 3rd pull and every 3rd pull until you have 9 pulls. If they haven't gotten hot by then, you're fine. Of course, I only tell people to use samsung,lg and sony batteries for this exact reason. Remember, those charts list constant discharge rates, but we don't constantly discharge our batteries, we vape by pulsing them.
I would prefer that she weren't using a hybrid mod due to the risk of a hard short from a short +pin in the atty, but even then, with good batteries, she should have lots of time to drop the mod before anything bad happens. Oh the batteries and mod would be screwed, but they can be replaced.

 

[Zutankhamun]

She's fine at 22. Well within the limits of the cell she is using. It has a nice low heat up rating. The best way to tell if your amps are ok, is take the battery(s) out after the first pull and check the temp, then on again on the 3rd pull and every 3rd pull until you have 9 pulls. If they haven't gotten hot by then, you're fine. Of course, I only tell people to use samsung,lg and sony batteries for this exact reason. Remember, those charts list constant discharge rates, but we don't constantly discharge our batteries, we vape by pulsing them.
I would prefer that she weren't using a hybrid mod due to the risk of a hard short from a short +pin in the atty, but even then, with good batteries, she should have lots of time to drop the mod before anything bad happens. Oh the batteries and mod would be screwed, but they can be replaced.

Well I hope she leans towards Eskie or my own advice as opposed to your own.
Would you hold a mobile phone to your ear and then periodically check if the phone gets hot before you decide it isn't safe to use?
Edit: bad analogy, but it's not so much the specifics of the battery.
Rather this haphazard way of checking if your safe.
Particularly when helping a newb.

As well, if the lady can't build yet why would you give the advice that she should linger in the danger zones?
Perhaps it would be better if she learnt what the batteries can do, how to treat them, and then perhaps slowly advance

Another thing. Why would you advise her to work with the pulse rather than the continuous? What if she once, and only once, forgets to lock her device.
Edit: that's all the problem she needs

I suppose as long as she works within the timeframe of 9 or so seconds she'll be okay.

I don't agree with you and I think these rigs and batteries should be treated with more respect than you give them.

I use a mech everyday, and the tiny throw on my paps v4 went a bit funny and it started firing. I only noticed when I took my earphones out.
Lucky for me, I was working on the continuous.

Also, I think I'm right in saying that the cdr decreases with time.
If you have an old cell you have less of a margin of error to work with.
I'd imagine it's the same with pulse. So your 9 secs will turn into 5.
Not good

Last edit: I don't really understand you. You are still working with the pulse rating in mind. Whether you pulse the mod intermittently (like in real life) surely you are working with either the pulse rating or cdr in mind. The cdr is obviously the correct way to go.
Again particularly for a newb.

 

[BrotherBob]

Hiya, I went back to the shop, and they agreed it had somehow been burnt. He checked the mod, battery and rda, and didn't know how it had happened, as it all looked ok. He offered a "no quibble" swap for a new Rda, (I picked a different make n model, (once bitten twice shy))
Thanks everyone for your advice.

Welcome and glad you joined. Glad everything worked out.

 

[medleypat]

The other problem with pulse ratings is you don't know the pulse cycle. If you take a battery and fire it for 2 sec. then let it rest for 10 sec. might be fine if you take the same battery and fire it for 10 sec. then let it rest for 2 sec. bad things could happen.

 

[GBalkam]

Well I hope she leans towards Eskie or my own advice as opposed to your own.
Would you hold a mobile phone to your ear and then periodically check if the phone gets hot before you decide it isn't safe to use?

As well, if the lady can't build yet why would you give the advice that she should linger in the danger zones?
Perhaps it would be better if she learnt what the batteries can do, how to treat them, and then perhaps slowly advance.

Another thing. Why would you advise her to work with the pulse rather than the continuous? What if she once, and only once, forgets to lock her device, or falls asleep, or drops it down the sofa, or in the car and she can't get to it in time?

I suppose as long as she works within the timeframe of 9 or so seconds she'll be okay.

I don't agree with you and I think these rigs and batteries should be treated with more respect than you give them.

I use a mech everyday, and the tiny throw on my paps v4 went a bit funny and it started firing. I only noticed when I took my earphones out.
Lucky for me, I was working on the continuous.

Also, I think I'm right in saying that the cdr decreases with time.
If you have an old cell you have less of a margin of error to work with.
I'd imagine it's the same with pulse. So your 9 secs will turn into 5.
Not good

A mobile phone is not a high drain, high amp battery. Nor does it have the same internal chemistry. Now, it just so happens, that I know the internal chemistry of that battery, I know that it will heat beyond 212F before venting, I know it has been tested far above 22 amps for a 5 second pulse. I also use information contained here.. The Best 18650 Batteries for Vaping authored BY Mooch, and have discussed this subject with mooch. Lets just say that conversation was about more than +2 amps.
I did not say "pulse rating" I said, we pulse our mods. Big difference.
As for dropping it in the couch, etc.. what happens if she does that anyway, regardless of the build, juice burns off, wick catches fire, ignites the couch? You can't deal with what ifs, you have to be cautious and avoid them. Just like smoking in bed. You just don't do it.
All I am saying, is on the cell she is using, with the chemistry it has, +2 amp isn't anything to panic about. Don't scare the girl over nothing.
Now, I can't post Mooches stress tests on that battery. Telling someone +2 amps over CDR is ok is one thing, but saying this battery can do Xamps for Y seconds is another matter.
By the way.. 22 amps is only 0.19 ohm resistance. Within the 0.15 to 0.30 ohm range we suggest as safe building resistances.

LOL There is a lot here I can't say in this thread, it is more advanced info so I am sticking strictly to the numbers on the board. All I can say, is I use those batteries and have researched the hell out of them. I will say, I wouldn't tell the OP the same thing if she were using a rebranded battery, like efest, for example. regardless of what CDR was printed on the label.
Anyway, there is more that I can't post here. PM me if you want more info. Or just allow that I have done extensive research on that battery and wouldn't tell someone anything that I felt was dangerous.

 

[GBalkam]

The other problem with pulse ratings is you don't know the pulse cycle. If you take a battery and fire it for 2 sec. then let it rest for 10 sec. might be fine if you take the same battery and fire it for 10 sec. then let it rest for 2 sec. bad things could happen.

First, I never said "pulse rating". I said we vape by pulsing our mod. In other words, we don't tape the fire button down and suck it like a hookah until the battery goes dead.
As for firing the battery for 2 seconds.. you better be damn good and sure of what the bench and stress tests and internal chemistry of that battery is, before pressing that fire button. Same goes for 10 seconds. Just for example, one person was asking why his battery wouldn't charge on the usb port. Problem was, he was using a 4A flashlight battery, and that usb probably saved his ..... Fire that thing for 2 seconds at 0.25 ohm (roughly, a 20 amp draw) and what do you think will happen? Gotta know them batteries.
Now mind you, I agree about staying within the CDR of the battery, however, going 2 amps over a 20A cdr on a samsung 25R isn't something to panic about. It can handle it, easily. For more info you have to dig deeper into mooches blog and battery info. All the tests are there (Thanks Mooch).
Again, keep in mind there is a lot of information I can't give here. For example, I can't say what build I am using. What is perfectly safe for me, might not be safe for the next person. And there is a lot of information every user has to dig up and learn for them self. See, there is a difference between two 20A 2000Mah batteries. (different brands and types). Me telling someone the difference isn't much good, they need to know where to find it on their own.

 

[Zutankhamun]

A mobile phone is not a high drain, high amp battery. Nor does it have the same internal chemistry. Now, it just so happens, that I know the internal chemistry of that battery, I know that it will heat beyond 212F before venting, I know it has been tested far above 22 amps for a 5 second pulse. I also use information contained here.. The Best 18650 Batteries for Vaping authored BY Mooch, and have discussed this subject with mooch. Lets just say that conversation was about more than +2 amps.
I did not say "pulse rating" I said, we pulse our mods. Big difference.
As for dropping it in the couch, etc.. what happens if she does that anyway, regardless of the build, juice burns off, wick catches fire, ignites the couch? You can't deal with what ifs, you have to be cautious and avoid them. Just like smoking in bed. You just don't do it.
All I am saying, is on the cell she is using, with the chemistry it has, +2 amp isn't anything to panic about. Don't scare the girl over nothing.
Now, I can't post Mooches stress tests on that battery. Telling someone +2 amps over CDR is ok is one thing, but saying this battery can do Xamps for Y seconds is another matter.
By the way.. 22 amps is only 0.19 ohm resistance. Within the 0.15 to 0.30 ohm range we suggest as safe building resistances.

LOL There is a lot here I can't say in this thread, it is more advanced info so I am sticking strictly to the numbers on the board. All I can say, is I use those batteries and have researched the hell out of them. I will say, I wouldn't tell the OP the same thing if she were using a rebranded battery, like efest, for example. regardless of what CDR was printed on the label.
Anyway, there is more that I can't post here. PM me if you want more info. Or just allow that I have done extensive research on that battery and wouldn't tell someone anything that I felt was dangerous.

Doesn't really bother me if you want to quote more numbers that at least you have researched.

From the op I have deduced (perhaps, incorrectly) that the posters safety measures and information in regards to hybrids, rdas and high drain batteries is not as comprehensive as your own. She has relied on the shop that she made her purchase to give her the correct batteries for quite a low build.

If the OP feels the need to correct my thoughts then I would retract what I have said.
Until that time, I will stand by what I said and not encourage the op who asked about scorch marks on her atty to vape at the maximum of what their 18650 can give them.

tl;dr I only offered my opinion. You quoted me first. If you disagree then in future please just post and don't quote me if you don't want a direct response.

 

[GBalkam]

@Zutankhamun
No worries. Just didn't want you thinking I was talking out of my .....

*You can exceed the current levels listed in this table. These are the levels that still give you a decent safety margin in case your regulated device malfunctions by not stopping when you release the button, i.e., it “autofires”. Or if your mechanical device’s button breaks, gets stuck on, or is accidentally pressed in your pocket.

When vaping we pulse our batteries. This means they run a lot cooler than they do when discharged continuously. This is why we can use them at current levels higher than the continuous rating. But if you do, be aware that there is a risk of the battery overheating or venting if you use them at current levels much higher than the ones in the table and you have a problem with your device.

 

[Joeteboe]

Hey, stupid question but are you lining the air holes up with the coils? I find arcing to be really unlikely, as those are definitely heat scorch marks. I have a gen 2, the reason I ask is because if the rda is properly lined up (air holes to coils) then there is no way you should be getting those marks on the gas mask logo

Edit*

A .17 build, while yes is exceeding a 25R's 20a continuous, is a safe build to run on an Able. The amperage draw on that build is 21.7a. The 25R is rated for 20a CONTINUOUS. Meaning if you were to drain the battery from full to empty without stopping, that is the safest maximum amp draw. You can check Mooch's chart, you will see the 25R can more than handle a 2-3 second pulse at 21.7a. Also, the Gen 2 510 pin protrudes out far enough to make a clean contact with the battery.

 

[medleypat]

First, I never said "pulse rating". I said we vape by pulsing our mod. In other words, we don't tape the fire button down and suck it like a hookah until the battery goes dead.
As for firing the battery for 2 seconds.. you better be damn good and sure of what the bench and stress tests and internal chemistry of that battery is, before pressing that fire button. Same goes for 10 seconds. Just for example, one person was asking why his battery wouldn't charge on the usb port. Problem was, he was using a 4A flashlight battery, and that usb probably saved his ..... Fire that thing for 2 seconds at 0.25 ohm (roughly, a 20 amp draw) and what do you think will happen? Gotta know them batteries.
Now mind you, I agree about staying within the CDR of the battery, however, going 2 amps over a 20A cdr on a samsung 25R isn't something to panic about. It can handle it, easily. For more info you have to dig deeper into mooches blog and battery info. All the tests are there (Thanks Mooch).
Again, keep in mind there is a lot of information I can't give here. For example, I can't say what build I am using. What is perfectly safe for me, might not be safe for the next person. And there is a lot of information every user has to dig up and learn for them self. See, there is a difference between two 20A 2000Mah batteries. (different brands and types). Me telling someone the difference isn't much good, they need to know where to find it on their own.

Sorry about the pulse rating thing my bad. I do agree mostly with you and yes have done the research but I feel we should recommend to new vapes to stay below the CDR of the batteries until they learn more because I fear someone will read your post and think its fine to push the limits more. Jmo

 

[Zutankhamun]

Sorry about the pulse rating thing my bad. I do agree mostly with you and yes have done the research but I feel we should recommend to new vapes to stay below the CDR of the batteries until they learn more because I fear someone will read your post and think its fine to push the limits more. Jmo

I am still confused here. The thing about not taping the button down is exactly what we are speaking about isn't it?
Thats exactly what a pulse is. So if you pulse your mod, surely you go by a pulse rating?

 

[medleypat]

No because there is so many variables. There is no standard test for how long it is fired to how long it is rested. Heat is what kills a battery so if you take a battery and fire it for 2 seconds and let it rest for 10 seconds would have a decent pulse rating but if you took that same battery and fired it for 10 seconds and let it rest for 2 seconds would have a bad pulse rating. The only way pulse ratings would have any bearing is if you know how they tested it then might have some bearing.

 

[Zutankhamun]

yeah agreed, but it's like it's either used within the parameters of cdr or it's not...

If it's not, it automatically becomes built to within pulse specs.

And if you work with pulse specs that's when all of these on/off firing variables come into play.

I agree partly with you though and why would you advise a total newb to practice this way?

 

[GBalkam]

I am still confused here. The thing about not taping the button down is exactly what we are speaking about isn't it?
Thats exactly what a pulse is. So if you pulse your mod, surely you go by a pulse rating?

Actually, you never, ever, ever go by the pulse rating. There is no defined value for a pulse. One second? Two seconds? 10 seconds? It could be anything. The user defines the pulse of the battery by the resistance of the coil. In other words, it will pulse at whatever you tell it to pulse at.

It is up to you to know how long the pulse is going to be, how fast the battery heats up when pulsed, the chemical make up of the battery.. Eg, will it pop if pulsed at X amps for Y seconds. To know how low a resistance can be used before the battery goes into a thermal run. How long you are going to be firing at XAmps and how fast the battery will heat up at XAmps.

Now, about taping the button.. Don't think that just because you are within the CDR that you are safe. A battery heats up when you pass current through it. CDR or no CDR, it is still heating up. So you can fire a 20A CDR battery at 18 amps, or 20 amps or 22 amps, and it still heats up. What you need to know is, how long it takes and how hot it will get. There is an actual graph in Mooches Blog about this. But anyway, lets use this example, and these numbers are ONLY for example.. 20A CDR. discharged at 20 Amps, might take 5 minutes to fully discharge and reach a temperature of 70F. Discharged at 18 Amps, might take 5 minutes and 30 seconds and reach a temperature of 68F, and Discharged at 22 Amps, might take 4 minutes 30 seconds and reach a temp of 72F. The problem comes, when you discharge the 20A battery at a rate that brings it up over 100F before it completely discharges. And there is why we don't use a pulse rating. How fast does a 20A battery, Discharged at 35A (pulse rating) take to heat up past 100F or will it discharge fully before reaching 100F. 100F is the safety cap Mooch uses for his testing. And of course, the hotter a battery gets, the faster it heats up. The problem comes, when you pulse a battery at such a high rate that it heats up faster than you can react and it heats to over 100F.

Now lets say you are some vape fiend and vape 1 puff every 10 seconds for 60 seconds. Is it safe to do this at 20A on a 20A CDR battery? NO. Is it reasonably safe? Yes. Is it safe to do this at 18 amps on a 20 amp CDR.. NO.. Is it reasonably safe? Yes. Is it safe to do it at 22 amps on a 20 amp CDR, NO.. is it resonably safe.. YES. Why? Because at all 3 levels, the battery temperature will never exceed 100F. So here is the big thing, if your fire button sticks, How long does it take at 18, 20, 22 amps to either drain out the battery or heat it past 100F where it runs the risk of venting? The other factor, is the chemistry of the battery.. does the chemistry allow the battery to heat faster than the venting gas can be dissipated? In a cheap battery, the answer is yes, and the battery pops, just like a balloon. In a good, high quality battery, such as Sony, Samsung and LG that we all recommend, the answer is no. Gas is vented before it can build enough pressure to go POP.

Now I will not tell anyone what is 100% safe for them to build at. That doesn't exist. Anyone that thinks it does is a fool. What I can say, is that if you have a 20A battery, and it is running at 22A then it is still reasonably safe. In other words, it won't vent or blow up under normal conditions. Remember here, I did not TELL you to run it at 22A, I said you COULD run it at 22A and still be within a reasonable safety margin.

Now as to the What IFs.. it is the users responsibility to avoid the What ifs. What if.. the end of your coil stuck to the post and you didnt notice.. and dropped down across the insulator? You avoid this by knowing where the clipped ends are and making sure they aren't inside your deck.
What if.. you fall asleep on the couch with your mod in your pocket.. you avoid this by not sitting on the couch with your mod in your pocket. The more risks you take, the more risk you are at.

What people need to understand, is there is no mechanical mods made by Fisher Price. These are not toys. These are advanced vaping items. There is a risk to using them. And YOU are responsible to limit those risks.
While learning, it is fine to ask questions. IS it safe to run at 22 amps on a 20A battery? NO.. Is it reasonabley safe, Yes. Is it safe to run at 20A on a 20A battery.. NO.. is it reasonably safe.. Yes.

How high can I go safely on a 20A battery.. You Can't. How high can I go and be reasonably safe.. GOOGLE IT or read Moochs blog and find out.

Sorry Zutankhamun, I went a little deeper than why we don't use pulse ratings.